Singapore At War

last SG · 2000-04-06T04:56:00+00:00

I am newbie, but if I am a president of one country, let's say : Indonesia. And I want to invade SG (let's hope not)... you know ... what is the weakness of...

eagle SG

Tha is precisely why Singapore is engaging with economic policies with China, to build ties. As u said, 1% of China's troops is about 10,000, if they come over to assist instead of attacking, we will have enough numbers.

SAF believe in being swift and decisive. What we want to make Singapore into is not an imprenetrable fortress, but a poisonous sting, such that if a country were to attack Singapore, they will suffer much more damage than we do, and eventually lose out to others, which I don't think so in such a competitive and globalised world, a rational head will want to do.

Furthermore, about the atomic bomb, why would a country like China want to use on us? We are too small to be worth being attacked by a nuclear bomb. Malaysia, Indonesia and even Thailand will complain if a nuclear bomb was launched on us. Don't u think that the effects of the nuclear bomb will spread out?

Singapore has a lot of foreign investments within, and its own investments abroad. If Singapore were to be destroyed in a night, then the attacker would have been declaring a war with the whole world! Not only would they have lost billions of dollars, some of their citizens would have perished!

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Why is it that life is so unfair? Sob Sob.

Thunderbird SG

The countries in the region do not have major sealift ability to move the large amount of troops you mentioned.

As for paratroopers, they must fly over SG first. In that, I have faith in our air defences. I would suggest a readup of our radar coverage abilities and airforce strength. =)

On a war footing, the amount and quality of troops we can field is also quite respectable.

Depend on other countries to protect us? The lesson WW2 taught us is that in matters of defence, it's best to rely on oneself.

SG is *NOT* Kuwait! We do not have oil! Otherwise why do us suffer like hell in reservist for?

YourFather SG

Not so. The SU-30MKK sold to China is the downgraded version, whereas the SU-30MKI sold to India is actually MORE capable than the original SU-30 version as it actually has avionics from different origins- France, blah blah blah, as was required by India. They faced integration problems which took almost a year(?) to fix, but now the problems are solved, so i heard. That is one capable plane, and unfortunately, I heard the SU-30MKM offered to Malaysia is based on the SU-30MKI version.
As for the Super Hornet, I am aware they do not have it yet. Heck, even the USN has only 1 squadron of those in operation. However, it has been approved for export to Malaysia. This I'm sure of, and Malaysia has expressed plans to purchase them, with a trade in for their old Hornets. The Super Hornet is not a good close-in fighter, that I agree(less maneuverability than the Hornet C/D), but I am concerned that they will get those SuperHornets with the AESA radar in development for later-production SuperHornets.(initial SuperHornets have the APG-73, same radar as the one in F-18Ds, the version Malaysia has) Also, I believe those SuperHornets Malaysia's buying will come with the ALE-50(or is it ALE-53?) decoy, both of which are pretty good.
Malaysia is as usual, interested in both, and i believe, has plans to acquire both. Both are capable aircraft, and will pose problems for RSAF. Hopefully, this economic crisis will suck their funds dry.

Very often, people without any inkling of military knowledge will quote what LexZeus said, the infamous "look at how many people they have!! They got enuff people to flood us!! cross the ocean and surround us at once! we got absolutely no chance!"concept. No offense, but its all BS. Why?
Simple. How are they going to 'cross the ocean and surround us at once'? Hmmm? swim over? teleport over? fly over? take boat over? Lemme tell you this. They have little to none amphibuous capability. That means that at best, they might just be able to send over a militarily insignificant amount of military assets to invade us. Forget about flying over. They do not have enuff aircraft to send many people over, and even if they tried to paradrop commandos here, they can't, not with our RSAF keeping a constant lookout. We do not buy Hawkeyes for nothing.(If you don't know what that is, please do find out, before saying we cannot defend Singapore)
As for troop number? Surprise! We are actually able to field EVEN MORE soldiers than Malaysia. Our armed forces has 350 000 personnel, compared to Malaysia's 145 000. Granted most of our soldiers are NSmen, but remember: their personnel are made up mostly of people who are, to put it nicely, "got brawn less brain" type, whereas ours include graduates in the ranks.
Next, nuclear bomb? DO YOU KNOW WHAT A NUCLEAR BOMB IS??? To illustrate, lemme give tou a very good quote, "Every bomb is a political bomb, with political motives and political consequences". POLITICAL CONSEQUENCES. If a Nuclear bomb could be used as easily as you said it could be used, then World War 3 would have started with the Cuban Missile Crisis. Why do you think both sides carried so much self-restraint in dealing with each other, Hmmm? Even though Singapore does not have any Nukes to fulfil a MAD(Mutually Assured Destruction) equation, the political consequences of usage of a nuke BY ANY COUNTRY ON ANY COUNTRY WOULD BE TOO SEVERE!!! USA used the nuke on Japan to stop a horrendous war. That is probably the last time it will ever be used. Besides, which of the Nuclear powers have Singapore EVER pissed off??
As for that 'bomb create earthquake'
thing, i will just save my breath(or my hands)
Oei Eagle, Singapore got Foreign investments, but not that much lah! If Singapore were 2B attacked, at most diplomatic pressure will be applied on the attacking party to back off, that's all.

