developments in the SAF

last SG · 2001-10-29T08:35:00+00:00

Yea, and the US Navy will be the laughing stock of the whole world naval aviators or should I say the whole world military orgnisations. Given that the the U...

moose SG

It's classified,ehehe Very Happy

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Theory Of Relativity
Eating a lot of good food will make 1 hour seem like 5 minutes while eating lotsa horrigible cooked veggies will make 5 minutes seem like 1 hour

Razz ~~~
Playing Diablo 2 Add-on

moose SG

Sure sounds nice,but navy is facing a manpower shortage as it is.If they buy all these ships,there will be no one to man it,ehehe Very Happy

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Theory Of Relativity
Eating a lot of good food will make 1 hour seem like 5 minutes while eating lotsa horrigible cooked veggies will make 5 minutes seem like 1 hour

Razz ~~~
Playing Diablo 2 Add-on

Shotgun SG

Sweet mother of Saddam!!!!!!
Them Leopard A5s are HUGE!! This is Singapore for crying outloud, not Fulda Gap! I'd prefer to have the Israeli M-60Sabra instead. Or maybe even M1A2s. Hehe.

Anyway, I agree with the light tank replacements. The AMX-13SM1s we have now, are nothing but cannon fodder. What I submit for a possible replacement would be a the latest Sheridan light tank. It is armed with a 152mm gun, with almost all the nightfighting gear, CTIV and air transportable. The M8 Buford looks good too.

I'd still prefer 60+ Typhoons over the Rafales.

Joe Black SG

Actually Leo 1 A5 is smaller than M60 Sabra. Leo 1 A5 is only a 40 Tons platform whereas M60 A3/Sabra is at leas 55 Tons. M1A2 is even much bigger in the size of Leo2A5/6.

Perhaps you were thinking I was talking about Leopard 2 instead of Leopard 1

I'd still prefer 60+ Typhoons over the Rafales.

But if you look at the avionics suite, Rafale is acutally more advanced than the Typhoons. One might one to go with the Typhoons only for the fact that they employ US/NATO weapons (eg. AMRAAM) rather than the French made missiles. Then again, Rafale can be easily adopt AMRAAM/Sidewinders combination too.

Shotgun SG

The rafale vs typhoon arguement can go on for ages. BUt my theory is simple, they didnt label the typhoon only being second to the F-22 for nothing.

Joe Black SG

When the French will tell you that the European consortium that builds the Typhoons/EFA are wrong in the sums... the Rafale is better in the area of Avionics, stealth and costs.

You are right, both frames are equally matched. I reckon RSAF should consider Typhoons if they want a fighter whose primary role is air-defence, secondary role is deep-strike/CAS. If they wish to have a fighter that excels in deep penetration strike and can hold its own in air to air combat, then choose the Rafale... Depending on how RSAF sees the role of the Vipers, I think the decision is then fall on the role of the new type of fighters. Then again, perhaps RSAF should just get the Super bugs. It is just as equally good. Maybe wait for the Super bugs to get the new electronic steered phase array radar with Terrain following and Synatic Aperture capabilities rather than the present radar which is essentially the same as the C/D versions.

Shotgun SG

Actually most of the reports I have seen does not really show the Super bug being any much better. Most just agree that they have better avionics over the bugs C/D, as well as slightly extended range. Basically, the Superbugs are less manueverable, and really have less acceleration over the bugs C/D.

[This message has been edited by Shotgun (edited 30 October 2001).]

Joe Black SG

Agreed. However, I think USN and Marines have something in the pipeline to improve the superbugs. I think they are looking at an uprated engines 33,000IB range F404 derivative, and modifying the radar dish to a electronic steered ones over the current the APG-78 mechnical steered dish. As for other capabilites, I saw pictures of the trialled EF-18 E/F or was it designated -G...
Lastly, they are comtemplating also to build a Wild Weasel version.

