Do you believe in having pure platonic friendship with the o

eyonx SG

eh ... i find the analogy a bit self-fulfilling.

the pertinent issue isn't with the definition of friendship.
but rather it is the expectations carried by either/both parties into the relationship that will determine where it will go if the expectations are not met.

Tuatau SG

Originally posted by eyonx:
eh ... i find the analogy a bit self-fulfilling.

the pertinent issue isn't with the definition of friendship.
but rather it is the expectations carried by either/both parties into the relationship that will determine where it will go if the expectations are not met.

OK, then. We put aside the definition, and talk about the expectations. So tell us:

Would you still expect yourself or your partner to chat with opposite-sex-best-friends after marriage through the wee hours of the night, assuming you used to do it when you were young? Laughing

alexkusu SG

Its is possible. If the girls are really pretty, and its hard not to fall in love with them, they become my god-sisters…cos once I apply the label ‘sister’ to them, my mind will block all amourous attempts consciously and subconsciously.

Tuatau SG

Originally posted by alexkusu:
Its is possible. If the girls are really pretty, and its hard not to fall in love with them, they become my god-sisters...cos once I apply the label 'sister' to them, my mind will block all amourous attempts consciously and subconsciously.

May I ask why you would want a really pretty girl to be a sister, and not to be a girlfriend?

Is it because you have already seen enough of pretty girls that you now prefer the other camp?

Or is it because you can have many pretty "god-sisters", but can only have one pretty girlfriend? Wink

Besides, do you apply the label 'sister' as well, to the girl friends you consider ugly? That is, assuming that you still want them to be your friends... you probably wouldn't need to, right? Maybe you already treat them as "god-sisters" automatically in your heart without the label?

So really, is the label 'sister' applied to reassure yourself or to reassure the pretty girl friends? Wink

Can you forgive me for asking these silly questions?

eyonx SG

hahah ... looks like the loaded trick question has juz changed packaging :-p
moreover, the expectations that i mention isnt the expect that you made it out to be.
expectations as in being in a relationship with the, explicit or otherwise, intent of being someone more than friend. (sex, marriage or otherwise)

for fun's sake: lets face it. from the scene that u gave, most would answer no. there is just no dispute over the simple fact that most have been there before, most know what the scenario implies.
however whether any answer to the question does imply that opposite sex friends could/couldnt exist is another issue entirely.

if we were to consider for the possibility of platonic relationships using the above,
the question implies that in most cases, friends chat with each other in the dead of the night.
close friends? likely so, platonic ones? contentious.

i would assert, without evidence, that in general one is likely to have more platonic ones than close ones.
ie agree that platonic relations are possible.
perhaps the reality is juz that many people go into a relationship expecting more than they appear to be?

BlueSkyFrog SG

There can be... just not very often.

In fact, the ratio can be worked out as roughly 10:1 relatioships are platonic based.

Of course, the above data is solely MY observation and MAY not be an accurate representation of the society.

Tuatau SG

Originally posted by eyonx:
if we were to consider for the possibility of platonic relationships using the above, the question implies that in most cases, friends chat with each other in the dead of the night. close friends? likely so, platonic ones? contentious.

i would assert, without evidence, that in general one is likely to have more platonic ones than close ones. ie agree that platonic relations are possible.
perhaps the reality is juz that many people go into a relationship expecting more than they appear to be?

Between close opposite-sex friends, there could still exist a platonic relationship, no? Smile

One has known a few girls, single, who have had a boyfriend and a best guy friend -- they are not the same person. In these cases, the girl is very close to both guys, but she insists that the friendship between her and the best friend is strictly platonic. (Whether the best guy friend also thinks the same way or he is just biding his time, only he has the answer.)

So whether or not a friendship is platonic, may not necessarily be dependent on how close the two parties are. That was why one has emphasised on the definition... or rather "expectations " -- in your own words -- both parties carry into the relationship. Mr. Green

Of course we could safely assert, yes without evidence, that it is possible for us to have platonic opposite-sex friends because in this small world we live in, it is inevitable that there would definitely be members of opposite sex in our social circles. If we consider acquaintances on "Hi! Bye" terms as friends as well, it is natural that we would have platonic friends of the opposite sex almost everywhere we go.

However, looking at the thread-starting post, if the friendship did not imply a certain level of closeness or intimacy, why would the poster ask the question then? That's where the rhetorical... or rather "loaded trick question" comes in handy -- to make sure readers would be on the same page as to the level of closeness or intimacy in the supposedly-platonic friendship that one was referring to:

Is it possible to share that kind of intimacy with a platonic close friend of the opposite sex when the person is no longer single and available?

eyonx SG

Originally posted by Tuatau:
Between close opposite-sex friends, there could still exist a platonic relationship, no?
In these cases, the girl is very close to both guys, but she insists that the friendship between her and the best friend is strictly platonic. (Whether the best guy friend also thinks the same way or he is just biding his time, only he has the answer.)

as was my point. but then giving this scenario raises other consideration.
will make head explode one. Very Happy

So whether or not a friendship is platonic, may not necessarily be dependent on how close the two parties are. That was why one has emphasised on the definition... or rather "expectations " -- in your own words -- both parties carry into the relationship. Mr. Green

agreed.

