What's your view on homosexualtiy in Singapore

last SG · 2005-05-28T15:39:18+00:00

Er....I don't know if this message was directed at me, but if it was, my answer would be..... I'm personally not open to homosexuality and not open to inces...

oxford mushroom SG

Hold on guys...Looks like this discussion is turning into personal attacks...

I do agree that homosexuality between consenting adults does not pose a threat to others and it is a valid point that it should remain a private matter between individuals. I have a feeling that the government also wishes that it should remain quiet and a private matter. It is not in their interest to prosecute anyone and make it a big issue. It would be fine if we all adopt a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy in Singapore.

Unfortunately, the gay community does not seem to be satisfied with that and wishes to exert their rights to celebrate homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle. Certain members of the gay community are particularly vocal and this results in strong opposition from the religious and conservative sectors of our society.

I find it strange that people should want to keep religion out of this issue. The fact is, religion and cultural beliefs lie at the crux of this issue. After all, homosexuality does not pose a direct danger to others. But that can also be said of pornography and prostitution involving willing parties. There are no victims in many such vices, only consenting adults. If you are a conscientious objector, you do not have to take part, so what's the problem?

The problem is that with an increasingly vocal gay community, detractors are concerned that their children may begin to feel that homosexuality is an acceptable alternative lifestyle, which goes against their religious and cultural beliefs. It is also difficult to argue against the rights of a parent to bring up his or her children after the religious and cultural norms of his family. Conflict becomes inevitable.

If the gay community in Singapore wants to avoid discrimination and the sort of robust opposition they have encountered in recent days, I suggest they should tone down and keep a low profile. The vast majority of the population in Singapore does not embrace homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle. They can be persuaded to be accepting and tolerant of gay people provided homosexuals do not attempt to challenge the religious and cultural beliefs of the majority. The sort of gay activism we see in recent years will only serve to firm battle lines and inadvertently create a more homophobic population.

iveco SG

But even a staunch Catholic nation like Spain can consider gay marriage and parenthood. This is a sign of their enlightenment. All must take a leaf from their books.

enjoys456 SG

Sister [email protected],

ignorance is not something that we cannot completely eliminate... we have to live with it..

but knowing and yet denying what is acceptable as mainstream.. is foolish

any parents would want to die knowing their boy has become a good man

any wife will want a man to start a family with

any child would want to draw a father and mother in their Pri 1 art class when they are asked to draw "Your favourite family"
it's tough to swallow for some, and even harder face the reality at times, but that where we are

and that the stand that many will take to protect the family values

this is my stand for family values !!

Troy437 SG

To the homos out there,

JUST STAY WITHIN YOUR OWN COMMUNITY.

DUN TRY TO RECRUIT ANYONE WHO IS NOT SURE OF HIS SEXUALITY.

GO TO FIXED ESTABLISHMENT TO DO YOUR STUFF.

DUN FARKING TRY TO FISH GOOD MAN OFF THE STREETS

Cool Dun screw around with me you farking homos....

enjoys456 SG

yo earthing73.. come back down to earth… we are talking about ppl who “man-to-man”... stay focus…

earthlings73 SG

1) Your point about gay community being vocal.

I don't think this is the case. The only occasions when we see any news about the gay circles are usually news made by the straight communities. For example, the Nation party, or a straight reporter pretending to be gay to go to a gay sauna, or the recent Aids issues. I have yet to see any gay groups standing up to fight for their rights. In fact, gay groups are not even allowed to be registered as a society, it is deemed illegal.

2) Discrimination.

The discrimination comes in with all the policies that favour married couples, especially with children. But the fact is, gays are contributing to the tax returns. Gays are discriminated even without the need to be vocal. Some of the rules include the purchase of flats, the grant given to married couples for flats. Sure, the rules are loosening up on the flat purchase, but that it's an after thought. After countless flats were left unoccupied. If this is not discrimination, what is?

3) "Out of sight, out of mind"

One of the "concerns" with the gay community seems to be the rampening aids. The best way to resolve the issue is not to clamp down Nation (Since flying to Bangkok cost only $100-$200 these days). The best solution is to recognise that gays exist. And a different tact and messaging is needed to reach this group. Pretending the group is non-existent will not resolve the underlying Aids problem. In fact, the police has been actively clamping down these advertisements campaign targetting at the gay population. Why? Because some kids took back some of these advert cards to their mother's horror. But wait, aren't these cards available only at gay spots? If their sons are not gays, why on earth would they visit a gay spot? Keep denying the problem will not resolve the problem.

