Get Real with the 3letter Word

2005wss SG

Seems like so many negative feedback about people who failed in MLM / even people in the forum challenging and threatening others in the forum when someone has a different view. Its always someone else to blame for someones failure or when someone lost money or that the industry wont work...etc,etc ... Instead of continuing the rather lengthy threads in some of the topics here, I decided to start a new one, just to state my opinion which may or may not be interesting to some of you... here it goes....

Has anyone read the latest issue of the free LIFESTYLE magazine given out by NTUC in most housing estate?
It featured a Singapore elderly Indian couple who bought a Beer-made-at-home franchise called High Hops (Page-30)
All in they incurred $150,000 for the business
They may make it big from now or if they fail and give up may they lose everything.
If they lost everything who do you think they will blame? If it didnt work for them, does it mean franchising doesnt work? I like the sub-heading when they said if it works, it works, if it doesnt, it would have been an adventure for us . And that summarises the true spirit of enterprise and calculated risk
So what difference is this adventure and calculated risk in this franchise and MLM?
So, the point is always ask ourself If something didnt work, Is it an individual problem or an industry problem?

Can you now see the similarity with the topic of MLM in this thread. Many complain about someone losing money and all blame it on the 3 letter word , MLM before taking a good look at the mirror first.

Seriously, IMO, if you want to really know every aspect of MLM to succeed, go to the US and Canada (where MLM is a recognised profession, talk to the top networkers and see the world through their eyes.
And then you will know what it takes to make MLM a noble profession.

The trouble I see in the various posting here are people who failed in MLM yet dare to teach others MLM wisdom, or even dare to tell others to get a job instead... etc etc.
This forum should be dedicated to people who want to make a success of MLM as an alternative profession to other trades as a means for a better income or a better quality life. No doubt there will be black sheep and good sheeps... thats another topic but lets all learn the good things to be successful and share.
If MLM is not for you, please put your time to better use at other forum topics, not here.

MLM has been in Singapore only 5 years and what many of you understand MLM from "hearsay", "gossips" and what you read in the internet and books. Talk to successful people not only from Singapore but in US, Canada and Australia or other leading countries (why only listen to those who failed) if you want to do a proper due diligence of the profession and business. Only then will you know what to look for and decide for yourself if there's a match to what the business requires of you and whether you have the qualities for it.
If your friend who failed, doesnt mean the entire MLM is a scam; maybe he didnt have those qualities to do well BUT there are other people with those qualities who has the capacity to do very well in MLM, So dont kill opportunities. Rather, do your due diligence carefully.
With or without your participation, the industry that is thriving for the last 40 years in the US will last for the next 40 years in other countries as well.... cheers to all

laurence82 SG

But by saying these, u are ignoring cleverly disguised scams that make distinctions between real MLM and pyramid schemes blur

Not forgetting there are many badly mismanaged companies that dont really bother abt ethical selling

But the MLM industry in SG has everything to lose, despite the conditions in US or Canada, if it does not work to eradicate scams and emphasise more on ethics in business, or even sought to improve its image.

We can blame consumers and ex agents all we want,if they really do not work hard to achieve their targets and blame on the companies, but they have other choices to go to if they cant make it in MLM, but the company will suffer losses.

I think, on this point, both are mutualy dependent on each other. I think this is the view point we must look if we wish to discuss whose fault it is.

MlmMyBiz SG

People are primarily driven by 'Fear' or 'Greed', in the world of scam especially in MLM, people fall for it because of 'Greed'. Most may excuse themselves as being naive or innocent but I think a great majority jump into it because of the promise of high return in relatively short time.

I also think that most who fall for such scam are people who starts the business with an employee mindset; they want low risk (low or no investment), high returns and instant gratification. Unethical people understand this mentality well, so they resolved to using unethical ways to woo this people, telling them how easy is it for them to earn that amount with little time and money investment. There is big money but no easy money to be earned in MLM; all those succesful people in Spore, US or other countries didn't succeed overnight. They have to work for years to be where they are today.

