Singapore At War

last SG · 2000-04-06T04:56:00+00:00

I am newbie, but if I am a president of one country, let's say : Indonesia. And I want to invade SG (let's hope not)... you know ... what is the weakness of...

tripwire SG

everytime when people talk about singapore going to war, the first thing that they always ask is where are the food and water going to come from.

I think food and water are not the most important thing in the event that singapore goes to war, simply because water and food can be bought in the international market. the key thing is can the RSN ships keep the sea line of communication (AKA shipping lane) free from enemy attack.

As long as the navy together with the air force can control the shipping lanes to singapore, we can ensure a quick and constant supply of war materials as well as medicine and basic food and water from the international market. While at the same time deny such access by our enemies and force them to run down their reserves especially in spareparts and ground their high tech weapons like warships and warplanes plus ammunition stockpile.

singapore's victory lies in the hand of our navy, it is great to know that our govt have finally awaken to the realization of the importance of warships and have begun to actively upgrading it through the purchase of submarines, MPA, stealth warships and many other project including inviting friendly nations to use our naval base with the purpose of increasing our deterence value. (do anyone think malaysia or even indonesia would dare attack singapore whenever there is a US carrier battle group berthing at CNB??)

War in present terms are no longer between 2 states or between a few states, WAR nowadays are an international and global affair. under such a situation, it is very beneficial to have alot of powerful friend around the world who though may not send troops to your aid, will do what they can to keep your country supplied while making the lives of your enemies difficult through global sanctions.

Lastly, there is nothing to be ashamed about seeking foreign help. there is nothing wrong in such a move, in fact, it will be stupid for anyone to think that they can stand alone in the dark. other then the super powers of the world, every other nations including all of the SEA nations are dependent on super power and first world nations for investment, market, technology, informations and Weapons!!

While it is always comforting to be able to rely on oneself, such as when we develope local defence technology product like FH2000 and SPIKE that is of comparable standard to the best in the world today. WE must realise that our lone effort may not be enough.

IN fact, no SEA nations are capable of producing its own fighter planes!! we are all reliant if not 100% dependent on foreign purchase of such items. so if singapore is too dependent on foreign aids, are not then all of the other SEA nations doing likewise?? how much stronger are they then compare to singapore in truth?? at least singaporeans can repair our own planes though we cannot produce the respective spare parts, while our neighbours have to send their fighter planes to singapore for major repair!!

It matters not how you win a war or deter an enemy. the important thing is you win the war and live to write the history whichever way you like and gets to trample on your enemy's grave. HONOR is meant for the victor PEACE belongs to the dead.

Illegal Operation SG

The strength of the local tabloid lies in the ability to report news which they perceive as newsworthly.

The Singapore airport was recently struck off as the best airport in the world. I don't see it mentioned anywhere.

For every Rambo that emerges from the armed forces, there are a 1000 more lemons.. but we will never see chao keng lemons being featured in the tabloid.

Illegal Operation SG

Why will I attack and ruin a country who has nothing to boost of but its human resources and an economy based largely on investments by MNC?

As death toll rises, I am effectively wiping out the same factor that incites me to launch the attack. Resources..

And that, is what I feel had kept Singapore peaceful.

Illegal Operation SG

If our people do not curb that holier than thou attitude, no amount of defense capabilities will make neighbours less hostile.

tripwire SG

such things happens all around the world in many if not all the nations. which country got a thoudsand rambo and only one lemon??? in fact, it is the rarity of such rambos that makes them newsworthy and given high appraisal.

if everyone is a rambo, then the lemon would be the one on the prime news instead.

u eat vegetable, i eat vegatable, many people eat vegetable, SO....what is so newsworthy about eating vegetable???

the media is use as a gel to glue the people into one nation by presenting selective information to the public. either by projecting a nations success or a national threat.

IN fact, no media is absolutely unbiase and truthfull 100%. even renowned media like TIMEs , NEWSWEEK and CNN plus hundreds of others in the same line has become so obsess with defending their 'free' and 'honest' reputations, that they vehemently deny others from equal opposite representation of their 'media position' by refusing to accept and publish counter-statments even when faced with the undeniable fact that they could be WRONG!.

because, a wrongful media is worthless garbage media. if the media continuously publish a story and then retract the story later when confronted with the truth. WHO is going to buy their media?? who will trust them??

