Singapore Military Weaknesses

last SG · 2002-10-14T21:26:42+00:00

leave no man behind... during my ns days my encik used to tell us during exercise, "tough time dun last, tough men do" my encik 2WO chan K H damn garan! he'...

want to know SG

I know that this is a pro-Singapore forum. People discuss about how powerful the SAF is and that the SAF has twice as many planes as both Malaysia and Indonesia combine. Singapore may be a regional power in SEA but surely the SAF have some weaknesses. I mean no countries or armies in the world is perfect. Singapore can't be the best in everything in this regional. May be Malaysia or Indonesia have some military advantages over Singapore. We always talk about how good the SAF is or how hi-tech the SAF is. How about for a change we discuss about lousy the SAF is in an area which the SAF is weak in.

This is just my comment. Please don't get offended. And also please don't flame me. I meant no harm.

NathanG5 SG

so ur a military spy or wat? Laughing

want to know SG

No i'm not. Very Happy

wave SG

discussing weaknesses........

Well, what's your own weaknesses then? Will u discuss it with the public regarding such matters?

YourFather SG

Of course we do have weaknesses. Most glaring of all is that we are a conscript army. Its slightly migitated by the fact that since we are all conscripts, our army's general educational level is much higher than that of others, and thus we are able to absorb what we need to learn faster. However, no matter what, having a consript army which does not live, breathe an army life will always be a disadvantage.
Another disadvantage is our over emphasis on educational levels in the army. I find it hard to accept that there will always be a limit to a soldier's advancement if he's less educationally qualified than others. Also, scholars and bootlickers get a high chance to go to OCS. I'm not saying that scholars should not go to OCS, what I'm saying is that a person should be evaluated not so heavily on his educational level.

(of course this has been stated in "defending the lion city', but upon entering the army, these 2 problems have become quite glaring to me)

Joe Black SG

It really reminds me of the Easy company in the Band of Brothers. The Yale graduate Lt Dike was a scholar who was incompetent during battle resulted in heavy casualty in the battle near the town of Foy. Scholars does not necessary make good officers and leaders.

dkhoo SG

Singapore's weaknesses include the two specified by YourFather. There are others as well:

1. Morale. We are untested in battle, and a conscript army that is unused to hardship. We have no way to see what will happen in a real war. However, Israel is similar in situation to us and fares well in war, so hopefully this will turn out OK. While everyone hates NS, it is another thing entirely when there is a fight for survival.

2. Poor anti-submarine capability. At this point, our Navy's ASW capability is substandard. Our ships are nearly deaf and poorly armed against subsurface threats. We also do not have ASW helicopters to hunt submarines (though the new Endurance ships can carry them). This will hopefully be resolved with the new Lafayette frigates and the acquisition of submarine capability (the new Sjoormens are just for training and evaluation, not war).

3. Light infantry. We are considered to have one of the best light infantry forces in the world. This is probably because most modern armies no longer employ light infantry. Considering that casualties are particularly painful to us since our soldiers are also civilians, we cannot afford to pit flesh against fire. Our infantry forces need some form of body armor and greater mobility (trucks, tracked carriers, jeeps). This will give us a tremendous edge in combat (especially close combat) and improved strategic mobility.

4. AMX13SM1. Our primary tank is now not merely a decrepit dinosaur, it is a moving deathtrap. The new light tank programme had better hurry up. I believe that the new tank should have at least the following capabilities:

A. Stabilized 105mm high velocity gun capable of being elevated for city fighting and with computer assisted targeting. 120mm gun would be even better. Decent number of ready and reserve rounds. Coaxial and commander's MGs.

B. All around protection against 30mm API and all existing LAWs, frontal protection against 105mm HEAT.

C. Mobility at least as great as the Bionix, including the ability to swim.

There are probably more, but these are the problems I can think off of the top of my head. Anyone want to add anything?

Mech^O^GATor SG

The first weakness you describe i utterly agree with your statement singapore conscript army are citizen army being a singaporean we are spoon feeded by our govt.We hardly get to experience the hardship.We will know if we encounter a vital threat.

6/10 will be the result personally graded by me! Very Happy i wouldnt regard RSN ASW capability as poor but moderate.The republic of singapore navy is still consider immature but its going at a faster pace,getting hold the maximum abilities operating and managing
a submarine fleet is much more important then rushing the attack submarines procuement.
Singapore delta frigate(modified La Fayette) till now the selection for ASW torpedo has not been know.
Very Happy

Shotgun SG

I believe that Sg's ASW capabilities is still in its developing stage. And it takes time before we become credible. Come on, we need to train against our sjoormens first rite? We can't possibly train ASW when we don't operate submarines ourself. Everyday go practice against the Indians also not nice.

I suppose Light infantry is still the best option for SG. We are a conscript army, and 2 1/2 years of our lives to be trained as light infantry is actually considered quite fast liao. US 10th Mountain are practically all regulars, and they are a pretty top notch light infantry division. We don't have the luxury to operate more mechanized infantry partly due to costs and terrain constraint. In any case, I still feel light infantry is darned effective in urban ops.