An employee mindset also tends to lay blame, find excuses for all the wrongs in the business. They had made the decision to join for many different personal reasons (nobody join to make the company or upline rich) but when they fail; they blame.

MLM is a free enterprise, the entry barrier is low, anybody can join so it is hard to manage the quality of the distributors. In almost the same way, more MLM companies have emerge because of the potential high return especially in the asian markets. I can understand the difficulties to select the right company but there are watchdog org such as DSAS (Direct Selling Association of Spore) to at least help people to narrow their search.

Last word of advice to avoid a scam: 'If you think it is too good to be true, then it is probably not true'

Thanks

2005wss SG

agree with you, MLMmybiz...
its the greed and gullibility to believe there is easy money in this world without effort. In my opinion, do a thorough due diligence- and not rush to join just because it's a friend. Lots of questions to ask, trouble is MLM has too short a history in Singapore and many Singaporeans are not asking the right questions.
Just today, I got a big flyer stuck on my car windscreen with the Headline that says " xxx (name of company) guarantees you earn $5000 monthly income in 30 days! $10000 in 90 days ! Now if a gullible guy who reads such a promise believes it and don't ask the right string of questions on how this income realistically can sustain... people will be in hot-soup ! When I called to enquire all they say is its some water product and the initial stocks costs $20,000....
The only solution is caveat emptor, the need to have more educated would-be prospective networkers. Lets hear from networkers with several years international experience -please show me how to smell promises that can never be kept like this "xxx-water's income guarantee"

laurence82 SG

I think, with cases like ntiparis, scams are getting harder to diagnose

MLM Victim SG

And Coslab, Venture Era….

MLM Victim SG

And "I Love BMW"...

Hahahahahahahaha.....

MlmMyBiz SG

MLM is to allow average folks with little 'capital, business experience, background and network' to start a business. If a particular company need me to invest more than the required sign up fee to start, I'll question them on the purpose. I can accept business investment in MLM if the purpose is for me to use the product myself and also provide sample for prospect to try. This shouldn't be a very big sum, probably buying only 1 from some of the product series to demo.

However, if they want me to buy up position or buy up stock at greater discount so I can sell the stock for higher retail profit then the motive is questionable. The whole idea of MLM is to partner with a respectable company so to minimize our risk. The risk is the money paid for R&D, storage, logistics, administration, financing .... don't be sweet talk into buying stocks, it defeat the whole purpose of joining an MLM company. Buying up of position is usually associated with 'binary' plan, they show the multiplier effect in commission if the prospect invest in multiple accounts.

In summary, nobody needs to buy any product to start a MLM business especially during the first meeting. You can start to plan for time and monetary investment When you have think through the biz, products & compensation and decided that it is sound.

2005wss SG

MLM plans with compulsory monthly maintenance then falls under what you are saying that is not proper here - especially if it gives you no choice right?
Many nutritional MLM plans make you spend around $200 monthly and the stuff has an expiry date. Better stay away from such plans
The big flyer I mentioned earlier that was stuck on my car windscreen is from Diamond water, that GUARANTEE $5000monthly in 30 days, $10000monthly in 90 days , provided I put in $20000. Now, thats scary ! I think such bold dangerous promises like this will one day get them into trouble

Ito_^ SG

bullshit.

laurence82 SG

pardon me, but i dont understand ur third para, and i must say i totally agree with ur first two

which one has the higher and first priority, products or compensation? or both at same time?

MlmMyBiz SG

Sorry, I over simplify the last para. My MLM criteria include not only products & compensation, but also the company background, team dynamics and the sponsor. These criteria are found in more details in my earlier posting.

The reason I put down products & compensation here is to help new comer to MLM to avoid pitfall or minimize the loss. If the product is good (at least for the new person), with no stockup and no requirement to invest several accounts to earn more profits then even if the biz didn't workout, the loss is small.

