Singapore At War

last SG · 2000-04-06T04:56:00+00:00

I am newbie, but if I am a president of one country, let's say : Indonesia. And I want to invade SG (let's hope not)... you know ... what is the weakness of...

wave SG

It is actually very difficult to determine which aircraft is better, unless the different aircrafts fight each other in a war & the better one will be determine from the kill ratio. For example, the Israeli's F-15 proved itself superior to Syrian's Mig-24 because the former are able to shot down 83 Syrian's fighter, & yet the Israeli had zero F-15 losses from that particular war.

However, there are some modern research done to determine, or at least, to predict, the ability of different aircrafts without having to see them fighting in an actual war. The following are 2 examples:

1) This is what I see from the following website: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-15.htm : "Simulations conducted by British Aerospace and the British Defense Research Agency compared the effectiveness of the F-15C, Rafale, EF-2000, and F-22 against the Russian Su-35 armed with active radar missiles similar to the AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM). The Rafale achieved a 1:1 kill ratio (1 Su-35 destroyed for each Rafale lost). The EF-2000 kill ratio was 4.5:1 while the F-22 achieved a ratio of 10:1. In stark contrast was the F-15C, losing 1.3 Eagles for each Su-35 destroyed."

2) Here are some info obtained from Pioneer Magazine, Apr. 1999 issue : "Studies show that the Eurofighter's only real competitor is the F-22. These studies also indicate that the F-22 can defeat the latest Russian Su-27 Flanker in 91% of beyond-visual-range engagements. The Eurofighter would succeed in 82% while the Rafale would survive in only 50% of such encounters. What is significant, however, is that the Eurofighter is 50% less costly to produce than the F-22."

The above examples may use different methods & opponent aircraft, however, if those research are accurate, it can be predict that EF2000 are overall more superior than Rafale.

Patriotic Tim SG

Sure you all know about the procurement of EF2000 by RSAF in the news paper today. 200+??!!!!!! thats more than the total amount of jets we have in our inventory now! rafale is good, real good. I think there is no need to spend more money on an aircraft that has an additional more hardpoint than the Typhoon, about the same performance. Thats what i think and if you got see the cockpit of the Typhoon before, you will give RSAF a thumbsup for purchasing it and the Newspaper article stated that the BAe (i think so) may allow us to purchase the highly capable Meteor BVRAAM. In this way, we don't have to purchase AMRAAm from U.S, which we don't get to keep in Singapore. The Meteor would be allowed to be kept in Singapore. TTs the good thing. And i read from Asian defense and Deplomacy that Russia is ready to provide Malaysia with a Squadron of 20 Su30MK long-range multi-role fighter. Hahahaha. Now the Malaysians had to keep their profile low as the EF2000 is tracking them. hahahaha.

JUst kiddin Razz

wave SG

something to clarify here…actually the Israeli’s F-15s destroyed mainly the Syrian’s Mig-21 & Mig-23, instead of Mig-24.

horizon SG

So guys, can we have a poll here?....pls state ur preference for RSAF's next fighter....EF2000, Rafale...etc....

Also, does EF2000 have a 2-seat missionised attack variant? The trend is towards 2 seaters for ground attack...Rafale B is already out....

Also, Mirage 2000D/N in Red Flag ex surprised observers/participants with their ECM capability and it was not even used at their full potential for fear of divulging too much....wonder what they'll install in Rafale...

Sorry but i'm going against the grain of thought....i would vote for the Rafale B...whether by capability or looks....i think it does have an edge over the Typhoon...despite what was posted a few messages ago....btw how do they obtain those figures/odds when pitted against the SU-35/37?

wave SG

It should be highlighted that environment factors/threats should also be taken into consideration when anyone were to chose their preference. No point talking about sophistication or product design if the weapon does not suit our requirement. Equally important is that the weapon should be able to effectively counter the best equipments from possible opponents.

I'll vote for EF2000. That should be the most advance fighter that we can possibly purchased. In fact, the EF2000 should actually be more powerful than it is now, because Germany had wanted to save cost & therefore some features were modified. However, the BAE had recently stated that opportunities for upgrading the EF2000 are available if they get the order from S'pore. Can anyone imagine the superiority RSAF would have if it operates upgraded EF2000s which are more powerful than those in Europe?

The missile system is important as well. Rafale is using the Mica, but i don't think it's as good as the Meteor BVRAAM in EF2000.

