SMRT trials MAN double-decker bus

last SG · 2014-09-28T10:05:57+00:00

Now we knew why SMRT only orders 101 Alexander Dennis Enviro 500.I guaranteed this will be a sucessful trial and probably they will order at least 150 units...

SMB1333T SG

851 in need of DDs. I am frequent user rider of 851 and I know hows the loading of passengers is going. I also getting sick of always standing on the bus when going home. Its been 1.5 year I have been waiting for 851 to have DDs. Cannot postpone or what.

yup same here. feedbacked to smrt few months ago but still nothing done..

on top of that it seems to me 851 has been downgraded since last/this monday to 5 bendies.

SMB3095S SG

yup same here. feedbacked to smrt few months ago but still nothing done..

on top of that it seems to me 851 has been downgraded since last/this monday to 5 bendies.

Yes you are right. Furthermore since 851 does not benefitted from BSEP.

SMB3095S SG

Hopefully by mid Oct,there is at least 10 units registered.

Ohh. So 10 MAN A95s units to be registered soon?

TIB868X SG

why is 851 always being downgraded? this fudge and delay in upgrading 851 must stop

randomguy10 SG

Well, with SMRT buying so many SDs, this is probably the after effects being felt now. I guess SMRT only sees the need to upgrade when the SD bus becomes so packed till people cant board. For 851, most of the times, the SDs only have 70% of standee space used up. Bendys usually have very few standees during weekday peak hours from AMK to Little India Area. The bendys are quite well-utilised on weekends between AMK and Little India/Bugis sectors.

Used to take 851 to school as a secondary school student some 12-13 years ago daily. Back then 851 loading was very high and the newly registered bendies were a saviour. But somewhere along the way, 851 seemed to have lost its very high demand and only became moderate demand. And with the service going WAB, alot of bendys were replaced with OCs with an increased frequency. Recently loading has picked up again for people along AMK ave 6 and marymount taking the service to Marymount CCL. But its still not reaching the very high demands of the past. So IMO, this service needs upgrade, but not in dire need yet.

AntiDennisLance SG

why is 851 always being downgraded? this fudge and delay in upgrading 851 must stop

Enough already. 851 must go to SBST now. In fact, all of YIS and SBW shud go to SBST.

BusAnalayzer SG

SMRT totally screwed up 851. Given the long distance passengers have to stand, the loading has kind of tipped down between Marymount and Tiong Bahru. It is still pretty high between Marymount and Yishun but has 852 in parallel.

This way SMRT has killed its own loading on 851 by making people change to other bus services / MRT for travel. I doubt 851 will get DDs anytime soon. They have downgraded so many bendy slots to SDs.. and keep doing that almost every other quarter. Now left with only 6 bendies and so many A22s spammed.

BusAnalayzer SG

I agree that 851 loading has dropped... but it is more because people have gotten frustrated with no seats to sit on long distances... and opted for other options instead. People prefer to stand in MRT than on buses when the distance is long.

Once 851 starts getting more high capacity buses, loading also will improve.

This is also my theory for 857. The DDs are carrying 80-85+ pax on every peak trip, and upto 100-120 pax between YCK road and Yishun. How the hell did SMRT manage without DDs? They just let people choose other modes of transport. Now that people know there are DDs, they take 857 a more direct way from some parts of city to travel to Yishun.

TIB429E SG

But still, that doesn't mean it will affect the ridership bah?

If everyone is pampered with a seat, how is it possible? Liddat we need double decker bendy bus alr

Marvel68 SG

yup same here. feedbacked to smrt few months ago but still nothing done..

on top of that it seems to me 851 has been downgraded since last/this monday to 5 bendies.

I think if 851 is not getting DDs despite feedback there is likelihood that either 5890 or 5891 (or later A95 units) may go 851 if it goes to AMDEP since it is unlikely that it'll get any enviros as there won't by any more pb units registered and 851 has not been touched by BSEP yet. I think that explains why it's taking so long for 851 to get DD upgrade.

carbikebus SG

In my opinion 851 doesnt warrant many high capacity buses.Ideal fleet is 15 OC500LE,9 A95/E500 and 3 A22/Citaro.Full day shift cam deploy 6 DDs while 3 will be on split duties.

854 simply warrant many HC buses,20 A95/E500,7 OC500LE will be nice.

857 need 14 A95/E500,5 A22/OC500LE/Citaro.

Any excess DDs can be deployed to svc like 61,67 and 961.

SMB1333T SG

even on weekends (sundays) 851 has been downgraded from 5 to 3 bendies, and 1 TQ slot (maybe 1 of the 3 bendy) now crossing to 860...

851 is still very crowded in the morning at 6:45 onwards and especially at 7+am, with all rigids completely packed and many people needing to wait for the next bus, but SMRT just simply ignored it... all the 851 bendies continue to cross to services like 856, with the first one only coming at 8+am.