"He who is able to deny the Enemy info, lives. He who is able to gather info on the Enemy, and is able to use it to achive his goals, wins" -YourFather

[This message has been edited by YourFather (edited 29 August 2001).]

eagle SG

Blah blah blah.

SAF is constantly on the watch and recruiting the top talent. I remember that time my dad was saying during one of our NDP that Indonesia and Malaysia were having military operations somewhere that is quite near. We were put on Red Alert. This shows the responsiveness of the SAF. Even if they try to launch a surprise attack, they will be found out before they even reached, and we would have the appropriate counters for it already.

And I think Malaysia has too wide a range of aircraft. I mean, what is the use of having so many different aircraft if she does not have that much funds, knowledge and IQ to train? And there is immobility when the needed pilot is not there, why? Because they cannot operate the other planes.

And the thing is that Malaysia needs a lot of money to train for different types of planes. I think she will be better off if she have the same type of planes. Easier to train and coordinate.

But maybe the money needed was spent on building some useless thing like Port Klang or was embezzled.

And I think their future soldiers may be too lazy to even fight, provided they haf a credible enuff force to whack others by that time. Even Mathair himself said that Malays are too lazy. Lazy pigs.

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Why is it that life is so unfair? Sob Sob.

Thunderbird SG

As for troop number? Surprise! We are actually able to field EVEN MORE soldiers than Malaysia. Our armed forces has 350 000 personnel, compared to Malaysia's 145 000. Granted most of our soldiers are NSmen, but remember: their personnel are made up mostly of people who are, to put it nicely, "got brawn less brain" type, whereas ours include graduates in the ranks.

And I think their future soldiers may be too lazy to even fight, provided they haf a credible enuff force to whack others by that time. Even Mathair himself said that Malays are too lazy. Lazy pigs.

tripwire SG

IF there is anything that nuclear bomb has prove... its that... with advance technology... large and populous nations like CHina and the other superpowers are becoming more and more vulnerable like a small nation.

In the past.... the idea of a small nation holding off huge aggressors seems a very very unlikely situation... since the larger nation have more man, land and resources at their disposal....

In modern times.... It takes one MX( peacekeeper) missile to destroy singapore.... like wise... to destroy malaysia or thailand or indonesia.... needs only one peacekeeper missile as well.

to put it simply.... it will take america one MIRV ICBM to kill singapore with 3 million people.... the same MIRV ICBM can also destroy indonesia with 200 million people. a few well placed MIRV ICBM... and you will see even china goes up in smoke.

in the not too distant future.... a team of microbiologist in a lab... could if required... create a virus that can wipe out an entire race... or the world population.

tripwire SG

I believe your info come from a certain book. Those numbers are estimates the author made. No military will ever reveal the actual amount of troops they have, or their capabilities.

Also the worst danger is to under estimate your opponent, and be blinded by pride. There is always the unknown.

Although I have the upmost trust in our defence capabilities, let's hope we never have to prove it to the world.

[This message has been edited by Thunderbird (edited 29 August 2001).][/B][/QUOTE]

the number of soldiers is not important.. the technology available to the opposing nations do...

with a few well timed epidemic or outbreak... created by bio-weaponeer... even indonesia will collapse.... in fact... even USA would also collapse...

eagle SG

I think the most modern method of warfare may not be missiles as that will most probably incur the wrath of other nations. The most potent method may be to use cyber warfare. Even China has its own team to counter and even counterattack. A well planned cyber attack can bring a country's economy to its knees.

And about missles from US, China or Russia, I think it is highly implausible in the near future. China and US has a lot of good ties with us. However, I agree that we need to take preliminary action in case something unexpected crops up, like the mis-targetting of the China's embassy.

Malaysia may be a little backward in capability, but they have the numbers if they are really bent on attacking us. About China and Indonesia, I mean, there is no link from land. And they don't have the capability to fetch that many at the same time, and I have trust in RSAF to defend against any air attack.

What the hell, I thought we were just talking about neighbouring countries at first, why bring in China and US? China is not so near either.

