Good MLM Company

pqr SG

... No organisation that has any intention of actually selling a product will ever try to use MLM as a distribution channel. Conventional channels such as supermarkets/departments stores and retail/wholesale chains are far more efficient and effective. ]

If that is true, how come sharp, phillips, tiffany are selling some of their items thru amway?

The only proponents of MLM are the scammers who sell a dream of easy money (just recruit a few people, enjoy the benefits of a residual income as your friends continue to recruit people.) and earn their money at the expense of their downline.

That is pyramid. Not MLM.
MLM and pyramid are not the same you know

ratty SG

All pyramid scheme's claim to be MLM's.

The characteristics of a pyramid are:

1. Majority of sales take place within the network. (ie to fellow members, not to outsiders).
2. Comissions are paid for sales made by downliners.
3. As a result, products sell for higher prices than from more conventional distributors.

Every MLM that I have ever encountered has turned out to be a pyramid.

See my arguments above as to why no company which actually wants to sell its products will use MLM as a distribution channel.

Went to the Philips Singapore site: see following link

http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/locators/retail_store_locator.jsp?navHighLT=retailStLctr&language=en&country=SG&catalogType=CONSUMER&proxybuster=UTRGEMRYYR0LDJ0RMRESHQVHKFSEKI5P

You can buy Philips products either at a retail store or an online store. No mention of any MLM.

There may well be people selling Philips or Sharp or any other products through MLM's but these are hardly likely to be authorised distributors. Anyone can buy equipment wholesale and then try to sell it through an MLM network. If they are indeed selling the product at competitive prices (prices lower than the regular stores) I will be most surprised.

ratty SG

Well I've been working in the corporate world for the past fifteen years, in manufacturing, trading, FMCG and financial services. I've worked closely with marketing teams, helped draw up distribution strategies for products.

laurence82 SG

If so, pls do back up ur posts with stats, instead of statements... Laughing

ratty SG

Originally posted by laurence82:
Goodness, comparing Walmart with Amway?

nowadays companies dont compare sales size, company size or even market share as benchmark loh, they are getting more sophiscated and and are comparing profitability, cost leadership and product differentiation liao....all these are benchmarked against [b]similar competitors in the same industry...

wtf, comparing a hypermart retailer and a health products distributor is like comparing apples and oranges... Laughing

[/b]

My point in comparing Wal-Mart with Amway is to compare two systems of distribution.

I have chosen these two organisations because they are the largest in their respective fields. Amway is the largest MLM and Wal-Mart is the largest bricks-and-motar network. Both are retail distributors.

The comparison of these two is particularly apt because they both started in the USA within a few years of each other. (Amway in 1959, Wal-Mart in 1963).

The point that I am making is that conventional distribution is far more efficient than MLM.

Honeybunz SG

Maybe you would like to read this book which will tell you the difference between pyramid and MLMs :

Last time I also couldn't diff both, despite all the verbal explanations by many people, until I read this book. It's a very thin book. Cost only about $14, I think. No harm reading it. Just for knowledge.

dweebzs SG

Originally posted by Honeybunz:

And some of them get retrenched gracefully one day Laughing
Joking...
Seriously, dun mean to be sarcastic but it's a fact that we cannot guarantee that they will still have a job tomorrow. The way they retrench staff in USA is a lot, I mean really a lot, more devastating than what we see in Sg.

Because of the trend that the world is moving towards, personally, I don't forsee or look forward to working for ppl 10 years later from now.

Long before MLM comes to Singapore, I have already planned for my own business and started saving for capital. I believe that's the way to survive.

Working for people is great. We do our part. And every month, we get a fixed pay. End of year, we get a bonus, if the company performs well. I love working for ppl too. But the world's trend is moving in such direction that is allowing us to believe in this anymore. You can love your job, love your company. But the company doesn't have to love you.

It's ok to continue working for ppl if you love this lifestyle. But my advice is : have more than 1 source of income.

I agree very much with HoneyBunz notion.

It is apparent in Sg economy as well.
The govt. has been preaching Entrepreneurship for a reason.
They cannot continue to provide us with labour intensive jobs anymore (eg. manufacturing, construction, product assembly - Latest Maxtor reportedly going to layoff more than 5000 workers for 2005 alone)
These industries are lost for Singaporeans for good.

Also remember the devastating layoffs by the seemingly 'stable' PSA and SIA.

PLUS many jobs, even civil servants start out on contract and probation. ie. they can be 'released' if they underperform or rather act as a 'cushion' in case the industry cannot sustain the current employment level.

So back to the govt.'s preach on entrepreneurship.
Remember how 'Brain Drain' used to be an issue in the earlier days?? They're now telling u to seize whatever job opportunities/business you have, be it locally or abroad...