4) Promoting alternative lifestyle

There are tonnes of papers that suggest that gays are borned, not made. Although there is one paper published by Robert Spitzer about ex-gays. You will realise that something is wrong with his sample and data collection mode. He did not even bother to find out whether his sample is exclusively gays? bisexuals? or straights (since 15% of them did not have sex with the same gender before). At the end of the day, if you are gay, just accept your orientation and move on. If you are not gay, chances of you "trying out" the circle is minute cause the circle isn't as "exciting" or "fun" as assumed by many others.

5) I applaud you

Finally, thanks for bringing up such valid points instead of pure bashing. And for that, I salute you.

earthlings73 SG

Originally posted by enjoys456:
Sister [email protected],

ignorance is not something that we cannot completely eliminate... we have to live with it..

but knowing and yet denying what is acceptable as mainstream.. is foolish

[b]any parents would want to die knowing their boy has become a good man

any wife will want a man to start a family with

any child would want to draw a father and mother in their Pri 1 art class when they are asked to draw "Your favourite family"
it's tough to swallow for some, and even harder face the reality at times, but that where we are

and that the stand that many will take to protect the family values

this is my stand for family values !![/b]

In Nazi Germany, the Nazi is considered mainstream. And Jews should be exterminated.

In US or Europe 200 years ago, Whites are considered mainstream. And Blacks should be slave.

In Roman 1st century, Paganism is considered mainstream. And Christians should be burned on stake.

In Miedeval Europe, Christianity is considered the mainstream. Those who practice Paganism should be burned on stake.

It very much depends on the time and context.

And description of family values is a straight family values. Gay should respect that. But gays would hope that straight respect gay family values too. 2 person drawn to each other. Decide to stay to together. Taking care of each other forever. The children issue might be a problem. But in some countries, gay adoption has become a resolution. And I would say, why not? Since abortion is on the rise and kids are thrown by their parents are rubbish in the rubbish chute.

earthlings73 SG

First of all, please do not use CAP, it sounds like you are shouting, and it's damn rude.

Different people pass through different phrases of life. Even though some gays might apparently miscontrued that someone else is gay and wish to develop a relationship with him. But these are the minorities and usually pertains only to those who are not well-adjusted.

Go watch Summer Storm if you have the chance (watch it with an open mind). Oh, by the way, all the actors, except one, are straights.

earthlings73 SG

I have no idea what you are talking about. Please clarify.

laosu SG

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Troy437:
To the homos out there,

JUST STAY WITHIN YOUR OWN COMMUNITY.

DUN TRY TO RECRUIT ANYONE WHO IS NOT SURE OF HIS SEXUALITY.

GO TO FIXED ESTABLISHMENT TO DO YOUR STUFF.

DUN FARKING TRY TO FISH GOOD MAN OFF THE STREETS

Dun screw around with me you farking homos....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To add on to earthling's comments....no one in this world has the ability to influence. If there is then all will be one. So please do not make comments as such that gays are trying to "recruit" anyone. Your comments is like stating "God is Devil and Devil is God". No offence to Gods believers.

I can be in love with someone of my own gender but if that person can't love me back..all I can say is..too bad for me. It's still that person's choice whether to be with me as a lover.

laosu SG

JUST STAY WITHIN YOUR OWN COMMUNITY.
My community is call "HUMANS"

DUN TRY TO RECRUIT ANYONE WHO IS NOT SURE OF HIS SEXUALITY.
Not my business if that person isn't sure of he/her own sexuality. It's that person's own life and decision. He/She decide what is best for him/her.

GO TO FIXED ESTABLISHMENT TO DO YOUR STUFF.
I'm a daylight walker and I do everything above the ground and under the sun. Maybe you would like to go see a shrink to correct your brain for more proper and more civilised thinking.

DUN FARKING TRY TO FISH GOOD MAN OFF THE STREETS
Ohhhh...you sound like a gay. scared shit that I'll snatch your good guy from you? Or are you a gal whom lost your bf to another guy who can love him as a human being and respect him as a human?

Sorry if you take this really personal. Maybe I'm being personal here just because that you show no respect for other people's personal rights to their own lifestyle. Grow up and stop sucking milk bottles!

oxford mushroom SG

The discrimination comes in with all the policies that favour married couples, especially with children. But the fact is, gays are contributing to the tax returns. Gays are discriminated even without the need to be vocal. Some of the rules include the purchase of flats, the grant given to married couples for flats. Sure, the rules are loosening up on the flat purchase, but that it's an after thought. After countless flats were left unoccupied.

