Singapore At War

last SG · 2000-04-06T04:56:00+00:00

I am newbie, but if I am a president of one country, let's say : Indonesia. And I want to invade SG (let's hope not)... you know ... what is the weakness of...

CenturionMBT SG

Hey,anyway,does anybody know anything about the light tank?So far the only thing i know about it is.......

105mm gun
3 coaxle machine guns
have 3 crew men
either a new design or merely a turret
built on a bionix chassis.

so,what do you think?? Cool

[This message has been edited by CenturionMBT (edited 28 July 2001).]

hardware SG

Tanks at that weight could not allow heavy armour in any sense. Therefore again defeat the purpose of a replacement for AMX-13 and to counter Malaysia's future purchase of T-80s. T-80 has a combat weight of 42,500kg. It's 125mm main gun outranges any 105mm. As it is to our pathetic 75mm was outranged by 100m compared tp Malaysia's scorpian 90mm. A 120mm main gun with a effective range of 3000m, we could blast any malaysian tanks while they are still in Johor.

Centurions are too old and too heavy to match T-80s speed, armour and armament.

MinisterOfDefence SG

but malaysia doesn’t haf any tanks.their ‘armoured’ corps only comprise of armoured vehicles. i watch a video abt the malaysian army. HECK! i can bet tt our NCC cadets are more disciplined n much more capable of doing tinks….toking abt a tank fight wif them…......(UWAHAHAHAHA) yes their scorpion outrabges our 75mm gun…but 1 SAF tank kill is equal 2 at least 3 or 4 MAF ‘ARMOURED VEHICLE’ kill….i cant imagine if singapore ever buy n used MBTs….1 SAF MBT kill 2 10 MAF kill…..

Shotgun SG

LOLZ! They still don't believe that Armored Vehicles should not engage tanks unless they got missiles. They pay dearly if they ever send their units for operations with a coalition task force.

We still do not know what the composites of the M1's Armor. Its known as the Chobham or Burlington Armor package, designed in Burlington England. The British army uses similar armor for their Challengers. The composite material of the Chobham armor is really very interesting. The armor is made in layers, each layer with its molecular strength faced in a different direction. Thus when a round tries to penetrate, it cannot find a simple strength layer to slip through, and will end up trying stuck. However, the exact composites of the armor is still unknown.

As for the merkava, it's armor is basically steel. But it has a very low slope gradient and together with its Blazer reactive armor package, its very hard to kill on the first hit. Its low slope gradient makes it hard to kill even after its reactive armor is blown away.

hardware SG

Whatever Malaysia buys, we MUST buy the best weaponary and hardware to counter. If the LMFs manage to kill even one tank of ours (touch wood!) they win by percentage. Therefore we must make sure 1 SAF MBT SLIGHTLY DAMAGED 2 20 MAF MBTS TOTALLY DESTROYED (With MAF's MBTs crew burned to death and blown to pieces by their own rounds in their steel coffins).

BUY ONLY THE BEST MAIN BATTLE TANKS!!!

GUARDS's LIGHT STRIKE VEHICAL seems pretty exposed to bullets and fragments. I suggest Bullet proved vest for those operating in the LSV. It could increase the survivability of the crew.

Shotgun SG

A sniper could pick off the LSV operators and use our own weapons against us.

FBW SG

Quite correct... M'sia does not own any medium tanks, only the Scorpions (for recce purpose).

The fact of the matter is, M'sia is still in the process of building up its conventional force. The MAF has for much of its history been a counterinsurgency force: the Malayan Emergency of the 50's and 60's; the communist threat in the northern peninsular from the 70's to mid-80's, etc. Tanks are of limited use in COIN ops (as seen in Vietnam), hence the acquisition of wheeled APCs (for mobility and fire support).

Although the threat of insurgency has been neutralised, the decision to acquire medium tanks is an indication that the "northern aggressor" mindset still lingers on. This is because large scale armour ops can best be conducted up north which is less mountainous and less urbanised.

Thus, arguments on the outcome of a conflict between Singapore & Malaysia are moot since the MAF is poised for a northern war. Unless of course, Singapore has her own agenda...

In my opinion, given the uncertainty in respect of potential threat, Malaysia would be better off building a wheeled armour force (similar to the proposed US Mobile Brigade). This force and the Rapid Deployment Force would allow the MAF to quickly respond to any emerging threat.

Your thoughts, please...

tripwire SG

except if the problem is in east malaysia. ehehee..

Able to respond to a threat... does not automaticaly implied able to handle the threat..