So going by the current labour demands, you either have the necessary skills for upcoming/growing markets like the bio-pharmaceuticals/medical/tourism/banking etc (or be prepared for layoffs)
OR start out on your own business - the reason why govts are giving extensive support for a business friendly environment in sg - and also more support to SMEs by setting up IE Singapore etc2

Bottomline, employment stability is no longer a luxury singaporeans will enjoy.
So start preparing now for the way of the future....

pqr SG

If those you come across are pyramid, pls make a police report. I also hope those company or people will be caugh as they are the black sheep!

To your point number 2, Products selling thru Amway or any MLM can also be sold to outsider what Rolling Eyes

To ur pt number 3, products selling thru MLM are normally not allow to sell thru other retails means. But then again, this depends on the agreement btwn the the parties.

The prices selling thru MLM should not be higher than any retails price. They should be the same. Can you share with us what products that u know of are selling thru both retail and MLM? And the prices thru MLM is higher?

I do know some product are selling thru MLM and retail at the same time but NOT thru amway. Pls give examples so that i can learn about it also.

The only thing i can think of this cause could be few of the groups in THAT MLM are selling against the rules and ethics of MLM.

You are right that anyone can buy whole sale and sell thru MLM, but amway do not buy whole sale from philips or sharp or any other brand.

It is the brand themselves ask MLM to sell those model for them thru Amway! Plus these model selling thru Amway cannot be found on any other retail shops as that is the agreement btwn sharp, philips and amway. Hence, the incident of amway selling at higher price than conventional shops cannot happen right?

ratty SG

"To your point number 2, Products selling thru Amway or any MLM can also be sold to outsider what Rolling Eyes "
Products can be sold to outsiders. But are they?

The feature of a pyramid is that the MAJORITY of the products are sold WITHIN the network. (ie to fellow members).

A few products being sold to outsiders(ie consumers, people who buy the product to use ) is not sufficient. The majority must be sold to outsiders.

The test often used to establish what "majority" of sales by US courts is that 70% of sales must be to outsiders. (People who buy the product for its own sake, not with the intention of earning comissions by recruiting others)

The reason that this is so important is that if most sales are made to fellow members, then if sales are to continue new members must be recruited. (if new membership enrollment stops, sales stop). Since population is fixed, recruitment does eventually stop (though it may take a few years to run through the population) and the scheme collapses.

"To ur pt number 3, products selling thru MLM are normally not allow to sell thru other retails means. But then again, this depends on the agreement btwn the the parties. "

Maybe true but how are they priced vis a vis similar products in the marketplace? This is a way of establishing if a real market exists for the product. (ie it will be bought by the "outsiders"-non members that I referred to in the para above. The price testis to establish if the product will appeal to a customer for its own sake. In the event no comparison i prices is possible (and many pyramids will cleverly pick gimicky products that are difficult to compare on price) then the we need to rely on the "majority of sales to outsiders" test. Unfortunately information on this is not usually available until someone joins the scheme.

"The prices selling thru MLM should not be higher than any retails price. They should be the same. Can you share with us what products that u know of are selling thru both retail and MLM? And the prices thru MLM is higher? "

GoldQuest was selling the Sydney Olympics, FIFA and some other commemorative coins at prices 30% above those quoted by the official distributors. Other licensed coin dealers were also around 30% cheaper.

Misogynist SG

Chicken rice can MLM or not?

ratty SG

Admitted, many people do find making the distinction between MLM and Pyramid scheme very difficult. The best guide to use is that of an independent government regulator. This way one is sure that the advice given is free of bias. The US Federal Trade Commission's guide is very helpful.

it is available here:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/invest/mlm.htm

Amongst other things the FTC advises that people should watch out for the following:

'If a plan offers to pay commissions for recruiting new distributors, watch out! Most states outlaw this practice, which is known as "pyramiding."'

"Why is pyramiding prohibited? Because plans that pay commissions for recruiting new distributors inevitably collapse when no new distributors can be recruited. And when a plan collapses, most people -- except perhaps those at the very top of the pyramid -- lose their money."

They also advise that:

1. Avoid any plan that includes commissions for recruiting additional distributors. It may be an illegal pyramid.

2. Beware of plans that ask new distributors to purchase expensive inventory. These plans can collapse quickly -- and also may be thinly-disguised pyramids.

3. Be cautious of plans that claim you will make money through continued growth of your "downline" -- the commissions on sales made by new distributors you recruit -- rather than through sales of products you make yourself.

4. Beware of plans that claim to sell miracle products or promise enormous earnings. Just because a promoter of a plan makes a claim doesn't mean it's true! Ask the promoter of the plan to substantiate claims with hard evidence.

5. Beware of shills -- "decoy" references paid by a plan's promoter to describe their fictional success in earning money through the plan.

6. Don't pay or sign any contracts in an "opportunity meeting" or any other high-pressure situation. Insist on taking your time to think over a decision to join. Talk it over with your spouse, a knowledgeable friend, an accountant or lawyer.