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Why is it that life is so unfair? Sob Sob.

eagle SG

I think the most modern method of warfare may not be missiles as that will most probably incur the wrath of other nations. The most potent method may be to use cyber warfare. Even China has its own team to counter and even counterattack. A well planned cyber attack can bring a country's economy to its knees.

And about missles from US, China or Russia, I think it is highly implausible in the near future. China and US has a lot of good ties with us. However, I agree that we need to take preliminary action in case something unexpected crops up, like the mis-targetting of the China's embassy.

Malaysia may be a little backward in capability, but they have the numbers if they are really bent on attacking us. About China and Indonesia, I mean, there is no link from land. And they don't have the capability to fetch that many at the same time, and I have trust in RSAF to defend against any air attack.

What the hell, I thought we were just talking about neighbouring countries at first, why bring in China and US? China is not so near either. Unless we want to extend to other countries, which was not the original topic of discussion. Our neighbours certainly do not have enough capability yet to launch a full missile attack

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Why is it that life is so unfair? Sob Sob.

tripwire SG

malaysia dont have the numbers....

first... they dont trust other races... only malays are trusted to handle firearms.

secondly... the east malaysians never liked the west malaysians much... in fact... they loathed the west malaysians so much... i doubt they wanna die for west malaysia... and even if they do... they need to cross the south china sea and that is by no measure... an easy task.

SO... minus the east malaysian out...malaysian population plunged to 12 million.... minus the other races out... malaysian population plunged further to around 5 million....

we have 4 million.... where is the advantage? and.... i wont be surprise if malaysia sends some of its soldier to jaga the cinas... just in case... the malaysian cinas... might be singapore sleepers... waiting for the signal to sabo malaysia in the rear...

horizon SG

don't count on malaysia cinas to help us...
(they'r for themselves only...)
that's one thing i can bet with u on!

Shotgun SG

Malaysia Cinas can be real pain in the asses too. Many of the ignorant but loud mouthed. What a combination.

What i find the most disturbing in this kinda arguement is that most ppl like to bring up nuclear bombs/missiles. "One nuclear bomb and singapore drown liao." or "One nuclear bomb and What singapore?" Yes, 1 nuclear bomb, Singapore will be more or less gone, but, its the same for any of the countries around us. One 120Megaton yield will blow up malaysia too. 1 120 megaton warhead in jarkata would probably see the end of Indonesia as we know it. No country can be nuclear proof, which is why the United States is pursuing its anti-ballistic missile defense. COs even a country as big and advanced as the US is vulnerable to Nuclear weapons.

Speaking of which, even IF indonesia plans on offensive operations against singapore, it won't do anything fancy like paratroops or seaborne platforms carrying troops and tanks. Paratroopers drop from planes, PLANES can be shot down. And I believe RSAF has the ability to attain total air-superiority.

What would be the most interesting though, would be the Indonesian Special forces. Many of them could be in Singapore already, posing as workers in many construction sites. Now imagine that!

eagle SG

That is quite true. But I dun think rite now Indonesia wil do such a thing. They wun haf enuff $$ to maintain an army here. Nor do they haf the capability to ship weapons of destruction here to Singapore. So even if they manage to get some undercover here, wat's the use if they cannot fire back?

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Thomas Edison definition of genius :
"1% inspiration, 99% perspiration"

tripwire SG

I just saw the mahatir poem translated to english on ST..., i think the following is a more appropriate version.

The malaysian chinese remembers
The malaysian chinese remembers
The malaysian chinese remembers
The malaysian chinese remembers.

The malaysian chinese remembers.
That their race was and still is oppressed by the malays. remember their quota system.
The malaysian chinese remembers
That their race was divided by DAP and MCA.

The malaysian chinese remembers.
That their race was bleed during the may 13 riot.
The malaysian chinese remembers.
That their race kenna parang by MAF when they try to stand up.

The malaysian chinese remembers
That their race was and still is second-class
The malaysian chinese remembers
That their race was and still is looked down upon by the malays.

The malaysian chinese remembers.
That their race was used threatened and coerced to accept the NEP.
The malaysian chinese remembers.
That their race was and still is suffering.

The malaysian chinese remembers.
That their race was belittled.
The malaysian chinese remembers
that their race was isolated with no sovereignty, no honor and no freedom under the malay MAF and UMNO/ PAS

The malaysian chinese remembers
The malaysian chinese remembers
The malaysian chinese remembers
The malaysian chinese remembers
The legacy of the ancestors hardwork siphoned off by the malays, the river of blood and pent up fear and anger against the babis.

Remember Remember my race
not to forget so easiy, the bloods debt the malaysian malays owed us.
For your struggles are not over yet.