Given all these different variants over the same frame, that is the reason why I think RSAF should look at the super bugs carefully. Perhaps have a sqn or two as a stop gap for the JSF F35???? Smile

YourFather SG

33,000lb F-414?? where did you get that from?! As for the Wild Weasel version of the F-18, its the EF-18G Growler, now still a concept. The JSF would be a long term replacement for the F-16, I strongly believe.....

Shotgun SG

WOAH, hold your horses. APG-78?! Superbugs don't use APG-78s, APACHE-D's use APG-78. The APG-78 is THE longbow radar.... Are they arming Superbugs with longbowS???

Shotgun SG

Another thing. The US made a serious mistake by even funding the bugs and superbugs when they should have just concentrated on the SuperTomcats. We don't have to make the same mistake of buying Superbugs that will probably expired within 10 years.

Which is why I feel the Typhoon is more likely to win its way into RSAF inventories. It's new, it has great potential.

Joe Black SG

Oops. soorry.. I think its APG-75 rather ... or I must have got my desingation mixed up.... Surprised

Joe Black SG

Oops. soorry.. I think its APG-75 rather ... or I must have got my desingation mixed up....

Joe Black SG

Funny to say that... 'cos USN is going to replace all their Tomcats with the Super bugs.... I think the B+ and D version of Tomcats will remain slightly longer as they do have ground attack capabilities.

Which is why I feel the Typhoon is more likely to win its way into RSAF inventories. It's new, it has great potential.

You are right to say that Typhoon ias more growth potential as they are a truth 4th gen fighters. The Superbugs is more like a updated 3rd gen just like the Block 60 Vipers.

Joe Black SG

Which is why I feel the Typhoon is more likely to win its way into RSAF inventories. It's new, it has great potential.

You are right to say that Typhoon ias more growth potential as they are a truth 4th gen fighters. The Superbugs is more like a updated 3rd gen just like the Block 60 Vipers.

Shotgun SG

Well, when they lose the tomcat D, they are gonna lose all the deep strike capability the USN has. Neither the Hornets or Superhornets can hit the range the Tomcat D currently can. The Superhornet with all its external fuel tanks, can barely match up the Tomcat’s range. Plus it has to refuel mid-air in order to get back. Which was why the USN chose the Bomcat for deep penetration strikes into Bosnia instead of the Superbugs.

YourFather SG

The Demise of the SuperTomcat can be attributed to the lack of Navy funds, and also due to America's current V-P, Dick Cheney. He ordered the Tomcat production line shut down and the equipment destroyed.
When he was Sec of Defense back then, He was also the Senator of (Dunno where) where Boeing production plant was located. Its said that he did that so as to enable Boeing to continue with the SuperHornet, thus Boeings production line in his area of responsibility would be kept open...

Joe Black SG

It is true about the C/D versions bugs, but the Super bugs do have 30% more internal fuel...

As to the use of Bombcats rather than the superbugs... USN hasn't got a operational sqn of Superbugs till last month... I don't think they are yet to be deployed on any aircraft carriers. Bombcats are still the main workhorse for any deep strike penetration stuffs... C/Ds for the tactical strike and CAS roles.... Anyway, the real reasons for the bombcats roles are actually more for the fact that the lost of A6s means that the carriers need something to fill the void. Will have to see how good the Bombcats are in the near future... anyway, the Phoneix capability will definitely be missed when the Tomcats say bye bye to the serivce.

Shotgun SG

Actually, they have a new missile to fill in the Phoenix. Currently it has no nick name, but is designated the AIM-155 FMRAAM.

In any case, the Bomcats still has longer legs than the Superbug, and can hit targets further. Until they think of something to fix that, we'll still see the bomcat hanging around cats of most USN Carriers.

Joe Black SG

Read somewhere that the FMRAAM will have a 200% increase in range... ie about 100 KM?

It is still going fall short of the 150+ KM Phoenix can achieve.

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