SO for the sake of money and bonus and salary, it is not beyond the possibility of reality that the so call media may be lying for a bowl of rice.

so is this a fault of the media?? obviously NOT, they are like human like us, they need food and water and pay their bills. how can anyone fault them for doing what they feel is a best way to ensure their salary when we do the same ourselves.

WHO says that the media is the champion of freedom and democracy?? these are all pure publicity gimmicks to lure the people into buying their products. the same thing that your local chicken rice store is trying to do by convince you that his chicken rice is the best in the world or maybe his herbal soup can boost your virility.

so whose is at fault?? we lah, the masses and our idealistic idiotic timbuktu logic of the free media being the champion of democracy and freedom and suppressing our inner wisdom by thinking that reporters and all those who work for the media are angels who goes without food, water and money.

SO.... the local media is no less and no more honest or bias if you like when compared against CNN or TIMEs magazine. it is the consumer that must be smart enough to understand the real politik and economic aspect of life.

failing which, no point blaming the local media if you are simply pure dumb.

tripwire SG

WRONG!!! heehee.....

what kept the peace in singapore is real geopolitic, economics and the SAF.

the first is uncontrollable, geopolitic is played across the region and the world in a dangerous dance of giants trampling mad around each other along the dance foor while the small feets scamper around avoiding the falling foots.

the second is limited control, but is subjected to the rise and fall of the power of the unseen hand of free economics.

the last is controllable and is the one and only that can be reliably depended on to stand the ground in the event of the failure of geopolitic and economics.

the value of singapore far exceed its MNCs and world class labour force.

singapore alone with its miserably small GDP or GNP is nothing in the eyes of giant nations.

GENERAL MOTORS makes more money in one year then all singaporeans AND malaysians make in 2 years!! America has many companies the size of GM. so what is so great about singapore or malaysia??

thus to justify our right to survive, singapore and even malaysia or indonesia must prove to the giants that our value went beyond pure economics, money, profit and market in the global game of power, war, politics and idealogy.

THE SAF strengthens singapore govt's hand in representing singapore on the global stage where a country's value in the eyes of superpowers are on the basis of military muscles and money stockpile. IN fact, there are many nations in african which are larger then malaysia, but u dont see the superpowers giving them a damn. becos they are poor and weak.

tripwire SG

wrong. it is not our holier than thou attitude that is causing all these animosity. rather it is the sore red eye infection of jeolousy of our neighbours that is giving rise to the problem.

it is their attitude of i am bigger then u, and statements like 'little red dot' that really *wham* home the message to all singaporeans of the importance of SAF admist a sea of red eye demons.

Illegal Operation SG

The greatest example of a holier than thou attitude is one for which we always think every soul is jealous and long to be like us. Why should I be jealous of a country where the bulk of the population live in pigeon holes and pays through their nose for a car and...(fill in your laments here) if I could own 2 cars that cost as much as a COE, a house with a garden and backyard, and earn enough for me and my family to live comfortably in my country?

If that is true, then Singapore would have been the country with the highest number of migrants. Instead, we have foreign workers who treat our country as nothing more than a stepping stone to let them scale to greater heights. They will leave gracefully the moment our economy shows signs of instability.

Illegal Operation SG

I am sorry, I don't think I grasp your point. Let's put it this way, if we have petroleum gushing out from underground, it makes helluva good sense to want to take over our land.

On the contrary, we don't. Instead, its human resource we boost of. Massacring humans in times of war will bring the nation's economy to ruin. With no economy, no human resource, Singapore is a tiny piece of barren land not worthly of attention.

tripwire SG

The cost of living in singapore is high, that is what u really want to say. there is nothing worth lamenting about the high cost of living, because it is the result of high salary. the wealth effect if u understand economics.

the problem is never the high cost of living but rather the equitable distribution of economic goods and services.