Note: Most pyramid selling (even some MLM company using the same technique) pushes people to buy up stocks which maybe overprice or invest in head count (multiple accounts) to qualify for more commission.

Thanks

MlmMyBiz SG

The criteria is found in another track 'any opinion of Usana and Overseas upline'

Thanks

MlmMyBiz SG

I think you're refering to 'Stock up'. In my opinion (just my opinion), monthly maintenance is not stocking up of products. So far most of the companies with maintenance round up to a couple of hundred dollars every month. Stock up is buying thousand or ten of thousands right on the first day. Stocking up products doesn't automatically means that the company is 'unethical', the problem is they didn't consider the ability of the new prospect to market those products. Traditional businessman love this concept, 'buy stocks with huge discount, sell it away at higher profits'. However, normal folks with no biz experience may not be able to do that.

Some people felt that spending or selling couple of hundred of dollars of products every month is tough or not quite right. My suggestion is for them to think through what is their objective in joining an MLM business. If their purpose is to make money (big or small doesn't matter) or monthly income then they must have monthly sales. If they're just users, then they can choose to buy product anytime they want to without commiting on monthly maintenance.

I run my MLM biz as a biz and I expect my distributors to do the same. I invest time on those who are commited to the biz and not to those that just want to 'TRY'. My distributors also have the same expectation of me so is it leverage in both direction. Most MLM company (including mine) will ask people to set goals and they usually set big goals (big car, big house, long holiday ...). Whatever the goals maybe, it takes constant time & constant effort.

We can succeed in MLM with full-time or part-time but never as a 'Pastime'.

simpleboi SG

Hi,

Yup, I believe monthly sales is important in doing a business. What I personally feel, however, is that one should be rewarded even up to every dollar he sell, meaning for that month, whether u sell a few thousand or even 10 dollars, you will still be given some rewards too instead of having to meet a minimum quota before getting rewards. For example, for the next 2 months, I can sell $200 worth like say in $50 1st month and $150 second month and get the same bonuses. However for those with a minimum quota of $100 per month lets say, now you can't get the 1st month bonus and the only way is to top up $50 with products at the end of the month or do not get the bonus at all..only get the $150 one. My company doesn't encourage the above system of keeping products especially as we have a 3 months full-money back guarantee system and only when customers want the product then we get from the warehouse etc.

I also agree that doing the business is not about trying. In order to be true to yourself, shld really put in effort to do the business, thus no matter what the result will be, you know you have done your very best in the business.

cheers

Cepat SG

As people are getting smarter now and more skeptical on the reputed success of MLMs, there will be less acceptance of all kinds of MLMs. It's like you know this is a scam, people will say no to the scam due to their gut instinct and being uncomfortable.

So think in terms of a chain effect, if no one bothers to attend those MLM seminars because they have learnt to recognise all MLMs are scams, then there will be no one to listen to the hyped up MLM speakers, then no one will puchase anything since no one is attending.

It's only the irritating MLM speakers who should be burnt in eternal damnation since they only know how to mislead people with their supposed wealth like luxury cars and high monthly residual income.

Sorry this forum should not be on promoting MLM but to expose the lying, untruths, hypocrisies of all MLMs. Sorry if I sound so blunt to anyone working in MLMs but I'm pissed off with having to be told that education is not important but come on, it's only lazy ignorant people who hanker after easy ways to get richer.

Thanks to this forum that it opens our eyes to the different types of MLM scams. Everyone should put in more effort to look for proper jobs rather than just wait and depend for their downlines to run dry. There's no such thing as a free lunch without working hard at getting a proper job.

I know all those who achieved success in MLMs, but can you 100% ensure you will be successfully earning the same type of residual income in the future? You never know what will happen and when your downlines start to dwindle, then what do you do next? Move on to a new MLM or start your own MLM?