See also:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/pyrdalrt.htm

The Australian government runs a site that gives useful tips on avoiding them here:

http://www.scamwatch.gov.au/content/scams/scams.asp

Some known scams are listed here (by the State government of South Australia):

http://www.ocba.sa.gov.au/scams/03_pyramidscheme.html

Honeybunz SG

Thanks, ratty for your input.

Personally, I would think that people who cannot differentiate Pyramid and MLM will also not be able to understand those govt's guidelines. They are generally to wordy for any lay people to understand. They look more like text books for law students...heheh

AvengingAngel SG

In my opinion, all mlm company can be done one, except for NTIparis.

All mlm companys from james phuang is out to cheat people, a black sheep in the mlm era.. Evil or Very Mad

Honeybunz SG

Why nobody complain to the authority?
I don't mean CASE. CASE has too many cases to handle. Also dun mean DSAS. Complain to MPs. MPs sure take action, cuz they want to impress and look useful at the Parliament.

Raj23 SG

It seems like there is alot of questions on whether a MLM company is real or here to stay or are their pay plan approved or good etc etc etc

Why not go to the DSAS website to find out the companies that are registered with them. http://www.dsas.org.sg
Frankly, not all companies can be seen in the list.

AS for the products and pay plan they have i guess its up individual to feel comfortable enough to try the products or even join the company to be a distributor.

If someone is asking u to try the products just make sure he has tried them on himself to show that the product works. Same goes to the payplan as individual companies have positive or negative payplan based on understanding. Weigh it to find out!

Honeybunz SG

Why do some companies insist on members maintaining min. volume points or sales every month?

This is the question that has been bugging me.

Some companies (not to name any here) require members to maintain at least approx S$300 worth of volume points every month. This means that the member will have to purchase S$300 worth of products from the office and the company assume that the member can clear the stock every month. If the member fail to fulfill the min. in a month, he will be downgraded or demoted (something like that).

I feel this is not the right thing and it's not fair to the distributor. What if, in a certain month or period, the distributor slows down in his business for some reasons? He will be demoted and has to work hard all over again to go back to the original level where he came down from. So many people got their fingers burnt because of that.

I think a good MLM company should not require the member to throw in money just like that or force the member to invest in so many stocks. What if the member cannot clear the stock before it expires?

Some MLMers or those interested in exploring are retrenched staff, housewives with little allowances from husband, jobless ones etc. We cannot expect them to throw in a few thousand dollars and call it an investment, while they have not even made their first dollar from the business. A good MLM company should have avenues for such people, and should only require them to pay for the membership processing fee (that's all).

If a MLM company requires members to purchase a min stock to do the business, what difference does it make from pyramid or time sharing company??? Unfortunately, while MLM is a great opportunity for most people, there have been a lot of black sheep in the market.

Luckily there are still good companies that don't "eat" their members' money. So for those of you exploring the business, do keep your eyes and ears open. Don't be afraid to say "I have to think about it" if you really need time to research and think deeply about it. If the particular distributor force you to go into the business (what we usually call Hard Sell), but the company system is good, just walk away and look for another distributor of the same company. You wouldn't want to work the business with pushy people, right?

ORIGAMIST SG

I agree wholehearted with you although many have been said that with maintainance, there is a fixed income, otherwise, where did the money comes from. I know of some companies, ( regretfully very few ) that do not requires you to maintain. You only need to buy what you need and still allow you to earn from the sale you downline make.. I have been victims of hard selling too. more often than not, you end up losing a friend by not joining ... Well that being the case I do not mind losing it since they do not care for your welfare in the first place.... who say, you will find out who is your friend after you join MLM. You can also judge your friend who join MLM....

ItPaysWell SG

Try this links and decide for yourself.

http://www.gocollect.com/AffiliateNetwork/getlinks.asp?id=3206

http://www.moreinfo247.com/8959233

http://PayMeWell.FSCStore.com

amerpsycho SG

I believe that some companies out there wants you to maintain a min volume for a few reasons :

1. It is to ensure that everyone is 'forced' to produce so that products will get moved. Think about it, if no one does anything, will any company survive? This is especially if the products from the company is not an ESSENTIAL product.

2. The management simply thought of this clause in the marketg plan to make more money. The fear of loss of distributors in case they get demoted will always means they will buy up the volume be it they need it or not.

Personally, i know HERBALIFE does not requires any min volume to keep your status on a monthly basis. Once you get to a level called Supervisor, you keep the status for a year at least ( correct me if i am wrong). The way i see it, it is rather fair as it gives you a year to build your customer base so that the business you generate from OUTSIDE your group will automatically qualify you again.... and isn't this what a healthy business should look like?

I studied their marketing plan and they do not have any monthly fixed target you are FORCED to maintain. It is absolutely voluntary... if you work (retail or recruit or from your group volume) you get paid. Fair enough....

Alex Wong SG

congrat. go for HERBALIFE.

i HOPE... really HOPE you can succeed after 30 years in that company.

ALL THE WAY!!!! Very Happy

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