The answer is simple, too much money chasing a limited number of resources within a set geographical boundary. with little land to spare, we live in high rise flats, with little space available, we have to restrict the number of cars on the road.

yet dispite all of this negative points, why did many singaporeans still choose to stay and many migrants knocks on our door?? because of the lure of opportunity, wealth and prospect?

while other countries can boast of cheap car, cheap land, cheap house and lots of cheap stuff if not entirely FREE stuff. why isit that not everyone migrated to this land of utopia? the land of cheap and plenty??

because either the pay is low or the taxation is high, ultimately leading to low disposable income. its not possible to have high salary and low cost of living hand in hand unless u are at the top of the salary scale in the area, another possibility that is possible is in arab nations where the govt can subsidise everything with money pouring out of the oil field.

otherwise, normal logic would see a huge influx of migrants to this land of plenty unless there is a strict restriction against migrants as the presence of migrants automatically increase labor supply and depress wages and the increase in demand for food and basic neccessities push up the cost of living in the form of inflation.

the influx would continue until either a restriction is in place OR when the economy reaches a new level of equilibrium that will see the land of plenty and cheap turning into the land of the scare and expensive like singapore, japan, hongkong and all the metropolis around the world.

jeolousy?? jeolousy give no reason, it has no logic, no understanding and no desire to accept the reality. jeolousy is simply pure non-sensical rage and hate which is usually kindered by a sense of self inferiority complex which leads to fear, then to hate and then to the lost of all logical faculty of the mind.

tell me, did malaysian felt that singaporeans are snobbish, carrying that attitude of i am holier than you attitude, a perception resulted from their own inferiority complex?

or was it from their own perception that singaporeans are not humble or subservient enough toward them in view of singapore's small size vis a vis the other nations.

so was singapore branded snobbish because we are so, or was it because other nations in view of singapore's size do not wish to accord us the equal mutual respect that all sovereign nations deserve?

in short, did we get branded snobbish because we have the pride and courage to demand being respected as equals among all nation irreguardless of our size?

tripwire SG

human resource is singapore's largest resource, but unfortunately nations goes to war not base on economic reasons alone.

singapore's geopolitical strategic location has been in the radar of all superpowers who desire to control the merchant shippings between the pacific and the atlantic.

secondly, nations can goes to war for reasons that borders the realm of insanity if not outright heresy to outsiders but perfectly alright for those in the war irreguardless whether there is economic basis for such a war.

that is why some people call war, madness.

Illegal Operation SG

Educated Singaporean, especially those who worked overseas are leaving at such an alarming rate that our government had to urge them to come back.

The US, Canada and New Zealand ranks among the countries with the highest migrants, not Singapore. Foreign Workers on work permit and migrants are 2 totally different things altogether.

tell me, did malaysian felt that singaporeans are snobbish, carrying that attitude of i am holier than you attitude, a perception resulted from their own inferiority complex?

Singaporeans are indeed a snoobish lot. The way many of our people behaves the moment we stepped on foreign land makes one wonder what we had gained from years of courtesy campaigns. Ask around. Tour operators can spot Singaporeans miles away.

Illegal Operation SG

As much I will like to, I hadn't been able to find instances of countries who went to war for fun yet.

tripwire SG

with respect to brain drain, it is a fact of reality, the reality that singapore being so small in size, could not match USA or canada in terms of opportunity and prospect.

Talents goes to where they can find good opportunity and prospect, they goes where their talents are appreciated and recognized. to that end, singapore still has some distance to go.

BUT it is good to see that, despite our minute size, few countries with the exception of a few super power first world nation like USA and canada can be used as a mirror of our lackings.

so we may not get the best talents in the world becos either we lack the size, opportunity, prospectus, facility or infrastucture. we ARE getting the best talents within the level of our technological ability.

occasionally, some singaporeans prove themselves to be higher in talents than singapore can provide opportunity for, and so they left.

some left becos the bureacratic system in singapore which tends to look down on talents with high qualification and skill by insisting on the value of age old 'experience', the case of the dead log blocking the young aspiring talents.

Our society also have a problem with change, many older workers in management post are reluctant to learn the latest skill and technology and stick to old methodology and retards the country's move to go up the technology ladder.

they fear that changing the system and methods would render their 'experience' worthless or devalue it to the level of new graduates. so they use their power and snub the aspiring talents from revealing their talents.