SM1, agreed. The old workhorse is due for retirement. Replacement, on the way. Meanwhile, it will have to do.

want to know SG

Somebody in another forum say that La Fayette has weak air defenses. Is it true or not?

Quote:[the perry and the laf have some amazingly weak air defenses.]

Below is the link:"http://www.centurychina.com/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi/plaboard/?cmd=get&cG=332353033383&zu=333235303337&v=2&gV=0&p="

Joe Black SG

Here is my list:
1. Independent Commander CCITV or Termal Sight that allows the tank to engage in a hunter-killer mode. (very important - this gives the tank the ability to engage multiple targets a lot fasters).

2. optional Spike launchers to be attached to the side of the turret.

3. ability to have add-on armour kit installed quickly on the battlefields.

4. Smoke grenades also act as fragmentation grenade launchers.

5, Passive and active defensive aid including laser and IR detectors and jammers.

Mech^O^GATor SG

Mmmm......Delta Frigate will be armed with 30km Aster 15 definitely evidence comes from Janes defense weekly.Er...i think its equipped with 32 cells Aster launcher.Would you consider the frigate as weak air defense since the MoD said it will be a multirole combatant i guess all defense and attack units of the ship are strength to meet the multi-threat.
Very Happy

Mech^O^GATor SG

A,,,,i heard that these SM1 replacement is in progress the DSTA is assign this task.I thought that Singapore technologies kinetic is using Bionix chassis fitted with 105 mm that is what i heard them some of you out there????? Very Happy

Mech^O^GATor SG

bigballs11 SG

Just to correct a mistake, ours is not Light Infantry, the correct term is Mechanised Light Infantry, BTW the "light" is a bit misleading as our division is actually a heavy conventional combined arms division less the MBT. In operation, order @ divisional level, fight @ brigade level, actual combat @ battalion level.
So in the division, we have 2 brigades of mechanised light infantry, 1 regiment of armour plus support elements like air support (heli/air strike), engineer battalion, artillery battery, signal battalion, recce battalion, MP, DISCOM, special forces like sniper, ranger bla bla bla. Each infantry briagde comprise of 2 battalion of light infantry and 1 battalion of elite guards. These light infantry troops are highly mechanised as they move in 3 tonners, minimorg, landrover, light strike vehicle and motorcycle, equipped with mortar, HMG, AGL, spike ATGM and own organic support elements like engineering, recce etc.

BTW, US Army still have tons of light infantry element, I mean really light infantry operate as national guards, reserve. Just that they are not highly exposed like full-time troopers marine corps, airborne, special forces etc as shown in TV that's all. BTW all these full-time troopers only make up a fraction of the overall US Army size, but they are given the best equipment as they are actively deployed.

Originally posted by dkhoo:
3. Light infantry. We are considered to have one of the best light infantry forces in the world. This is probably because most modern armies no longer employ light infantry. Considering that casualties are particularly painful to us since our soldiers are also civilians, we cannot afford to pit flesh against fire. Our infantry forces need some form of body armor and greater mobility (trucks, tracked carriers, jeeps). This will give us a tremendous edge in combat (especially close combat) and improved strategic mobility.

Shotgun SG

Haha. The 10th mountain is an example of light infantry. And you're right, "light" infantry isnt exactly very light. "Light" means they travel without heavy equipment support, like trucks, jeeps armored vehicles. So whatever gear that is usually stowed in vehicles, well, end up on the soldier's back.

A more accurate term would be... err "leg" infantry.

CX SG

well, the armour has APC, the infantry has LPC Mr. Green Leather Personnel Carrier... its AP mine proof too

wouldn't be doing the hookie pookie near a minefield anytime soon though

YourFather SG

I guess its understandable why Singapore ordered 4 Sjoormen subs instead of 4 of the newer gen subs. Just look at China as the perfect example. Even with their experience in operating SSKs, (with their Mings) they still manage to F* up their Kilos. Heard they busted their Kilo’s batteries so bad they had to go for complete overhaul or something like that. If we have to gain experience, we will definitely make mistakes along the way, and better to make them on cheaper platforms, I guess….

tankee1981 SG

Previously, Joe Black had brought about a new idea(or is it old already?) of the use of the smoke grenade launchers on tanks. He said that we can use the smoke launchers on tanks to fire fragmentation grenades, maybe something like a bigger version of a M203 launcher perhaps? I think this is a great idea! I am a tankee myself and we have frag grenades in our turret for use against entrenched troops by lobbing the grenades into their trenches while on the move. Well I personally never tried that before but I think there will be definitely some problems involved by using this metrhod. One thing is that the person lobbing the grenade will be exposed to enemy fire as he need to get at least half of his body out to throw the grenade. Another factor is that the range and accuracy by throwing is not very good,maybe by using the smoke bomb launchers it will be better accuracy? Please comment.Thanks Smile

CX SG

doesn’t the 40mm AGL already do that quite well?