SMRT trials MAN double-decker bus

last SG · 2014-09-28T10:05:57+00:00

Now we knew why SMRT only orders 101 Alexander Dennis Enviro 500.I guaranteed this will be a sucessful trial and probably they will order at least 150 units...

TIB 585L SG

I asusume that means the 154 DD took around 7 mins to unload and reload, that is a huge impact on reliability/frequency. Thats also a whole 5 mins longer than the 184.

I forget to add that 154 DD is full to the door when it left, meaning upper deck, lower deck maximise. So u wait for the most of the upper deck to clear with the lower deck pax. Then u got alot of students moving up the DD and occupying the lower deck till it is full to the door

TIB 585L SG

Bendies and DDs have their own pros and cons.
I will use bendies for short/medium haul svcs like 83, 225, 911.
I will use DDs for medium/long haul svcs like 118, 161, 291 etc, where most people typically travel from place to place for 10 minutes or more.
IMO, there should be a mixture of both bendies and DDs.

All expressway svc need DDs

SBS351M SG

Yes, that is the norm for NP/SIM, the students know how to move up, they know all the others are going for classes at the same time. Still with everyone moving up, it still took more than twice as long on a DD than a bendy to do unloading and loading. The 184 bendies are always packed from front door steps to the rear, but are always faster at clearing loads.

TIB 585L SG

Although i saw the tail of the bendy at the main road because everytime 184 n 154/52 DDs come together 184 tends to give space for the bus to overtake 154 and yes it clear faster coz everybody moving to the back although 184 gets full to the door just like 154

SMB128B SG

last time already ask u how many bus stops will have such significant boarding/alighting activities but u cant answer.

you have mention SIM/NP/Clementi Mrt bus stops.. what about other bus stops whereby the whole bus load of paxes will alight and another whole bus load will board? cant find much also, except for some MRT station bus stops (but mostly it is either alighting or boarding, seldom will have whole bus load alighting then another bus load board)

For clementi mrt bus stops, not all bus services have significant boarding /alighting activities also, (maybe 154 some trips/some timing, 184 some trips/some timing)... pls do not tell me that every single trips of 184 bendy will have 100 paxes alighing at the bus stop...

for NP/Sim, if during am peak, mostly will be alighting only. while for afternoon trips, mostly will be boarding (alighting still have, but not the entire bus load).. so basically, the dwelling time should be the same for alighting during AM (or lesser for DDs).. (assuming u have 3 DDs unloading 300 ppl together compare with 2 bendies unloading 200), or if compare boarding activities during PM, 3 DDs will have less dwell time for boarding compare to 2 Bendies...

we still haven compare those bus stops for which 2 DDs can do boarding/alighting, but only one bendy can do boarding/alighting.. (esp for boarding situation only). 2 DDs can board together (assume no alighting) and carry 200 paxes in 3 mins? while one bendy can only carry 100paxes in 3 mins (since only one door for boarding)..

in your example above, you have assume that DDs have double alighting time as compare to Bendies... but in reality, is it really double the time whereby paxes can also alight using front entrance (so 2 exit for DD compare to 3 exit for bendies).

Bendies have its own usefulness, but in Singapore, space is an issue..
to park 300 bendies in a depot, need 50% more space than to park 300 DDs...same go for interchange...

LTA should throw some DDs on those intratown/SMRT feeders to see whether paxes will go upper deck or not since SMRT is now using their MAN A24 on long haul route instead of feeder/intratown...

It is impossible for upper deck to alight from the front when you have all the boarding pax already clogging the entrance/corridor. There.

You also must take into account the walking time for the stairs. It is human nature that walking DOWN a flight of stairs will always be a slow activity since people will take extra precaution (unlike up a stairs or on flat surface).

SMB128B SG

That is the ideal situation, which will never happen in real life, people will still alight from the front stairs. Furthermore, asking passengers from the front of the upper deck to use the rear stairs of the ADL makes unloading even longer, as the passenger will need to walk the whole length of the bus (bearing in mind the bus is longer) to reach the stairs. It will be worse than the current 12m DDs at time taken to clear the load.

I have raised this before by referencing to the trams in HK. When proper infrastructural and operational design has successfully created a singular flow across the tram.

These included programming the card readers, placing seats towards the exit direction (which then requires people to board from behind instead), and deliberately having pax board and alight simultaneously.

Essentially the benefits of alighting from hje entrance is diminished, when the inconvenience outweights the fraction of time one could possible save.

SMB128B SG

But when 67 comes with bendies, it causes more nuisance. Many times its tail is hanging out causing more traffic issues. At same time if 67 bendy stops in middle of bus stop, there is a huge snaking queue.

Clementi MRT bus stop has improved so much after the bendies on 106/189 have gone.

I am surprised no one takes into account how much additional road space bendies take and cause traffic when they don't stop properly at bus stops.

Space would not be a problem for most feeders since most of the stops they ply would not affect other buses as much as trunks. Where did you observe the 67 scenario?

