LTA Central Planning (Phase I) – Splitting ultra-long routes

last SG · 2010-03-27T22:14:40+00:00

*sigh* what to do? this is singapore, where everything is rising anyway, hope 135 wont be affected, for now

One Harmonius Blend SG

Status of 16

I believe Service 16 might be cut short into 2 services.
Bedok To Marine Parade Road (Loop) &
Bukit Merah To Marina Centre (Loop)

Bedok to Marine parade loop, that would be just like 15

Bukit Merah to Marina centre (Loop), 195 has it covered

But Bukit merah to Tampines or Upper east coast, still pretty much feasible

BusSpeeder SG

1st point, Have you ever thought of why it would be slow? remember, 16 passes through the town area

2nd point, Alternatives will be faster, yes but have you ever wondered if it goes by the same way?

3rd point , If you think i am wrong, can't force your mentality either

And by the way, 48 minutes is the normal timing for services like 16 to reach mountbatten road though from Bukit Merah straight

If you can clear the above, i have nothing to say much

you answered your own question. it goes past the town area. and its slower. tell me if there will be more passengers taking 16 or take the train and transfer?

if there are alternatives which is faster than 16 going by the same way, why not?

don't force then.

not all passengers are willing to sacrifice time if there's another method which is faster. so even if its 48 minutes, if there are better alternatives to take, passengers will just go over to take the faster method, unless they are not rushing for time.

cleared. so do you have nothing to say now?

Samuel Lee SG

Yeah. I agree with you that direct doesn't equate to the shortest distance from point to point. Direct means that one can sleep in the bus all the way from point to point, enjoying the comfort

I am not sure about the demand pattern of svc 14. If you are going from East Coast Rd to Bukit Merah for work, will you choose 3 transfers (bus, MRT, bus) or 14 everyday?

This is under the assumption that all bus routes above stage 25 are cut.

Personally, Bus,MRT,Bus seemed to be faster, if I am late. However, if I am tired, and wanted to sleep in bus, then 14. But, the fear is crowded bus and MRT make me no seat and sleep lol! One will have to take into account that a traffic jam can be disatorous as well.

Samuel Lee SG

Bedok to Marine parade loop, that would be just like 15

Bukit Merah to Marina centre (Loop), 195 has it covered

But Bukit merah to Tampines or Upper east coast, still pretty much feasible

Bedok to Marine Parade loop is not like 15. 15 goes to Bedok Reservoir and Eunos area then Marine Parade Town Centre while 16 is Bedok Town Centre, Bedok South (Bit of), Marine Parade (Siglap), Marine Parade Estate (Blk 50s, Blk 10s, Blk 30s in Marine Parade Road, Terrace and Crescent -- Where 15 does not cover), then Marine Parade Town Centre. (If it is going to be like what you said)

However, there are alternatives for this. 31, 197 generally can cover the stretch of Bedok - Marine Parade excluding the estate in the Blk 10s and Blk 30s, which is served by 196 again.

So, I doubt this sector may be preserved, OR rather, Bedok - Geylang Lorong 1 where the existing Bedok - Stadium remains and detour to Geylang Lorong 1.

This can be problematic where the portion of Dakota - Stadium is quite overlapping, where the possible 2 is:

Bedok - Eunos (Via Marine Parade, Joo Chiat Road, Dunman Road, Tanjong Katong Road then follows 30 to Eunos). But there are many services that plys from Bedok - Eunos and the only main benefit seems to be on Joo Chiat Road and Dunman road because Marine Parade have 55 or 15 towards Eunos and Tanjong Katong road people can just use 30.

service_238 SG

Yeah. I agree with you that direct doesn't equate to the shortest distance from point to point. Direct means that one can sleep in the bus all the way from point to point, enjoying the comfort

I am not sure about the demand pattern of svc 14. If you are going from East Coast Rd to Bukit Merah for work, will you choose 3 transfers (bus, MRT, bus) or 14 everyday?

This is under the assumption that all bus routes above stage 25 are cut.

S14 is a screwed route by itself. Extend and merge until present day. Splitting is a tough job i find.. One way is Bedok - Tomlinson Rd (Loop) / Bt Merah (even looping or terminating at these 2 places make the route feels long) and Clementi to Geylang Lor 1. Overlapping sector is Bt Merah till Nicoll Highway.