Life is unpredictable, so please do not try to mislead people into thinking they can succeed in MLM as only the upline or one who started the MLM will get richer and profit on the ignorance of the downlines. I just pray everyone will learn to wake up and recognise the dangers of MLM.

husky1609 SG

Hi Cepat,

I'm not here to flame but just to clarify some misunderstanding you have about the industry....

1) No doubt there are unethical ppl in this trade, wrong choice of words might caused ppl to be offended. You are right in saying education is important, and in my opinion its for knowledge's sake.... Can you guarantee everyone will get a degree, masters or PHD if they study??? No?? Can your boss guarantee you a job to replace his position in 15 yrs time?? No?? When you play soccer, training everyday, will you wind the world cup??? Maybe??

See??? Nothing in this world is certain except death, and your boss cant even guarantee your job for life..... can he??? What generally MLMers are saying is to find a back-up plan in case things go wrong, or another opportunity to strike out in business with minimal start up capital.....

And wats wrong with recognition???? Those company that rewards employees are wrong to do so??? Is it their fault that they earn more money to afford to buy a luxurious cars?? MLMers are only saying the possibilities are there, nobody promised anything.... Effort is still needed.....

Tell me a way that you dun need to sell, dun need much effort, sit at home watch TV, dun need investment, no risk and confirm to earn a lot of money???? If you can tell me and answer all my questions, I'll follow you with my whole network of ppl......

Please understand that MLM is a business that allows normal ppl to have a chance to earn astronomical income with proper amount of effort and hardwork.... Ya you will be saying working in the society also can earn say 10k a month???? how many ppl has this chance???? You probably need to have a good honours or masters, work for 5 to 8 years before you get this kind of income.... how many frens do you have earning 10k a month??? how many years do you think you need to work before you earn 10k a month??? MLMers only tell you its possible within a short time if the right attitude and effort is put in.....

husky1609 SG

Every job or business or anything for that matter, there will be failures and success. If you put in effort with the right mentality, you will see your results....

If you dun study, everyday play football, will you have good grades??? maybe... even if I let you have good grades, will you be guaranteed a good job??? maybe??? Even if I let you have a job you like, will you guarantee you'll climb the corporate ladder all the way??? maybe..... Even if I let you be at the top, can you see the number of ppl who failed trying to achieve the same as you????? And in life its full of maybes, who is to tell if anyone wants to try and change his life for the better and not stick to the norm of being a salaried worker????

Then are you saying that those ppl who starts their own business are crooks??? Well, they are hiring ppl and exploiting them.... employers wanna pay as little as possible and employees hope to get paid as much as possible so who is to say???? When you are willing to get hired, then dun complain that your boss pay you little...... Same theory goes everywhere.....

MLM is an industry based on marketing of a quality products thru your own network of ppl and passed down along the way as the name suggest. Savings of huge amount of advertising fees are then used to pay out as commission..... To put it in very very layman terms.

Have you bought a sony appliances before?? have you got a mobile phone??? Did it ever occurred to you that the cost price is only a fraction of wat you paid for it??? all those money are spent on advertising and branding. So is sony or nokia scam companies also????

Salesman sells agressively, insurance agents look for their frens and family first, and they also recruit new agents, so are you telling me that insurance is a scam also????

husky1609 SG

Hi Cepat,

You will be surprised that ppl who earned a lot in this industry are much more hardworking than you. IF you think MLM is easy, effortless and with the misconception of squeezing downlines dry, you are very very mistaken about this trade.

If you have a proper job, means dun need to worry for life liao izzit??? if retrenched how??? I believe many others here are looking for opportunities rather than wait for retrenchment and uncertainties to happen and catch them unaware. Yup there is no free lunch, MLM needs a lot of effort to succeed, and thats where I agree with you that many many ppl wants the huge money but dun wanna put effort, thats why so many ppl are saying its a scam..... they are basically saying "I THOUGHT THIS IS EASY MONEY WHEN I SIT AT HOME WILL GET MONEY, AND IF I DID NOT, THIS IS A SCAM. I DIDN'T KNOW MUST PUT IN SO MUCH EFFORT. I DID NOT FAIL, ITS THE INDUSTRY THAT FAILED ME."

basically my reply is very neutral, its not meant to flame or to say MLM is good..... not everybody is suitable for MLM, and if you dun wanna work hard, then dun join MLM cos you wont make it........