Another factor to consider is the new aircraft that are likely to threaten us. I think SU-30 is a possibility (if someone really come to the decision in purchasing such offensive weapon). If the studies & simulations done by the western countries are accurate, then the Rafale will not have much advantage over SU-30. In contrast, the EF2000 should be a better choice then.

Shotgun SG

Honestly, in reply to a previous poster. Even if the upgraded F-16C/D could fly as far the F-15E, does it have what it takes to get in and get out? Does it have the capability to withstand battle damage? I have seen reports of F-15Es landing with 1 wing left due to training accidents. The TEWS systems of the F-15E exceeds those of an F-16C/D by far, with the capability to track missile launches 360 degrees, while showing distance and altitude. Imagine that!

I feel that the EF2000 is a great buy. The rafale is after all, older than the EF2000, and I really didn't think the RSAF would purchase planes and then phase them out. The EF2000 is new, and is still developing technologies to further enhanced the aircraft.

Screw the SU-30MK, Russians would prolly sell them dumb malaysians analogue systems again and they would end up paying to upgrade them to digital standards. Even their MiG-29A(upgraded) is no where close to the MiG-29SMT standard. Germany had to upgrade their fleet of MiG-29s after they merged, and fortunately for them, they had the industry and technology to do so.

The Su-30MK is also a large airframe, I'm sure our AWACS would be able to pick them up as the lift off. I'm just wondering if the RSAF would purchase the E-3. The E-2C is like sooooo cramped... crap.

Shotgun SG

hardware SG

Is EF-2000 capable of supercruise without afterburner?

Can anyone provide the comparison of navigation system, electronic warfare suite, defence system, weapon system, Combat take-off run, combat radius, radar's ability and performance between EF-2000, Rafale, Su-30MK and Su-37? In order for our missiles to blow our enemy into hell, the above mentioned capabilities are too important.

Will the Americans sell E-3 to us? They had rejected our purchase for Longbow radars initially if not for Tony Tan. They had not determined us as friends or foes. Singapore and Thailand are US's only true friends in S.E.A.(After the Philipinos chase them out). Although they hate to admit it. I wonder if US offered Singapore to be their Strategic Defence partner?

tripwire SG

lets be frank about thailand.... the americans never considered them as dependable allies... but rather useful in terms of their geopolitical position.

As for singapore... the americans belief is... IF singapore is not my friend... then in view of its strategic location... it must be sent to hell with no mercy.

so clearly.... we arent their strategic partner... we are their strategic key to the far east... if we set ourselves against them... we are dead. if we side the americans too much.. than we are in trouble with alot of country that doesnt like america alot... like japan, korea and needless to say... PRC.

needless to say... america have a knack of making nations bordering strategic sea lanes a partner... like suez canal and panama canal...

Shotgun SG

LoLz. True, we are in a crucial location to for shipping movements. And if we are not friendly to the superpower, we will be wiped off.

The EF2000 is supposed to be faster in terms of combat turns. Not to sure about combat radius, though it can carry 2 1500lb and 1 1000lb fuel tanks to extend its range. However, I do suspect the sukhois being superior in this aspect.

Did Singapore make purchase of Meteors? If so, the Malaysians can kiss their Adder range advantage goodbye. The EF2000 has also the ability to launch cruise missiles, that is the Storm Shadow. Which means while Malaysian Su-30s have to penetrate our airspace to launch, we can simply take off, match bearings and shoot! LOLZ. However, I don't think we will recieve such capabilities as it will seriously upset the already tense situation in SEA.

If the Americans refuse the sell the E-3s to us, then too bad i guess. E-3s would drastically increase early warning capabilities. And if Singapore falls, the waters around here would be one helluva place to park diesels subs, most dangerous of all naval weapons for this kinda enviroment.

Speaking of sea lanes, has the malaysians totally abandoned the idea to cut a canal thru along the Thai Border?