Able to respond quickly does not mean they cannot be decieved onto a wild goose chase.

Able to respond does not imply able to hold the line.

For every strategy.. there is a counter-strategy... for every advantages gained from the enemy... an advantage is lost to the enemy.

hardware SG

Right! So beside bullet proved vest, any other ways to enhance survivabilities of these operators?

MinisterOfDefence SG

no machines are invicible in this world.the only way 2 protect the crew of an LSV is 2 keep moving.singapore engineers knew tt singapore cannot afford 2 haf MBT n tt’s y they used light tanks on a huge basis. the most important on the list of credibilty of the tank is speed n agility. Instead of fighting wif firepower, the tanks are more suited 4 hit n run tactics.fire-n4get….bo chee style but very useful..in short,we can’t possibly cover the LSV with sum kind of armour as it defeats the purpose of a rapid deployment force. its the speed of the LSV tt is crucial.we cant possibly haf snipers hitting a soldier in a vechicle travelling at 60km/h….

tripwire SG

The LSV carries SPIKE... this missile have a range of 4 KM or 6 km(bigger version NTD) so... the LSV... dont really chiong in the front... it actually fire from behind the line...

Since the SPIKE is actually a FOGM... the firer can see wat the missile see and change the missile course midway if required. no need to risk it out in the open against enemy snipers. it doesnt even need direct line of fire.... in fact... the commander can fire first and then look for a target... if got juicy target.. take it... IF not... take whatever is available...even a truck also can.

The purpose of putting the SPIKE on the LSV is obvious... the LSV can go to where the tanks cannot go.. it can reach the designated location faster and with the punch to send enemy armour forces packing for the graveyard... sort of like a flying anti-armour lightning strike force.

to strike where the enemy least expect, swiftly, deadly, accurately and without mercy.

when not required... they LSV can be dispersed along the line and help to reinforce the defence line.... but when required... they can be quickly amassed in large number to counter sudden enemy armor strike... anywhere along the line, just in case the apache or CAS is not available in time.

In BUA the LSV could even be used to conduct raid and run strike on enemy forces by making good use of their speed, wheels, small size and firepower.

when needed... it can even be rapid deploy by helo or para drop from C-130.

Shotgun SG

SOunds only logical. If they LSV was using some wire guided or laser guided missile, it would be a sitting Duck.

I feel that a wheeled armored force has it's credits. Its highly mobile and can move to reinforce fast. However, it functions like a calvary unit, either used in a light rapid assault or a quick defense. It cannot hold or sustain itself in a brawl. That is where MBT's come in. Main battle tanks are able to sustain heavy hits and walk away with it. A wheeled armored force cannot do so simply because it cannot pack the amount of armor on wheels! Unless a there is a break thru in armor technology, that is light enuff and strong enuff.

m113apc SG

yah,there is definitely a need for wheel armoured vehicles,the v-150 and v200 are already so outdated already ,i am surprise that the army is still using them for air defence....well its a gd idea i suppose as the weapon is mounted on top of the vehicle,donnit to move around that much...

the new vehicle st is developing looks just like a mock up,eg no engine or weapon system on it,wonder how good it is??any fellows ouut there know anything else abt it??

MinisterOfDefence SG

singapore once considered the BRADLEY 4 its armoured force but dunno y they reject it…..but singapore should now really concentrate on 3 tinks 2 buy….Multiple launch rocket system,MBTs n new fighters 2 reapce the old 1s

Shotgun SG

MLRS is dangerous. Really. If we get them, malaysia would try to get something with equal range. That would be VERY dangerous. The thing about it is that, you can’t intercept rockets in flight. Not conventional rockets used by MLRS, even if both sides have it, there will be significant damage to both Civillians and infrastructures.

wave SG

Understand about your concern regarding S'pore getting MLRS. Unfortunately, Malaysia have already ordered such weapon from Brazil since late last year.... That is what i read from the local newspaper.

So i personally feel that S'pore will be at great disadvantage if there's MLRS targetting at us...& if we don't have anything similar to point back to them.

In fact the SAF have already done some studies regarding the purchasing of MLRS back in the early 1990s. But the plan was dropped because it was unlikely that the government will approved the purchasing of such weapon then. That's what i read from the book "Defending the lion city".

Below is an article from the Malaysia's newspaper "The New Straits Times", dated 27th November 2000:
----------

Title of article : "Artillery guns, rocket system for our army"

KUALA LUMPUR, Sun. - The army has bought military hardware worth RM977.36 million (US$257.2 million) from South Africa and Brazil, including 22 155mm G5 medium-range artillery guns from the former.