Cepat SG

What do you mean by wrong choice of words? I'm just hitting at the truth and reality of MLMs and the truth always hurts, just that some people prefer to hear honey coated words while ignoring the truth. Sorry I don't beat about the bush but go directly to the point.

Education is more than for knowledge's sake. It's a life long learning that can help one to upgrade continuously and pick up new skills. As long as one can study and afford to pay for the fees to obtain their degree, Master's or PhD, why not? Don't forget that there is an immense pride once a person obtain their educational qualification.

The only way to ensure job security is to continously upgrade one's skills. One is never old to learn, I believe strongly in lifelong earning. Just as most MLMs will say if you try hard you will succeed, similarly if you continuously upgrade your skills, you will not worry about job retrenchments as you have the skills that your employer wants.

Sorry, what has winning the world cup or playing soccer to do with this?

Death is the only certain thing in life but at least we can make our lives meaningful if we continously upgrade. There is always insecurity in having a backup plan for MLMs, because in the first place, MLMs don't necessarily mean a permanent lifelong residual income as sooner or later the number of downlines will dwindle.

There's nothing wrong in the company trying to award recognition to its top salesperson, but the way they do it is wrong. It only fuels the greed in everyone, come on, who doesn't want that nice looking BMW in the photos they put up on the walls. Everyone will try to achieve the car target by unscrupously targeting their relatives and friends and trying to hardsell to them the benefits of using their products. Striking fear into others is really a despicable act that should be punishable by law. The only end result is a loss of face within the family (bad news spread fast) and loss of friends as everyone will avoid the MLM salesperson.

Yes, all kinds of sales job require effort to sell, we just can't sit down and shake legs and wait for the sales to come. It all depends on what one is selling and whether there is any demand for it. If there's a lot of people interested in buying the product, then the salesperson will not have to put in so much effort in promoting the product. Then the sales will come in and that means greater commission for the salesperson.

The only difference is that the true sales people who sell proper products which people need will be the ones who succeed and not those who try to sell products which people don't need. Why should I spend so expensively on a health product sold by a MLM company when the same similar product can be bought cheaper at a retail shop like Guardian or Watson?

Finally, you're saying that MLM is a business that allows normal people to have a chance to earn astronomical income with proper amount of effort and hardwork. Well anyone with the right capital and business logic can also achieve that but look at the real situation, how many people can actually succeed in starting a new business? There's bound to be failures as not everyone has that elusive business acumen. Do you actually own the business as you're just representing an existing company? How much control do you actually have in running your own business?

How do you know that these people actually earn 10K a month? Have they shown you their bank account or salary cheque? Will they even bother to show you how much they earn every month? The truth is they can't show you they earn that amount every month as the business is not constant and dependent on the number of downlines they have. If there's not enough downlines then they cannot even sustain that amount every month.

Yah all MLMers will tell you it's possible within a short time if the right attitude and effort is put in....Come on what can they tell us to help us to achieve success? What is the key to their success? So far I have been to many MLM presentations and all I see is their supposed success is to follow their proven formula eg binary pattern and through purchasing their seminar CDs/tapes/books. But I'm not told how to actually achieve success.

Perhaps more effort should have been done on the MLMers rather than just telling the individual that they can succeed if they put in the right attitude and effort. I have never seen any MLMer say that rejection is the first step to success, as being rejected will spur the individual to try to work harder to improve his/her selling skills without having to resort to the dreaded hardselling techniques of striking fear into others.

For other sales job like insurance and property, the rejection part is emphasized strongly so that people will not have false expectations and be misled to think they never try hard enough. Hope you don't think I have no understanding of how the MLM industry work, husky1609.