Housing policies in Singapore reflect the society and the government's stated objective of promoting core family values. For that reason, subsidised public housing and even certain resale flats at one time were not available to singles like myself. So this form of discrimination is not targeted at the gay community. As for taxes, I can honestly say that I pay far more taxes than my married colleagues and consume less of the society's resources. Of course it's not fair for me...

The fact is that my single lifestyle and the gay lifestyle of some others fall outside the mainstream of society. Singlehood and homosexuality are not considered to be desirable traits in our society and so we are 'tolerated', as long as we keep our personal preferences to ourselves. To demand for more egalitarian treatment is to challenge the deeply held values of the majority at a time when the society is, by and large, not ready for such a change.

I fear a backlash is building up against the gay community as a result and it is quite conceivable that even the few liberties that were once permitted would now be withdrawn. I see the issue involving the gay parties as a case in point.

UOTC SG

I understand that religion stuff are sensitive issue. The World Had Change ex, Guys F Guys & Gals Lick Gals. Who Knoes, 10 or 20 yrs later, Dogs are Fxxxing the Cats.

People was discussing abt Homo stuff. For wat, bring out Jesus Christ or Mary. If you are interested in Preaching, Go & find someone. At SG forums, we talk in logical stuff or Talk Cock. Come on, Dun be so serious.

iveco SG

It is as good as saying our society has gone into regressive mode while Spain has made the giant leap forward when it allowed gay marriage and parenthood despite its staunch Catholic structure.

coffeeortea SG

i just fear that one day there will be a cease in production of babies

enjoys456 SG

Gay are of flesh, blood, etc.... all that we know.

the world is but a jungle in another form... the gay folks struggle to get attention and visibility... no doubt they have a bunch of high posts folks across the various industry, but the wave of mainstream will tell you the direction to flow.

history of that time, was made at that time... and history can change

the case is indirectly fundamental, is there a place for the gay lifestlye here in singapore ?

should the place be as big as we our tolerance ? if yes, how far...

having an undergrad over the public radio proudly saying his is gay, and he don't see anything wrong with it, is acceptable ?

do our straight female or straight male population want our men to be a man or a gay ?

mr nice guy SG

i hate homies Evil or Very Mad

iveco SG

What about metrosexuals? How do you rate them?

earthlings73 SG

1) Single cannot be equated with gays

Thank you for bringing this up. And I totally agree. In fact, you have just put forth an argument for gay marriage without realising it. Yes, Single is just a sub-set of Straights, be it male or female. However, in the gay community, there are single, those in monogamous relationship, those in open relationship, etc, etc... Why can't a monogamous relationship between 2 persons of the same gender be considered as a marriage? At the end of the day, isn't this the definition of marriage? Singlehood can be a choice, but being gay is not.. As a gay, you can choose to remain single, or you can choose to settle down. If you decide to settle down, do you have sex in your parent's house? Do you see the complexity of the issue now? Unless you want to claim that all gays should be like single.. But we are not, as clearly pointed out by you in your argument.

I know I've jumped the gun.. But just listing this as a discussion point.

2) A clearer discrimination

Okay, let me point out an even more fundamental discrimination then. In Singapore, the only permitted sex is the "regular" intercourse with a male genital and a female genital. You can perform fellatio (oral sex) but only as a foreplay. You can not have oral sex just for the sake of having it. All other kind of sex can be criminised. Do you consider this as a discrimination then?

3) Gay lifestyle

Most people use the term Gay lifestyle and gay community interchangeably. Or more specific, they use gay lifestyle in a degrading manner to describe the hedonistic lifestyle which involves only sauna, pub, gym, bedroom. The gay community has a part to play in giving this impression. But then, the hedonistic lifestyle is not the only lifestyle in the gay community. Very much like a single lifestyle. A single can be single because he prefers the freedom? Couldnt find a mate? Not active in looking one? etc, etc, etc.. The same thing can be said of the gay community.

4) Backlash

I have addressed this issue earlier. Since the formation of gay groups are disallowed officially. Gays do not have weights in the political arena. Simple as that. You have been talking about gays fighting for rights. Yes, it might be the case in San Francisco, in New York, in other parts of the world. But definitely not in Singapore. Hence, where's the backlash. If you have any specific examples, could you please bring it up?

earthlings73 SG

Nah, not to worry.. Gays exist since the beginning of time.. we have survives thousands of years.. why afraid now?

If straights have decide not to give birth, to abort, to throw babies in the rubbish chute, do you want to blame it on the gay community too?

Oh, forgot to mention Virginia Woofe is a Lesbian too.. Well, she got married.. But ended her life because of depression.. See, a gay/lesbian does not resolve his/her problem by getting married.. The problem will still persist.. And in the process, might even drag down the other party..

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