New Service 972 from 17th Nov (Bt Panjang-Orchard Rd)

last SG · 2013-11-12T17:55:30+00:00

Sorry SMB128B. I still don't buy into your explanation. Let me ask you this: Does Tampines not have enough malls, hospitals, schools, buses? If the region i...

Bus Stopping SG

I think one point to clarify here is that BSEP services/enhancements as what SMB128B has mentioned are meant to improve bus connectivity and frequencies.

They are not expected to be profitable (otherwise the bus co. would be operating it and not be labeled as BSEP nor using BSEP equipment). LTA pays SBST and SMRT whatever amount it costs to run the BSEP routes (and enhancements) and all of the fare revenue goes back into the 1.1bil funds, making it profit neutral for both SBST and SMRT.

Since the goal is to improve connectivity, there is no need for any explainations why some of the loads of BSEP services such as 120 do not have sustainable (or breakeven) loads.

The exceptions to this are the CityDirect services which are tendered out to pte bus co. which receives a fixed sum of money for running the routes. These are rather expensive to run since they are not running at cost, but at a profit to the pte co. I believe a fellow forumer previously did an analysis showing that each trip costs nearly $500 to run for CityDirect 651.

SMB128B SG

Ok let's put it this way, when svc 50 was introduced, 163's load took a huge blow. But a question: Was svc 163's fleet touched a single time at any time between the day svc 50 was born, and today? Despite 163's load drop, why aren't some of the DDs being cut? Even its huge load demand at Fernvale are slowly drifting away, though there are other high loading sectors but not comparable to the load it used to exist on 163's Fernvale leg. Why no fleet cut?

Let me tell you another truth of 700A that nobody here has mentioned. During weekends, one of the biggest crowds of people who would be commuting within the city centre would be those going to Suntec/Esplanade from Orchard Rd. There are two services, 36 and 700A that can bring the 50-70 pax load to their destination. Neither of these services have gotten any BSEP add as of now, and not counting 700's add as it does not do 700A. So on what grounds are you to say 700A's load will be affected? It's rigids are seen packed to the door and some even have to wait for bus 36 (which will again be packed), so why will its bendies go?

972 is introduced as a mean to RELIEVE the congestion; not everyone will take 972, they take it at their own convenience. I can tell you, for example residents at BPJ City Centre, they won't want to ride 972 through numerous HDB estates before going onto BLE, correct? If it is meant to IMPROVE, why REVERSE it by taking away 700's bendies? Anyway the buses are paid by the govt what.

As for 700, never underestimate the loading at the office areas. During PM peak, Tanjong Pagar alone receives more than 30 pax, and an additional 30 would board before it crosses over to Raffles City, where more pax would board. As it reaches Orchard, some would alight for dinner, but some who have happened to want to go back to BPJ would want to take the first bus they see, and in this case 700. By the time it departs Ngee Ann city the bus would have been full of standees. I know this becoz I take it sometimes from my friend's office at TP during PM peak with him to Ngee Ann City for dinner.

So what does this show? It's not a must 700 would receive downgrades, I believe it won't for now, not sure when DTL comes in, but for now it should remain as it is.

carbikebus SG

190 should have at least 37 DDs and 3 SDs in future

700 should have 10 DDs 8 SDs

972 8 DDs 6 SDs

971E should operate from 0700-0845/1730-1930

SMB42P SG

today 190 win..was waiting for 307 at LOT 1 stop at around 1.40pm when TIB1034D came. 5 mins later, TIB1119T came and 1 min later, TIB1082P arrived with no pax in bus. Bus skipped Lot 1 stop too as all pax boarded 1119 and 1119 just departed the bus bay...

BusAnalayzer SG

So what does this show? It's not a must 700 would receive downgrades, I believe it won't for now, not sure when DTL comes in, but for now it should remain as it is.

163 AM load still strong. Sv 50 has taken its load from Fernvale to Sengkang MRT but not towards YCK road and Upper Thomson. AM peak still has load of 80+ pax. SD cannot manage this load. PM peak also has 70+ load at ST electronics / Motorolla. If DDs are taken out, it will be huge inconvenience. If the load had really dropped between 50 to 60 pax peak loading, SBST could have considered redeploying DDs to another service. The DDs on 163 are here to stay...

BusAnalayzer SG

190 should have at least 37 DDs and 3 SDs in future

700 should have 10 DDs 8 SDs

972 8 DDs 6 SDs

971E should operate from 0700-0845/1730-1930

You see that happening? I would also add 985 which really needs capacity upgrade.

TIB429E SG

Since there's BSEP 972, can some 190 bendy(max. 3) can deploy to other resources??

