i slapped my boyfriend

last SG · 2007-10-20T21:26:10+00:00

After following this 'saga' for so many days did anyone realize that the TS has only posted once in this post and that was just the beginning? Where thereaft...

Michaeled SG

jojobeach...

You're getting WAY out of line and way to personal if you're bringing my parents into it. I won't dwell too long on this since you probably don't mean it. But its not a nice thing to do in any discussion. Rolling Eyes

Thats that. So. I'm not going to personally insult your upbringing or immediate family members, but:

I'm confused with your inconsistency to follow your argument throughout - jojobeach. Are you trying to redefine the word ''oppression''? Isn't oppression an abuse or cruel exercise of strength? And in the case of Myanmar - the general context is still the same as the one YOU were talking about:

Aren't you already implying that an abuser is someone who is in a position of the exercise of strength since he is someone who ABUSE? Unless you're saying that the abuser was never in the position of strength when he is bullying irregardless of how ridiculous that may be. So how is it not essentially the same as in the case of Myanmar?

You arrive at this conclusion with an inference from where?

Our culture is Kiasee and we're proud of it.
A girl will always be blamed for being abused.
We always pacify the situation.

Who said anything about pacifying the situation? Is that your personal opinion or objective substantive? If substantive, can I say that you are just simply putting forth an assumption and generalisation of the entire female gender? Surely you're also saying that we are ALL like that?

Who is the public? Does friends/family members count? If not, how is this relevant to my aforesaid argument? (I said to talk to friends/family NOT the public! Question )

How many cases did have you read of such incident before coming to the conclusion that this must always be so?

Don't bring your emotional baggage with you when dealing with a debate on an objective issue such as whether violence for violence is right or wrong.

Martinwolf SG

mmmm... i think jojo, you have to cut the public some slacks coz it's not fair for you to judge the collective by saying they are inefficient at handling things like BGR abuse or women being the victims. Its easy to say that, but when it comes down to the real thing does violence solve violence? I mean, have you tried asking for help when you were in your position before (sorry if this sounds like a personal question)

just my 2 cents

jojobeach SG

Michaeled,

My apologies if you find it too personal for you. No I have no intention of insulting your parents.

We are talking about a couple's fight. Why do you have to bring in International Politics ?

You want to lump everything together ?

To be honest, the uprising of Myanmar is long overdued.
If it takes violence to end oppressive violence, then so be it.

Freedom is never free.

Martinwolf SG

mmm. Michaeled I agree that Myanmar and general abuse of strength is clearly fundamentally the same but i think there may be better examples (so jojo may understand) to give like: the abuse of children. punching the perpetrator will not solve the underlying issue, which is the cycle of violence in general.

choco B SG

Violence per se is bad

But there is a time for violence .

If a girl ( or guy for that matter) feels that her well-being is being threatened by her partner, if the partner is acting physically aggressive and she feels that she could be in real danger of getting hurt by him, then yes please fight back, and better get first strike if possible. Scratch, punch, kick, whatever. The purpose is to stun him and run - explain and talk later.

All this discourse about how violence is not the answer is all very fine and dandy, but useless if you have already been hit.

On the other hand, if violence is used as an outlet to vent frustration or childish way of manipulation, then that is definitely no-no.

jojobeach SG

In this world, there are good and there are bad.

I don't complain about the good, why would I ?

The thing is, a victim is in a vulnerable position, instead of helping her and encouraging her, and to give her strenght , many people, yes even friends and family included , puts her to the stake and stoned her.

Now in such a society, no wonder too many victims remains in the shadow.
They cry silently in the corner, because too many who offered their righteous hands, slaps her in the face instead.

If you have read my previous post, yes, my retaliation ended his abuse. That is what made me realized I wasn't as helpless or weak as I thought.

When I no longer meekly lets him pull my hair.
When I no longer beg for mercy when he neck lock me.
When I no longer just cry when he pinched my flesh to bruises.

Ito_^ SG

hello.

this thread is not for ur smart arse debaters to show off ur debating skills. Rolling Eyes

can stick to the original topic can anot?

Michaeled SG

It would be personal to everyone, not just for me. Confused Just needed to get that clear.

I agree with you and martinwolf. I shouldn't bring in Myanmar's regional politics into the discussion - but I just wanted to make my point clear. Myanmar oppressing, therefore also abusing their position of power.

The issue with Myanmar is overdue, yes I agree. And forever escalating into greater levels of violence, which is, in my opinion, a case of non-diplomatic and non-peaceful protests to an already violent regime. I respect your difference of opinion, but in my response to the debate, I advocate that violence does not end violence. It escalates it. I am forever concerned with the aftermath and the what-happens-next after the struggle to end violence by using violence.

As I said before, I personally feel the women is often the victim to both mental and physical abuse. This is because the man in a relationship is usually physically stronger, and therefore abusing his position of being capable to cause her harm. Why then violently act against him to escalate the situation further? Women are stronger because I also believe that women are more emotionally stable - less impulsive to resort to violent outburst and acting on impulse. This is why I always see that ANY abusive relationship where physical hurt is caused is wronged by the man. But if the women start doing the same I cannot understand how she is acting wisely or rightly.