Another idea is split them into 3 sections.
1: Bedok - Marine Parade (Loop) via East Coast Rd, Amber Rd, Marine Parade Rd, Still Rd, East Coast Rd (clockwise direction also can). This retains the links between Bedok Nth residents going to East Coast and Siglap areas, not to mention Temasek Sec and Tanah Merah. I personally feel under hub and spoke LTA will make the Bedok Nth residents take train from Tanah Merah/Bedok to Nicoll Highway/Suntec/Orchard areas.. and beyond.

2: Upp East Coast - Bt Merah
At least this route doesnt feel long. Retains the links between the East Coast/Siglap corridor and Orchard. Bedok Rd ppl going to Orchard either take 10 change to this service or take a bus to Tanah Merah change train. It also retains the River Valley/Lower Delta corridor with Orchard (also covered by 65) as well as the Bt Merah <-> Lower Delta/River Valley corridor (partly covered by 5). Ppl living near Brickworks would have to take a bus down a few stops to transfer to this service to go Orchard, or take 123.

3: Clementi - Marina Ctr/MBS
From Bt Merah turn Lower Delta then Tiong Bahru and follow 195 till Marina Ctr. Which means 195 can be amended and/or terminate elsewhere as the Tiong Bahru -> Marina Ctr sector is pretty weak.

Status of 16

I believe Service 16 might be cut short into 2 services.
Bedok To Marine Parade Road (Loop) &
Bukit Merah To Marina Centre (Loop)

These two stretches are harder to delete, because the service serves certain bus stops that has no MRT nearby.

The stretch from Nicoll Highway to Old Airport Road might be axed with the opening of the circle line, forcing people to take MRT.

Probably Service 11 might get extended to compensate for 16's loss.

Bt Merah to Marina Centre sounds ok. Might as well extend to MBS then loop at Marina Bay MRT.

Bedok to Marine Parade Rd sound too much of 196 except one small section. Joo Chiat area will suffer the loss of the service. Best way out is Bedok - Geylang Lor 1 via Stadium first. In a sense only Nicoll Highway will not be covered by the split.

This is in assumption 16 and 36 dont rojak themselves again like what they did in the past. Or maybe 31 and 149 for that matter.. haha

SMB32T SG

the plan for Sv 16 will likely be an interesting one. since it merged with Sv 390 in the late 1980s, a lot of changes have occured intending to find the best way to link City with Marine Parade, Joo Chiat & Airport. we had Sv 16E, then came the present-day popular Sv 36 which was plagued by irregular headways & operational issues due to the bus going non-stop the whole day. how to untangle all these mess?

Service 16 was originally plying from Bt Merah to Marine Parade in the past, it was extended to Changi Airport when service 390 was withdrawn in late 1993. I believe that the bus journey from Changi Airport to Orchard was rather long with the route passing through Marine Parade, Old Airport Rd and National Stadium areas.

Service 16E was introduced as a peak-hour express service somewhere in mid 1995 and was renumbered to service 36 in late 1997. Somewhere in 1998 service 36's route was re-enhanced to its current route and converted to full day trunk service, with service 16 cutback to Marine Parade.

Samuel Lee SG

Bt Merah to Marina Centre sounds ok. Might as well extend to MBS then loop at Marina Bay MRT.

1:What is an MBS?

2: Isnt the Bedok - Geylang Lor 1 also something I had suggested earlier lol!?

service_238 SG

1:What is an MBS?

2: Isnt the Bedok - Geylang Lor 1 also something I had suggested earlier lol!?

Marina Bay Sands

lol ya.. too many comments and suggestions so i may miss them out in the process of reading.. haha.

Samuel Lee SG

Marina Bay Sands

lol ya.. too many comments and suggestions so i may miss them out in the process of reading.. haha.

lol! I was thinking of my now-defunct course which is also called as MBS (Mobile Business Solutions) in NP.

SBS7382C SG

Bt Merah to Marina Centre sounds ok. Might as well extend to MBS then loop at Marina Bay MRT.

This is in assumption 16 and 36 dont rojak themselves again like what they did in the past. Or maybe 31 and 149 for that matter.. haha

what about a merger with 11 for the bedok to geylang lor 1 part? then the other part loop at marina bay

TIB1232Z SG

I don't have to lie, and if you can't believe me, I can't force you either

48 mins to an hour is a pretty normal timing for buses that passes by the city to their preferred destination, unless you take the last bus out, or early sunday morning, then it will be pretty fast

Stop using psychology.

If people are kind enough to point out better alternatives, please kindly appreciate the effort they have put in to explain things to you. Not as if nobody even bothered to reply to your nonsense.