F-14 Tomcat SG

according to the straits times, the BAE company offer to sell the BVRAAM missile 2 us without any restriction and transfer of other technology if we buy their EF2000. If this is really true, den the chances of EF2000 being choose is almost 100 i tink as through this way, singapore can gain alot of advanced weapons instead of a useless airframe like the F-16

YourFather SG

Hello everybody. I'm new to this board, and I'm happy (HUGE UNDERSTATEMENT)to find a place where discussions on Singapore's military capabilities can be held. i discussed this topic with my classmates, and their knowledge of Singapore's military capabilities is about nil, yet they ALWAYS insist that Singapore will lose to Malaysia, citing stupid reasons like "they have sooo many people" etc I got so pissed, and trust me, I was sorely tempted to stick the fork in my hand up their nostrils (Singapore almost had its first incident of high-school killing) ..... all the NE talks were always dismissed as Govt propaganda)..... sigh....
Anyway, in response to an earlier question about whether the Typhoon had a supercruise capability, the answer is yes, at a clean config, it supercruised at M1.2. with 4 semi-recessed AAMs, MAYBE it still supercruise, barely.
As for what Singapore should get, I vote the Typhoon. Why? I believe it will be the 2nd most capable fighter in the world, an all-rounded fighter with slightly more emphasis on A2A combat. the only grub I have with the Eurofighter is its ECR-90 captor radar, which is still mechanically scanned.... however, if Singapore gets the Tranche 3 aircraft, which should be equipped with the AMSAR radar, that will be damn zhai...It will stay the 2nd best, until the JSF comes online. I believe Singapore should get the Eurofighter to replace the A4SUs, and JSF to replace the Falcons, in future.

But then, the other choices are also very interesting... consider the Block 60, with its advanced avionics(definitely on par with the Typhoon, and with its Agile Beam Radar definitely better than the Eurofighter's Captor), getting the Block 60s will reduce our logistical burden.
As for the F-15K, they are REALLY desperate to sell it - U know what i mean if you have been following the South Korean FX fighter program closely... and it is also a closer replacement for the A4SUs, which are strike aircraft. There's no better strike aircraft in the world than the Strike Eagle, which I believe they will offer with the upgraded APG-63V3 AESA version.
As for the F-18E/F Hornet, don't even bother considering it. Why accept a aircraft that is considered an interim model by the USN until the JSF comes online. Its performance is pathetic,( in other international boards, people are dead set against it due to it replacing the great Tomcat and the legendary Intruder when it has the capabilities of neither) and its price is almost 60% more than the F-18C model! Anyway, Malaysia is buying it so its a no-go by default.
As for the Rafale... it looks damn nice, but it is in the Middle-Light weight class, and I heard it has certain defeciencies in its RBE2 passive array, as well as it being under-powered at in hot climates or something like that.......

hardware SG

Should it be Malaysia or Mahathir that dislike US. Japan and South Korea needs US to keep their ass intact.

Once PLA invade Taiwan, at least North Korea will grab hold of this chance to escalate the war and terrorize South Korea. Japan will be pull into the war eventually. Japanese will not be enjoying their Para Para dance for long.

Who knows what Malaysia or Indonesia will do when Americans are busy up north?

tripwire SG

busy sodomising each others ass of course... try to be funny with us.... heheeh... we will make them beg for mercy...

* can somebody drag those FAEs out now so that we can roast some assholes up north?!! *

tripwire SG

pity your friends.... morons deserve our condolences...

tell your friend... technology has advanced so fast and so high.... it takes just a few microbiologist with a laboratory the size of a volleyball court to wipe out the entire population of malaysia and indonesia if you like. in about 3 to 6 months without firing a single shot.

There are weapons that a group of bio-weaponeer microbiologist can conjure up in a lab that will make nuclear bombs a child's toy. they can make the sky freeze over, turn the sea to blood and sent plagues that will destroy a country's economy, military and civilians with a mere flick of a finger.

huge population??? hahahahhaaa...... wat so great about a huge population when they are all sick , having diarrhoea, coughing blood and bed ridden?? hahahaaaa........

the war of the future..... no more soldier, no more tanks, no more combat aircraft, no more carriers, no more guns and bullets... no more missiles and no need god damn useless engineers.....

the out come of the war will be decided by whichever side having the best and most capable microbiologist, biochemist and geneticist.

FUCK the GENERAL. they are no longer needed.

hardware SG

Scary, but it's a good idea.

Malaysia had long been a terrorist or terrorist supporter. No doubt, they have chemical weapons, that's why I had to run beng kang hill breathing through a gas mask. I hope their chemical canisters would rust and break in front of their f..king face.

What do you think of the following, trip.

'Singapore is steaily modernising its armed forces with the help of the United States to secure expanding economic interests in the asia pacific region. As part of Washington's effort to contain through new military allies, Singapore will transition from a small, inert power to one of the principal military players in the asia pacific.'

Global Intellegence update.