Originally posted by jojobeach:
[b]The thing is, a victim is in a vulnerable position, instead of helping her and encouraging her, and to give her strenght , many people, yes even friends and family included , puts her to the stake and stoned her. /b]

I don't think friends or family will forsake her la. At least not always. But there are many other channels to consider that are not only effective, but has strong privacy laws intact: voluntary organisation, social services - at the most extreme - legal intervention. This are just a few of the many ways she could seek help.

And IF and only IF she cannot find help in any of these channels, and violence is the ONLY answer, the very least she could do is ask a male friend to confront the guy (in a non-violent way at first) because I feel if she takes things into her own hands its unlikely abuse will stop.

Martinwolf SG

lol.. i think we are sticking to the original topic. its whether she was right in slapping her boyfriend, ie, whether violence was the appropriate response to verbal threat.

jojobeach SG

Michaeled,

No one can say if the use of violence against violence is right or wrong, wise or unwise.

If the intended act of retaliation results in the end of an abuse.
How can you say it is wrong or unwise ?

There may be many channels for victims, the resources are there, no doubt.
But if you actually talks to victims of abuse, you realize many knows of such resources but are often too afraid or ashamed to use them. Their approach is one fraught with uncertainty and often fear of more retaliation from the abuser.

In our society, there are many who are silent victims, the position we need to adopt is one that encourages and helps draw those people out into the open arms of available help.

When it comes to family/friends not forsaking the victim. My dear, you are living in a much protected environment , I have to assume.

Michaeled SG

I'm really glad it helped you jojobeach, and I am honestly encouraged by you - because society lacks women believing they can stand up for themselves against female abuse and oppression. It works, great. But I just feel its not good advice for someone else who may or may not be in the same position as you. After all, you may not know the extent and aftermath of all these different cases. The safe way (ie other channels for help) is not only wise, but it should be the first outlet for any resolution before taking any other steps. But even then, violence should only be the last of all. (or more ideally, none)

Mitell SG

Court! All remain silent!! Cool

Your boyfriend threatens that he want to pour hot water on you, he is wrong. But you slap him in his face then you also in the wrong. So both of you are wrong, I fine the two of you $10 for the action that you did. Faster come sigh a peace treaty in front of me and then shake hand to makes peace. Smile Smile The treaty that make by me I will charge another $10. Make sure both of you will blind by the treaty you sign else I will call the police then the police will drive police car, pi po pi po come and catch you already ha! ha! ha!

All the uncle and aunty that make noise here will also kana fine $5kekeke!

and dont forget to pay the fines to me okmuahahahaha Very Happy

jojobeach SG

How did you manage to escape from that mental hospital again?

Mitell SG

shh... during the time when the security guard went tea break Mr. Green

jojobeach SG

Thank you for your support, it was many years ago. I've learnt my lessons well.

At the moment of threat, if all you think about is the aftermath, you will end up like me before, worried, scared, afraid of my own safety.

Ofcourse, I would advocate the use of institutionalized assistance, whenever possible.

Do you really expect Petti ( TS) to be dialing the numbers to those hot line and asking them for help, when her BF threatens her with hot water ?

She was acting on instinct. A self protective mechanism embedded in our nature.

Michaeled SG

In whichever case, this statement would refute both our cases.

Oh, how many of them did you talk to?

Its exactly what I meant!

Fear from the retaliation from the abuser.

Which would breed more of such retaliation? Violence or talking to someone? Using violence would breed such fear. or such retaliation from happening. The more she should be afraid of such retaliation if she starts hitting him.

Exactly! Very Happy

Silent victims who can only resort to using violence. Which is why I say she should talk to family/friends/people.

I mean, we want her to open up to people, but at the same time we also want to believe that family/friends would help right? if not whats the use of asking her to come out.

Protected environment? Yes. I respect my family and friends and love them and turn to them for help. I personally know people who've had relationship failure thanks to abuse, but receive help from talking to people.

jojobeach SG

Michaeled,

You are doing selective reading.

I spoke to one too many victim of abuse.

No, if friends and family are such ideal outlet for those victims, then what is the use of institutionalized assistance for ? Victims are not orphans or social outcast ok ?

Yes, thank god you live in a cushy eggshell, most people don't.

Michaeled SG

I understand, in fact, he sort-of deserve it. But she also asked if it was the right thing to do so, and to my mind, its not. What if her boyfriend went ahead and pour hot water on her? After all it might be argued that its in response to violence. She should do something positive about it of course, but something around the regions of a) breaking up, b) letting someone know. Anything acted on impulse is usually not thought-over. Sometimes we just need to control impulsive nature which may or may not cause more problem.

jojobeach SG

You are assuming Petti acts on impulse.

I believe in such situation, people's mind would tend to have assessed the immediate risk factor and initiate the response based on the calculated outcome.
In time of danger, our minds works faster than you would believe.

If Petti's bf is holding a knife, you can bet your life on it, her response would be very different.

choco B SG

It really depends on what was behind the slap

"my boyfriend said he will splash the cup of hot water at my face, and i slapped him. am i wrong? "

Scenario: Did petti slap him because she felt upset and disappointed? Then she is in the wrong.

Scenario: Was boyfriend moving towards the kitchen to get hot water or other dangerous tools while making statement? Then she was doing it in self-preservation, to preempt any harm from coming to her, and the slap is justified. She should have done it to throw bf off, and she should have ran off after that.

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