That maharaja really dont know his race terrible crimes against the chinese.. damn them to hell.

tripwire SG

Well... if anything... mahatir is indeed right about one thing... malays forget easily indeed, at least in his case.

But we must all see this as a ploy of politics... racial politics.

To be frank... i think the malays remembers.. too damn well... mahatirs' KKN and not to mention how quick and mercilessly he shot Anwar down after making full use of the man... the malays are not that forgetful... if my memory serves me well... the malays have a long memory...

but mahatir probably thinks that most of the malays are too dumb and too stupid to see through his ploys... with the poem convert to song... maybe mahatir might actually achieve what he set out to do with that upside down poem...

TO MAKE SURE THAT THE MALAYSIAN MALAYS REMEMBER MAHATIR... HIS 'CONTRIBUTION' and HIS 'SACRIFICE'.... hopefully... this will ensure that his family and him will continue to live a protected live from the next malaysian PM...

With his retiring coming... mahatir must be scared stiff... he fears of becoming suharto the second.

Shotgun SG

In anycase, he has served much to de-stabilise his own country. So much that it has set his country back far behind Singapore. But malaysia is beginning to catch up, and soon, Singapore would find itself in an uncomfortable position once Malaysian economy recovers.

Honestly, I begin to find it hard to see the future of Singapore once Indonesia and Malaysia picks up. Both nations have great potential and resources. Both Muslim Nations. Singapore might find it hard under such pressure to continue to prosper above these nations in the distant future.

YourFather SG

Haha dun worry!! As long as they have the Quota system in place, as long as they have Bumiputra policies in place, as long as those malays up north continue being the lazy malays they are being right now…... We got a chance. Hopefully they will increase the Quota for university entry even higher, and more capable chinese or indians who get pissed with their stupid system immigrate to Singapore. So, all’s left is stupid Malays up north.

tripwire SG

simple... FREE MARKET... under the WTO and FTA with other nation... the key is to make the world our market and source of production.

The indonesians and malaysians too will have to become integrated into the global market OR forever be playing catching up with singapore and the rest of the world.

With globalization of trade... countries will be less inclined towards resolving conflicts through war due to the chain effects and perpetrators would be dealt with most harshly first by the military and then the piranas conglomerates out to exploit a wounded nation sucking it dried.

to benefit fully from free and open trade.. information must be permitted to flow freely. govt controls on censorship and trade protection must be lifted. such move are easier for nations which are smaller and have no specific racial preferential treatment.( aka singapore vs malaysia and indonesia)

Through free transfer of information... religions like islam would be open to challenges from the world opinion and would see its influence curtailed or significantly challenged.

with trade barriers removed... and free flow of goods and manpower... the world becomes borderless and the function of govt will be downgraded to simply regulatory functions. war would be fought between corporations using money and talents.

In time... singapore with its much advance economy, manpower and infrastructure will continue to rise above malaysia and indonesia in certain areas... this is only normal since no countries can be best in everything.

To give an example.... singapore is a small nation in a global economy that is dominated since 1819 by much bigger nations, rich and powerful countries like america, europe and japan... yet it survived and prospered. how much more economically powerful is america , europe and japan compare to indonesia and malaysia in the future??

But it is true that we are beginning to loose some advantage in some areas with regards to geographical location. But with advance telecommunication and transportation.. other opportunities have opened up.

Our survival is not dependent on the failure of our neighbour, we dont parasitize them... our survival depends on us... our link with the world, to be frank... i support the govt drive to move more of our investments further away then just malaysia and indonesia... its never wise to put too many eggs in one or 2 basket.

the threat of globilization is most profound against govt and religion... both instituition aimed to control people through threats of isolation or retribution and force of arms or laws.

RMN-Best SG

hey all singapore sucker…. just heard that malaysia and indonesia have just sign another treaty,... and they will be a major ex holds by indo…. its something like attackin an STUPID SMALL ISLAND which something similar as singapore… hhahahahahah scared??? hahahhaha dont worrie man, we will settle it asap… wont made u guyz suffer so much man…. hummmm just wonder how it look like when our mighter air forces fly past ur sky… hahahha and our mighty tank roll down ur road….. hahahhahahha so remember u sucker… better pay more respect to us… cos, no matter what u guyz try to do, we are always ahead of u guys… hahahahahaha

RMN-Best SG

well say my son,... to all singapore fucker... read this and u will know how small ur stupid country is... 3.5 million!!!! hahahahhah even those DOGS population in Malaysian also more then this man!!! hahahahahha so how can u guys have war with us??? think think think... use ur stupid brain and think....

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