However, looking at the thread-starting post, if the friendship did not imply a certain level of closeness or intimacy, why would the poster ask the question then? That's where the rhetorical... or rather "loaded trick question" comes in handy -- to make sure readers would be on the same page as to the level of closeness or intimacy in the supposedly-platonic friendship that one was referring to:

okays at least now i see where you are coming from.
well ... apparently i took everything at face value. dont have a good reason to do otherwise. it would just involve an insanse amount of telepathy that i am ill-equipped for.
i am begining to suspect that on a certain level we talked past each other sometime in the past :-p

Is it possible to share that kind of intimacy with a platonic close friend of the opposite sex when the person is no longer single and available?

personally, i find the notion of segregating friends interesting.
the fact is that most would differ in how they classify friends(if they do in the first place), to the extent, such that, if used in a normal course of discussion, requires establishment of a common ground before anything fruitful can occur.

for eg.
a friend put people into acquaintances, friends, good friends, best friends.
personally the people i meet are either acquaintances or friends.
one could almost predict that we will talk past each other if no explicit effort was made to understand the terms that we are going to use.

coffeeortea SG

anything’s possible in the 21st century

alexkusu SG

Originally posted by Tuatau:
May I ask why you would want a really pretty girl to be a sister, and not to be a girlfriend?

Hard to answer...maybe cos I dont really know. Its more like keep them close, but not too close.

Is it because you have already seen enough of pretty girls that you now prefer the other camp?

Not the other camp of cause. Value a girl who has internal beauty and perhaps.. 'easy on the eye'.

Or is it because you can have many pretty "god-sisters", but can only have one pretty girlfriend? Wink

Besides, do you apply the label 'sister' as well, to the girl friends you consider ugly? That is, assuming that you still want them to be your friends... you probably wouldn't need to, right? Maybe you already treat them as "god-sisters" automatically in your heart without the label?

They are labelled 'friends' or 'friends of friends' or just 'classmates'. Laughing Now that you mentioned about it...most of my god-sis are pretty eye-catching (from what my friends said)... hmm.. im shallow huh?

So really, is the label 'sister' applied to reassure yourself or to reassure the pretty girl friends? Wink

Both...more like setting boundaries. When my god-sis says Hi, etc to me when Im out with my gf..I will just say "Oh, she is my god-sis...dont worry". Girls can get quite jealous easily... so it works as a reassuring thing as well. Wink

Can you forgive me for asking these silly questions?

Definately. For a small sum of US 50, your forgiven unconditionally Wink

smudgey SG

I agree hence, I stress that both parties of the friendship must have a common understanding of the type of friendship they have... or "Boundaries"

well if my husband really has such a close platonic friend then I won't mind if he still chats with her on the phone... but of course, as time past, ppl's priorities change (that's life)... hence when he get married his proirities must change... it's not unacceptable to chat with a close friend till wee hours but can he do this without neglecting his wife? will he want to neglect his wife, as his friend would you wanna him to just chat with you and neglect his wife?

as for letting my husband meet close gal friends up alone to hang out.... This is the trust issue... if u have no trust in your husband, having him returning to you every night promptly after work will still be no assurance to you. you'll start wondering about his colleagues...whether he's faking is OT... besides in this society... you not only have to worry about the gals snatching your husband away... what if some gay sweeps him off his feet too??? Does this means that he also cannot meet up with his buddies without you present?when will the worrying, suspicion end?

All these relationships must be juggled carefully... he can have a wide variety of friends... but when he neglect his wife, eg. work OT all the time, only time he free, he wants to hangout with his friends instead of his wife, he is just willing his wife to kick a fuss isn't it?

Tuatau SG

Originally posted by smudgey:
well if my husband really has such a close platonic friend then I won't mind if he still chats with her on the phone... but of course, as time past, ppl's priorities change (that's life)... hence when he get married his proirities must change... it's not unacceptable to chat with a close friend till wee hours but can he do this without neglecting his wife? will he want to neglect his wife, as his friend would you wanna him to just chat with you and neglect his wife?

You know, he could still do it... while you are sleeping. So that he wouldn't disturb you and your sweet dreams. Now that wouldn't be neglecting you, right? Mr. Green

Yes, it is good you said you could trust your husband enough to let him hang out with his friends in your absence. However, trusting him to let him hang out with his male buddies for a football game night is one thing. Trusting him enough to let him hang out alone with a woman he claimed to be his close platonic girl friend is another. And how do you know if you could trust the woman?