Such things i believe occurs both in public and private organisation as some talents lamented that they will be put in a straight jacket desk and ask to simply work like an ordinary staff and get their pay. that is not what a talent want.

BUT it is doubtful that this system will change any sooner, even if PM, SM or DPM keep urging for the change, it falls on deaf years of the senior 'experience' workers out of fear of losing their job, recognition or standings among their peers.

the question is how to assuage these 'experience' workers fear so that they will allow the younger talents to move up the ladder quickly and benefit everyone.

the problem is complex, but it generally boils down to lack of trainning opportunity in certain field, lack of standard test accreditation test and lack of recognition of talents and experience workers likewise.

SNOBBISH singaporeans?? sure there are some, but all of them??? surely that cannot be. did u saw a black sheep and simply decided to declare every singaporean as black??

or was it a case of stereotyping by the media who keeps lambasting the negativity image of singaporeans that leads to your assumption that singaporean are snobbish in wat ever they do from going to toilet and the very greetings they give??

was the snobbish attitude a matter of your presumption or believe, or was it a fact??

Is it a case of the succesful being snobbish or was it a case of the poor percieving the successful as snobbish??

tripwire SG

not for FUN. but out of ridiculous ideas like race, religion, culture, ideology, beliefs, fear and emotional hate or simply out of politic, some wars are started out of ancestral hate, lingering war memories of the past, lost of pride, lost of dignity or simply out of self belief that they are the divine chosen ones.

Money dont always figure in a war. believing that others will not attack us as there is nothing to gain from a destroyed singapore is a grave lacking in the understanding of human nature.

rainmaker SG

Let me start off with an Intro about myself.

I'm 26, Singaporean, NSman, Arty Office, a Banker based in London, my Fiancée is a lovely Malaysian beauty, and this is my first time reading through this forum... with much amusement.

Singapore at war will tension in our region ever amount to the shedding of blood between sister nations?

Will Singapore fall are we as strong as we arrogantly insist we are in our military endeavour?

These two issues have been recycled in this forum again and again. and I feel that my two pence .. eerm.. two cents worth could shed light on whats going on behind the scenes.

Let me start off with the question of Singapore being 100% defensible. There have been a lot of speculation about the technology we have in our armed forces. I have been fortunate enough to be given a tour of the facilities which are at our disposal, and I can give you first hand assurance that we are technologically no less superior in our defence system than the USA. Published figures of our defence spending are very much way off the hoof, for political reasons of course, and unless our neighbours decides to drop one on us without a prior 48hrs warning, or should we be caught napping in our regional surveillance, my bet is that we can hold any advances from both ends of the compass simultaneously without breaking so much of a 2.4km sweat. Speaking of surveillance, did I mention that unlike the USA, we have the advantage of proximity which allows us to get the same job done effectively, WITHOUT the need for a Lockheed EP3.

MinDefs policy on our assets procurement, as most high level military men would know, is very simple. Singapore will invest in aspiring technology rendered from across the pacific, and hence as stakeholders, we will always have a share of the yummiest creampuffs. Take our Apaches for instant. While our Straits Times dutifully announces that we are testing a few contractors in our decision to make our purchase of the latest in anti-tank defence, the RSAF have been flying the longbows, test firing hellfire missiles, for half a decade earlier. Why? Because a certain GLC has strategic interest in Boeing corp. Same can be said for our Submarines and the rest of those stuffs in our underground bunker network (or is there such a network??). Singapore is so damn rich it can buy itself into everything and anything it deems worth the while. The MBTs in Taiwan, Australia, the Longbows, Singaporean pilots stepping out of F14s and F15s sporting American insignias (makes you wonder why Singapore needs offensive fighters for), hunter, boxer and our links with country X and Y have long been open secrets. Dummies like us get on online discussion forums divulging all these information to the world but hey, this is also the reason why our neighbours appreciate the situation better in the sense that they know better than to stick their fingers into this skunks arse.