SMB128B SG

I absolutely disagree. DDs on 222 and 291 have a lot of people on upper deck. In fact, 222 DDs from Chai Chee are almost full upper deck. Same for 291 DDs during peak hours. Those taking bus at st 32/33 or st 8183 end up going upper deck.

For that matter, look at one of shortest routes 225G and 225W. They have pax going upper deck. I had posted upper deck full pics of both the services as well. It is just a mindset change in SMRT area, which slowly will improve.

Also, why do you think 13A has DDs deployed even though it is only 2-3 stops from Bishan St 22 to Bishan MRT. It is because people go upper deck and 13A DDs can take in 80-90 pax easily during peak hours.

Indeed.

This was also why 222 takes motherly long to unload. Every single day!

People still think that DD vs bendies is just a matter of doors which is honestly a very shallow way to look at the issue given how on a bendy people could move INTO the bus while others move OUT towards the exit doors (people largely move in the same direction throughout). Instead of having a horizontal human wall that blocks access to not only the upper deck, but also the rest of the lower deck. We are also talking about the FLOW of passengers in determining the layover time for each bus.

TIB429E SG

It's either you create extra length(and might create extra time eventually), or you create extra time(and might create extra length eventually)....

Maybe the answer is to deploy correctly? Not scrapping either one of it. Because eventually, both produces about the same outcome.

You can't change the fact for DD to takeover bendy for feeders/intra-town, because that is purely adding more time than normal svc.

You also can't change the fact for bendy to takeover DD for normal svc, because that is adding more "length" than the normal 12m(which indirectly leads to jam).

Cut the crap about parking space and "1 bendy = 2x 12m buses". 1 would means lesser chance to park, and less prone to accident. Another would means more chance to park, and more prone to accident(sideswipe). So I don't see why can't there be more parking space allocated since our target is always "First World Transport".

carbikebus SG

If LTA interested buying more A24s,Can deploy to those feeders and Airport bound svc..

BusAnalayzer SG

Space would not be a problem for most feeders since most of the stops they ply would not affect other buses as much as trunks. Where did you observe the 67 scenario?

Bedok MRT stop towards Tampines.

BusAnalayzer SG

Indeed.

This was also why 222 takes motherly long to unload. Every single day!

Doesn't matter bro... LTA decision to have bendies out. Will be left with very few island wide. So now going forward discussion will be DD v/s SD.

Also SMRT itself has moved its A24s from feeders to trunks. Most SMRT routes have more SDs spammed than bendies even though they have super high loading. In such case, I prefer that there are DDs instead of spamming SDs.

Formususeonly SG

Guys I am new here but I am following all the updates and news I get from u guys. I have a great news - LTA has just ordered another 122 units of MAN A95 from STK . All chassis will be shipped by the end of 2016 and with complete buses starting to roll out of Gemilang factory early 2017 .

Source MAN website press release -http://www.corporate.man.eu/en/press-and-media/presscenter/The-lion-is-roaring-in-Singapore-263168.html

BusAnalayzer SG

Source MAN website press release -http://www.corporate.man.eu/en/press-and-media/presscenter/The-lion-is-roaring-in-Singapore-263168.html

That's great news. Thank you for sharing the update.

So totally we will have 182 MAN DD buses. Happy to see this as I was getting bored of seeing so many B9TLs. Some variety + the MAN A95s look super awesome.

My favorite DD shape and design by far.

SBS9C SG

Source MAN website press release -http://www.corporate.man.eu/en/press-and-media/presscenter/The-lion-is-roaring-in-Singapore-263168.html

That's nice to hear. Seems like LTA is rounding the purchase to 200 units of A95 in total (1 demo + 16 batch 1 units (earlier source stated 20 but I guess only 16 was acquired in the end) + 60 batch 2 units + 122 batch 3 units + 1 concept). Now I just hope the paint scheme could follow the concept bus/earlier lush green A95s or at least have the windscreen area painted black. It would be nice if they also updated the design to the concept bus style too.

SMB5007J SG

Is it the concept bus? "MAN Truck & Bus and the Malaysian bodybuilder Gemilang developed the new double-deckers for Singapore in close cooperation."

Formususeonly SG

Is it the concept bus? "MAN Truck & Bus and the Malaysian bodybuilder Gemilang developed the new double-deckers for Singapore in close cooperation."

Nope . It's not the MAN DD L 12.8m is the normal DD . Gemilang just use the DD L picture for this news article .

SMB128B SG

One concept?? Why one tho

SMB128B SG

Doesn't matter bro... LTA decision to have bendies out. Will be left with very few island wide. So now going forward discussion will be DD v/s SD.

I still dont see eye to eye with DDs on feeders... LTA had better speed up delivery of concept buses and order a large fleet of those for use on feeders and intratowns...

Then sell those LE B9s (not bought over by GCM) and those trashy B2 B9s (LF ones) to other countries... Malaysia perhaps?

Consider early retirement for CDGE also... Most of them look unfit for another decade of svc anyways

SMB128B SG

Source MAN website press release -http://www.corporate.man.eu/en/press-and-media/presscenter/The-lion-is-roaring-in-Singapore-263168.html

Good good good! More MAN, less rubbish Volvos!

Keep them rolling in!!!

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