I agree that trust is essential in any healthy relationship, but it has to be within reasonable limits. You may be an exception, but the "rule" is most women would not feel comfortable knowing their husbands are out alone with another woman, even if they had earlier known that woman to be his close platonic friend. The wife would probably question why the husband had to hang out with the girl friend instead of her? She would probably question why he had to do it with the girl alone? And then she would probably think that he was neglecting her as his wife and was not really that great a husband after all. Finally when these questions become too heavy for whatever bridges of trust she had built with the husband to bear, everything would probably fall crumbling apart and all hell breaks loose.

As mentioned before, in most cases, platonic friendships could exist, but only up till marriage with another party, after which it simply fades away or is reduced to mere "Hi! How are you? Take care. Bye!" acquaintanceship. Why? Because as you've said, priorities must change. Oh yes, indeed. Friendship is now low priority. Even way down lower if the friend is of the opposite sex. You could have been very close with a platonic guy friend, chatting with him to the wee hours when you were both single. But once one or both of you are married, well... "Hi! You know what? I've gotta go. Bye!" *click*

One could continue believing in platonic friendships, but that would probably be the kind of platonic "friendship" one could expect to have by that time.

fluffycloudlady SG

I dont believe there is platonic relationship either. For two persons of different genders to be so comfortable with each other, its quite unbelievable. Either one of them or both of them are lying to themselves. What makes one wants to spend so much time with the other? Definitely becos you care about the other party but is unwilling to admit that that show of concern is affection cos the environment/situation doesnt allow. Thus deceiving themselves that they are platonic friends.

Take drx for eg (no offence), if your so-called platonic fren suddenly give you a pack on the cheek one fine day. Whats your reaction? Shock? Disbelief? Or is it hey, she likes me too? and you have insomnia that night cos thinking about her. Hmmm.maybe you should recount this para to her and reads her body language and you'll know the answer Laughing

Kenashi SG

Laughing

Tuatau SG

Originally posted by fluffycloudlady:
I dont believe there is platonic relationship either. For two persons of different genders to be so comfortable with each other, its quite unbelievable. Either one of them or both of them are lying to themselves. What makes one wants to spend so much time with the other? Definitely becos you care about the other party but is unwilling to admit that that show of concern is affection cos the environment/situation doesnt allow. Thus deceiving themselves that they are platonic friends.

Take drx for eg (no offence), if your so-called platonic fren suddenly give you a pack on the cheek one fine day. Whats your reaction? Shock? Disbelief? Or is it hey, she likes me too? and you have insomnia that night cos thinking about her. Hmmm.maybe you should recount this para to her and reads her body language and you'll know the answer Laughing

Ho ho, your post reminded me of this conversation posted some time ago: Mr. Green

Harry: You realize of course that we could never be friends.
Sally: Why not?
Harry: What I'm saying is - and this is not a come-on in any way, shape or form - is that men and women can't be friends because the sex part always gets in the way.
Sally: That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.
Harry: No you don't.
Sally: Yes I do.
Harry: No you don't.
Sally: Yes I do.
Harry: You only think you do.
Sally: You say I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge?
Harry: No, what I'm saying is they all WANT to have sex with you.
Sally: They do not.
Harry: Do too.
Sally: They do not.
Harry: Do too.
Sally: How do you know?
Harry: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.
Sally: So, you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive?
Harry: No. You pretty much want to nail 'em too.
Sally: What if THEY don't want to have sex with YOU?
Harry: Doesn't matter because the sex thing is already out there so the friendship is ultimately doomed and that is the end of the story.
Sally: Well, I guess we're not going to be friends then.
Harry: I guess not.
Sally: That's too bad. You were the only person I knew in New York.

pinkygal76 SG

BTW..... one of drx "platonic frenz" is now officially his gf ..... Mr. Green
CONGRATS to sugar...... cheers to giving up 2 years of singlehood
for couplehood!!!

smudgey SG

Sigh... it is true that these things you mention always tend to happen... but I believe that friendship is not governed by the amount of time they spend together or the time they spend on the phne... I have close friends I hardly speak to on normal days, but we'll get together on and off and the feeling is the same... the friendship is just as strong... when I'm in trouble i know i can still call them and they'll be there too...

but i do agree most platonic friendship don't survive marriages... but it's the matter if the couple wanna put in the effort to maintain the friendship...

there are things that the couple can do to maintain the friendship... they can go out all together... do things together, that way the platonic friendship is maintained and neither the husband nor the wife is neglected...

but once again such friendship take a lot of work to juggle together with a marriage... hence why most platonic friendship wont survive... I mean when it comes down to it, if you had to choose, which will it be?

tough? yes... impossible? absolutely not.

that's just my opinion... Wink

Delta 5 SG

Congrats to DRX... Smile

making it my habit to congratulate any forumer who find his/her better half...

Cheers!

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