The contract for the medium-range guns costing RM185.44 million was signed on Wednesday while the deal for the purchase of 18 Brazilian-made Astros II multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) was signed on Friday.

The signing of both contracts came after months of evaluation by the armed forces from a host of other offers.

The army's modernisation programme took a back seat in the 1990s when the Royal Malaysian Air Force and Royal Malaysian Navy took a large chunk of the budget.

In announcing this recently, Deputy Defence Minister Datuk Shafie Apdal said the entire package of the MLRS would be delivered within the next 20 months, while the G5 artillery guns would be delivered in stages, with the first batch expected within the next 12 months.

He said the purchase was part of the ongoing process to modernise the armed forces.

"As our military procurement exercise was shelved during the economic downturn in the 1990s, we feel that the time now is right to commence with this exercise."

He said this after holding a discussion with New Zealand air force chief Air Vice-Marshall D.M. Hamilton at his office in Wisma Pertahanan.

Hamilton, on his first visit to the ministry, also called on air force chief Jen Tan Sri Ahmad Saruji Che Rose.

Capable of achieving a maximum range of 90km, the four-tube truck- mounted Astros II MLRS is currently in operation in Brazil, Croatia, Iraq, Libya, Qatar and Saudi Arabia.

The system, to be used by the air artillery unit, has three types of warheads - high explosive incendiary, anti-personnel and anti- material mine deployment, and airfield denial munitions capable of penetrating up to 400mm of reinforced concrete.

With the purchase, Malaysia becomes only the second Southeast Asian country to operate an MLRS system, the other being Thailand, which operates the system produced by Norinco of China.

The G5 155mm medium-range artillery guns are capable of hitting a target up to 39km away.

Emphasising that the procurement was not aimed at creating an arms race or to intimidate other countries, Shafie said it was to modernise the army.

"Other countries should not be unduly worried as this exercise is part of an ongoing process to establish a credible force with sufficient deterrent power, not for aggression.

"We feel that the time has come for us to modernise our force, and this is what we are doing."

On his meeting with Hamilton, Shafie said both parties touched on various matters pertaining to bilateral military issues, including joint training and exercises.

"I am happy to say that our relations with New Zealand have been good, by virtue of us being a member of the Five-Power Defence Arrangement pact."

Besides New Zealand and Malaysia, the other FPDA member countries are Singapore, Australia and the United Kingdom.

Caption: Field artillery ... The army is expected to take delivery of its first South African made G5 155mm guns within the next 12 months.; More fire power ... Malaysia will be the second country in Southeast Asia, after Thailand, to operate an MLRS system with the purchase of the Brazilian made Astros II MLRS.; Renewing friendship ... Hamilton exchanges mementos with Shafie at Wisma Pertahanan.

m113apc SG

lets me put it this way...lets not be too surprise if we already have some mlrs system in place already,maybe our guys are already training on it,someplace,somewhere....

come on guys,this is the spore army we are talking abt,just by reading all our posts you would have realised that thats the way our army purchase their weapon...test secretly,purchase them,train the users,then after 3 -4 years ,announce in the straits time,that,ya,spore just bought some new weapons system...eg the Igla is a gd example

and even if have not purchase them yet,dont worry,they will eventually noy that malaysia has bought them.and the gd news,u can bet our mlrs would be much better thantheir brasilian system

F-14 Tomcat SG

u all seem 2 b saying singapore was about 2 hav a war soon.

[This message has been edited by F-14 Tomcat (edited 02 August 2001).]

F-14 Tomcat SG

By the way, toking about tanks. Hav any1 heard about tank plinking method. If yes, izzit possible 4 singapore 2 carry out this stragedy? Oso, there is 2 much problems which we hav not thinked b4 if singapore goes 2 war. 2 our soldiers hav the ability 2 remain calm in battle or panic like hell. there r oso many other problem we hav not look into b4. but the main thing is, 2 singapore soldiers can perform as well in wartime as peacetime. This certainly leave a doubt as the SAF has not b tested in combat b4

[This message has been edited by F-14 Tomcat (edited 02 August 2001).]

tripwire SG

the same applies to all the armies around the world... including our neighbours... its easy to march in smart uniform on special occasions... but when the real thing comes.. who knows?? if singapore soldiers might panic.. likewise... malaysian soldier might also panic...(fuck the claim that malaysian soldier was tested in war bullshit, the MCP is nothing compare to the firepower of SAF and fighting when u are in the advantage is definitely not the same when u fight with almost certainty of death)

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