But just for arguments sake, Singapore IS ALWAYS ahead of its neighbours. For every threat, there IS a counter measure and the skilled personnel to operate it.. and unlike our neighbours, we have the financial resources to back ourselves up. Cut our water and food supply, yar right .. Singapore has had 100% 180 days self containment capabilities for the last 10 years running. It sure is going to cost us hell of a lot of cash to get it going, but in times of war, who gives a shit. The regional players have recently decided to dabble into SRSSM and while we dont have any of our own (or do we??), we do have a fully functional missile defence shield up and running (which the USA would be proud of)since the day I ORD. The regional players can keep chalking up the bill on their arsenal but they would be financially drained even before well feel the pinch. Whatever we laymen can conjure up, the top brasses in the MinDef are some 5 steps ahead of us. Just to make you think a little, our defence system does not only comprise of our military hardware. Singapore has adopted a Total Defence approach. Everything, from the directional layout and design of our HDB estates and highways, to our MRT lines have been all planned as part of our keep them out strategy. Keep a look out for these minor details and to any trained military man, it would simply appear all too clear.

My conclusion, with the arrogant spirit of a patriot, Singapore is 100% defendable.. trice over.

However, the greatest asset in our defence system is NOT the multi-billion dollars worth of armoured tanks like the Centurions, M60s, AMX 10p, yada yada yada . but the cream of the crop in our government think tank, that which is much more formidable. The Singaporean government has made a brilliant effort in playing the neutral diplomatic peacemaker with our immediate neighbours. By allowing families to mushroom both sides of the causeway, and shooting off PR status to the brightest and most brilliant of Malaysian, Singapore has inevitable made the Malaysian government think twice about ruffling its own feathers before lifting its hands to strike. Singapore has also invested heavily into the Malaysian domestic economy so much so that its their national interest to maintain a cordial working relationship with us. It is in Malaysias interest to take us in the hands and work as partners, not rivals. We read about scuffles in the national tabloids now and then, but are these issues really important? Singapores policy on issues raised by the Malaysian Media has been very simple. either ignore them, or word in whats seemingly an apology and let the Malaysian politicians have a field day with their electorate. Singapore has subtly supported the ruling coalition party because it knows that the present government, albeit a little noisy (Dr. Ms my hero bless that old fox), is essential the balance of power within the nations in the region, and within the multiracial community on both sides.

As for our friends to the South, Singapore has time and again extended economical and humanitarian help to the extent that they, as a Muslim community, would know better than to bite back at the hand that feeds them. Political leaders have always been known to say things in front of their people to incite support, but behind the scenes, it is the unwritten rule amongst world leaders that these snippets should just be ignored and taken with a pinch of salt.

Thus concludes my thesis that no one has a reason to attack Singapore, hence, there exist no threat of war. So why invest so damn much money in a defence system? Well, for all its worth, Singapores wealth is built on the fact that our foreign partners know that we have the capabilities of protecting their investments and in a cyclical manner, we turn part of their profit into the systems which maintains the peace on our land.

End of the day, I would like to see this forum being turned into something more productive, with aggression and anger channelled into gentlemanly patriotism. Singapore at PEACE.

Peace, Love
The Rainmaker

m113apc SG

good post rainmaker!

Illegal Operation SG

Do I have to choose one of your 2 choices? To convince myself that Singaporeans are indeed successful enough to warrent being a snob. Or do I have to brand anyone else who felt that Singaporeans are a snobbish lot as poor and jealous people?

tripwire SG

NO.... all you have to do is forget what i said and what all the media and everyone one said about singaporean being snobbish.

just take off those stereotype perception in your heart, remove those color lenses and see the singaporeans each and everyone by his true color. use your mind and not your heart when u judge.

dont take others view, you are mature enough to give your own view. your view need not go along or against the general view. just be sure that it is YOUR view.

dont just follow the mindless zombies in declaring SINGAPOREANs as snobbish. but to recognise that within the general population of SINGAPOREANs, there are a wide range of personalities from holitistic to devilish.

Illegal Operation SG

If I toss a rock at a crowd, chances are high that I will hit one who think he is a cut above the rest.

And chances are even higher that he wouldn't admit it but put the blame on the person who perceived him as such. Sound familiar?

If possible, I too wish that I wouldn't be stereotyped when I am away from home. But it takes more than solo effect to change perception of us. Snobbishness is a national trait.

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