People from marymount thomson etc have switched to SBST's 54 (and im sure some others), which has been upgraded, receiving DDs over the past years

dk how smrt can neglect it like that... (and also strange why no bsep add yet, whereas svcs like 966 are getting adds excessively)

BusAnalayzer SG

even on weekends (sundays) 851 has been downgraded from 5 to 3 bendies, and 1 TQ slot (maybe 1 of the 3 bendy) now crossing to 860...

People from marymount thomson etc have switched to SBST's 54 (and im sure some others), which has been upgraded, receiving DDs over the past years

dk how smrt can neglect it like that... (and also strange why no bsep add yet, whereas svcs like 966 are getting adds excessively)

As I mentioned 851 has lost its loading to a great extent.

1. People are frustrated with the poor service levels on 851 and getting no seat

2. People have moved to other services

3. Along 851s route there are other alternatives available, unlike 857 and 966... hence, those were a higher priority.

carbikebus SG

Wonder if anyone spotted 5889?Wlbp saw about 2-3 new A95s few days ago.

My guess is that SMRT only ordered 30 units while LTA might probably purchased more than 50 units gradually.But looking at their current spacing at the depots,They might retire early those non WAB buses.Right now only WLBP got few spaces.

Wldep/Wlbp might take 60% of the units while Kjdep takes about 25% and the balance might goes to Amdep.

WLDEP/WLBP DD or require DD* service:167*,169,176,184*,187,700,850e,856,857,951e,960

961,962*,963,964,965,966,969,971e* & 980*.

KJDEP DD or require DD* service:61,67,172,176,180*,188,190,700

868,972 & 985.

AMDEP DD or require DD* service:61*,67*,167*,171*,531*,850e*,851*

854,855*,857,860*,961*,980* & 985*.

randomguy10 SG

Although 851 has dropped its number of bendys over the years, i must say the frequency has increased considerably compared to the past. Its quite sad actually, given that 851 was one of the pioneer services to get bendys other than 960 back then. Yes it is true that people have to end up standing on rigids if they are boarding after AMK central. But even if you add DDs to 851, its not going to impact the loading as much as 857 or 966. SMRT has been doing justice to the DDs by deploying them on services like 190, 857, 963, 966, 972 because these are the kind of routes that really utilize DDs well.

For 190, 963, 972, 857 and 966, they are semi-express services and so they provide quick links as an alternative to MRT. But for 851, since it has no express sectors and most of the sectors are served by MRT as well, the load is pretty hard to go up. The uniqueness of this route has dropped over the years due to MRT developments too. Besides DDs are definitely going to push up the runtime for the 851 route compared to the rigids and bendys, eventually making MRT a faster option. So IMO, 851 can stay at similar ratio of SDs and HC buses maybe 3-4 upgrades at most.

BusAnalayzer SG

It is sad but that is how SMRT is thinking as well... and hence the sorry state of 851 today!

TIB1218R SG

SMB5889E on 188
https://youtu.be/xXaKvdQzBaw

201911 SG

Although 851 doesn't have express sectors, it does have many pax who take the svc over a long distance, eg Yishun - AMK/Marymount and AMK/Marymount - Little India/Rochor/Chinatown, who should be willing to go to the upper deck of DDs. I wouldn't say new MRT lines like CCL and DTL duplicate the route and remove its uniqueness, even the upcoming TEL doesn't directly duplicate 851. It's worth noting though that 851's route runs largely parallel to the yet-to-be-built NSE (North South Expressway), from Lentor to Little India/Rochor.

Personally, I think it may be a case of pent up demand like 857, where many potential pax choose to take other svcs instead, especially with other alternative svcs like 852, 54, 166 and 980.

Although dwell times would increase compared to the bendies used currently, 851 goes through quite a lot of city areas which would benefit from the decreased road space taken up, by using DDs instead. Looking at similar non-express SBST svcs from housing estates to the city like 51, 133, 143, 166, I personally think DDs would work, just that SMRT's lack of DDs (relative to SBST) means other svcs get them preferentially.

Marvel68 SG

But somehow I feel 851 will receive any DDs at all given the fact that it has many alternatives available as mentioned above; 852 from Yishun to marymount, 166 from Thomson to Rochor, 33 and 63 from Tiong Bahru to Bugis, 855 from Yishun to Bukit Merah and there is the more popular 857 which plies a much faster route to the city than 851. I think it will receive 1-2 DDs at most if lucky given its moderate demand that may only operate during weekdays like 961 DDs.

SMB145B SG

Personally, I think it may be a case of pent up demand like 857, where many potential pax choose to take other svcs instead, especially with other alternative svcs like 852, 54, 166 and 980.

The future NSE does not allow an entry from Lentor.

DDs on 851 would benefit. It is odd that this svc can go WAB without any high capacity buses that are WAB.

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