YourFather SG

Even they, with their lack of brains, won’t dare to do dabble with biological warfare, and neither should we…. mass civilian casualties in a war is not acceptable now, unlike in WW2….the “CNN effect” will take place, and world condemnation would be too much a price to pay ( just look at the Tiananmen Incident in China, China is still suffering the repurcussions of that incident which occured 10 years ago)

hardware SG

Mahathir the terrible had been fighting the 'CNN effect' since he sodomised Anwar. Terrorist had no concern over killing cilivians. Biological weapons could wipe us out within 7 days, on the other hand Malaysia still have huge population in Sabah. Chemical or biological weapons could be launched with the Brazilian's MLRS. We counter them with MLRS too. SAF must start evaluating and procuring. M270 MLRS self-propelled loader/launcher(SPLL); Lance-Roquettes Multiple(LRM); Raketenwerfer MARS; Raketenwerfer 110 SF 2. are good choice.

tripwire SG

the CNN effect will not happened.

why?? because bacteria and viruses dont carry flags and there is no way to pinpoint the source of a plague...

the reason is simple... such diseases already exist since time immemorial.... so much so that falling sick is part and parcel of life... occassional outbreaks have been also noted to occur naturally like... nipah in malaysia and FMD in singapore.... who can say if nipah might not be a SAF experiment and FMD a malaysian attempt to play tit for tat???

In fact.... the very seriousness of biological warfare cannot be overstated... wars could be waged without a declaration of war... bacterias and viruses could be disseminated into an enemy state with evil intent and there is little that can be done to limit the damage cause by an outbreak...

to deny the existance of biological warfare is to fight the enemy blindfolded... we cannot and should not deny ourselfs the right to such weapons or its defensive measures just becos we hope that the enemy will likewise not develope such a capability as long as we dont do it first... such naive thoughts is as good as saying... if singapore disband SAF.... maybe malaysia will also disband MAF.

the faces of war have changed.... its no longer about electronics, high tech machines and certainly not nukes.... now with diseases and plagues... a nation could be brought to its knees without a single shot, without a single troop.

singapore's huge forex reserves could be used up with just a few outbreaks.

furthermore.... bio-terrorism is a real possibility... for a high dense population center like singapore... the effect would be catastrophic... sadly.... our generals still think about machines and electronics... our SAF scholars get sent overseas to study stupid subjects like engineering and management.

while SAF continue to get more and more funds to buy stupid toys... the MOH is slap with measures to cut cost.... at whose risk??

i feel that either SAF gets its socks up on biology or MOH should be given the task of defending singaporeans' health against such biological weapons, i think MOH should become part of national defense with the same high level profile, commitment and support from the govt just like MINDEF.

Shotgun SG

Hallelujah!! Someone has been enlightened!!

Lolz, sorry, I'm not a fundementalist. Anyway, the fact is, Singapore CANNOT withstand bio-terrorism, nor chemical warfare. How many of our citizens actually knows what the hell biological warfare is, and what the hell is chemical warfare. At our current sorry state, we will probably lose 2/3 of our population, (including NSF and reservists) without knowing why.

Honestly, I can only estimate less than half of us on this forum can guess how difficult, time consuming it is to prepare for an imminent chemical attack. Treating infections is easy enuff, stab the combo pen right in the heart, and done. But how many citizens in Singapore knows what the symptoms of chemical infections are? How many will know what to do?

I like what Trip said about "germs and bacteria don't carry flags." Couldn't help laughing sinisterly. Singapore, hot, humid. Enough strays to become potential carriers of such forms of warfare. Almost perfect for a full scale epidemic. And how many people do you think will know why they died? How many do you think will even know they have been attacked by the most under-handedly method (but effective) known to mankind? Most would think the wrath of God was upon them.

In fact, I almost suspected a recent outbreak not too long ago to be a small scale biological attack directed @ singapore. How many remembers the time when everybody was down and out due to flu, diahoarrea and vomiting?

After all this, how many people would Singapore have lost already? People who are termed by the government as "the nation's most precious resource." Yet why does the Singaporean Government do nothing to educate the us on such dangers? Because they know that is our weakness? So that we will not lose confidence in our security? Is ignorance bliss?

Anyone can say that we are vulnerable to nukes. "Anyone" does not know how expensive it is to maintain nukes. "Anyone" does not know the difference to an overt act of war from a covert attack. "Anyone" should go read up more. Highly reccomended would be "Tom Clancy's Executive Orders" with regards to biological warfare. What makes me shudder is the thought of how cheaply such weapons can be produced.

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