SMB128B SG

Finally you got the logic.

700/A has load from CBD/Suntec respectively. So its bendies are here to stay?

972 may have taken its load from BPJ - Orchard , but just two days ago I was cramming on a 700A towards Suntec from Somerset, on a bloody A22.

Yes, you acknowledge the loading had dropped for 163 from Sengkang to Fernvale. But do you know how much load is taken away? SBST would've done something to its fleet long ago, but did they?

Why not? Coz svc 50 belongs to BSEP.

And 972 is BSEP too!

BusAnalayzer SG

Finally you got the logic.

700/A has load from CBD/Suntec respectively. So its bendies are here to stay?

972 may have taken its load from BPJ - Orchard , but just two days ago I was cramming on a 700A towards Suntec from Somerset, on a bloody A22.

Yes, you acknowledge the loading had dropped for 163 from Sengkang to Fernvale. But do you know how much load is taken away? SBST would've done something to its fleet long ago, but did they?

Why not? Coz svc 50 belongs to BSEP.

And 972 is BSEP too!

I got your logic but you did not get mine.

The DDs on 163 are not for the Sengkang side. They are for the Fernvale - YCK Road - Upp Thomson side. Sv 50 does not influence the loading in any of its sector here.

Also don't discount that 163M also still has a good number of pax boarding the bus at Punggol Road - transferring from sv 88, 80, 87 etc here.

BusAnalayzer SG

Since there's BSEP 972, can some 190 bendy(max. 3) can deploy to other resources??

That will not happen. Sv 190 load is here to stay. If loading drops on any service with introduction of 972, it is sv 700. Most people would take LRT/feeder to BPJ Int and change to 700 to city. With 972, they don't need to do that.

SMB128B SG

I got your logic but you did not get mine.

The DDs on 163 are not for the Sengkang side. They are for the Fernvale - YCK Road - Upp Thomson side. Sv 50 does not influence the loading in any of its sector here.

Also don't discount that 163M also still has a good number of pax boarding the bus at Punggol Road - transferring from sv 88, 80, 87 etc here.

Okay fine, I buy your argument.

But you have just explained yourself clear enough why 972 won't affect 700's fleet, in the past few posts, through the use of 163. So what's your view now?

SMB128B SG

If worst comes the worst, 700 can be extended to YT and given fleet add, so as to serve the YT residents while at the same time serve BPJ residents going to CBD/Suntec.

BusAnalayzer SG

Okay fine, I buy your argument.

But you have just explained yourself clear enough why 972 won't affect 700's fleet, in the past few posts, through the use of 163. So what's your view now?

My view is if 700 load goes down, and people prefer taking 190/972 compared to 700, SMRT should give the bendy to 190 and replace it with rigid. Anyway, this is if it happens and is in the future. I suspect the loading to fall.

BusAnalayzer SG

If worst comes the worst, 700 can be extended to YT and given fleet add, so as to serve the YT residents while at the same time serve BPJ residents going to CBD/Suntec.

Yeah we discussed that. It makes the most logical sense to extend 700 to CCK via Woodlands Rd, Yew Tee. This way 700 can gain new customers.

carbikebus SG

Observed when i was chilling at Orchard.190 4 buses in 20 mins frame,1st OC full load but not till front door,2nd Habit also full loads this time till front door,3rd Habit fully seated with probably 10 standees and last MK2 bendy 3/4 loads.972 got 3 buses in 32 mins frame and first two buses all packed to the brim while the last one fully seated with few standees.700 4 buses in 45 mins frame and 1st is A22 packed like sardines,2nd OC fully seated no standees,3rd a Habit half full and last A22 packed also.

BusAnalayzer SG

It is amazing how quickly 972 has become so popular. Clearly shows how much need this area was for another bus.

phillipC SG

now sv 300 tio complain in the chinese evening papers. SMRT operator again!

Probably caused by Shawn Ong who is very active at FB attacking SMRT

phillipC SG

DK really need to buck up

TIB429E SG

now sv 300 tio complain in the chinese evening papers. SMRT operator again!

As heard, 300 wasn't that bad from some of the bus fans. Not quite sure if it's true. And it's by Shawn Ong, the guy whom complained to SMRT/LTA about 190.

BusAnalayzer SG

300 can already be packed to the door when it arrives at CCK Ave 4. If buses are on time, no problem, if there is even 2 min delay, you can see how crowded the bus stops on Ave 4 get because ppl have to leave 1-2 buses to board. The next 2-3 buses will be fine. 302/307 are much better in terms of managing load than 300, hence u see complains on 300 more.

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