One Harmonius Blend SG

cleared. so do you have nothing to say now?

Yes, alternatives may be faster, but do you have the luck for it? not every bus that is on your side that you alight will reach on time though, if you want it fast, take the 1st to 3rd bus from BM/ Bedok interchange, that will be the fastest, anything later than that, it is not going to get nice with traffic jams.

and with that, i'll leave this open to comments, and leave it at the moment

One Harmonius Blend SG

Stop using psychology.

If people are kind enough to point out better alternatives, please kindly appreciate the effort they have put in to explain things to you. Not as if nobody even bothered to reply to your nonsense.

If you think i am, so be it, and yes, i will appreciate, only if it is logical

Samuel Lee SG

If you think i am, so be it, and yes, i will appreciate, only if it is logical

But a single 'direct' bus also can kena traffic jam, I rather board different buses and MRT, so that it at least moves.

The only clear logical point of your arguement, is, the cheaper fares, which will be gone into history, when the fare structure changes.

One Harmonius Blend SG

But a single 'direct' bus also can kena traffic jam, I rather board different buses and MRT, so that it at least moves.

The only clear logical point of your arguement, is, the cheaper fares, which will be gone into history, when the fare structure changes.

yes, single direct can cause traffic jams, but at which point of time?

If i take 16 at around 12+ to 1 in the afternoon, sure will kena jam one, needless to say

If it is the start of sunrise, can forget it already, if you want to reach earlier, (should be about 6+ though) either take the 1st bus to 3rd bus from BM/Bedok, so you won't be late

BusSpeeder SG

and with that, i'll leave this open to comments, and leave it at the moment

well you don't need luck for alternatives. and please read, the answer im replying to includes taking the train. so please stop diverting from the topic. and as you said, if you missed the earlier buses, the later trips will be affected by traffic jams. not to mention about the traffic jams, will the service 16 buses that are not affected by the traffic jams even reach the destination faster than the alternatives given? tell me how can 16 be faster than a train in the scenario given by SBS7485P then? i suggest you read his post over at page 13 again before replying me back via PM. keep posting about this and we're derailing from the topic.

sBs_boy SG

I believe that through the split of some of the services it will benefit the majority of the bus communters right here in Singapore. Although we are now being forced to make transfer from 1 bus service to the other or from one mode of transport to the other, but i feel that generally, our transport network will improve. Think about the through-fare system that they will be introduced from July onwards, this will help us to cut down our transport fares significantly.

IMO, it will benefit if they introduce transfer hubs around the city area. Over at these designated transfer hubs, there will have multiple bus berths (or bays) that buses can pull into. And for the buses, they will not be allowed to depart early from the "bus hubs". By doing so, they will then encourage more ppl to switch to public transport as we are now able to make seamless transfer between 2 services by waiting the shortest possible time. Communters who are taking train could also adjust their timings according to the timings provided.

By doing so, they could also minimise the impact of cutting those ultra long routes.

Some of the possible bus hubs that i can think of.
- Shenton Way
- Marina Bay Sands
- Marina Center
- Outram
- Queens St
- Orchard (can make use of the CP behind wheelock).

SBS7485P SG

My issue lies basically over 3 areas.

Are the current infrastructure able to cope with the splitting? As for now, I don't see LTA taking any action to improve capacity at Int/Ter(s) particularly in the City area.

Is the current network able to sustain to changes? The mature MRT lines are getting overloaded. Are you going to further overload the system like in Japan where personnel have to push people into trains? Will there be too many people at hot bus stops for transfers?

What is the response of commuters?
The amount of people relying on direct buses. Is it gonna be 4 transfers instead of a direct bus in future? What about the elderly and disabled? Do they have to change multiple MRT lines and buses in future? Is it feasible?

Samuel Lee SG

My issue lies basically over 3 areas.

Are the current infrastructure able to cope with the splitting? As for now, I don't see LTA taking any action to improve capacity at Int/Ter(s) particularly in the City area.

The 3rd point:

For the elderly, it may (might) be do good for them IF the first bus kena no seat. Then alight at 5 stops later to transfer, and while doing so, they got a seat in bus-stop. The second bus is not as crowded, so got a seat for the next X number of stop..........

Compared to the whole journey have no seat due to no give way, or there are other elderly as well and the remaining seats need to go up a stairs etc, not convinent mah.

But the disabled can be a major issue. It may means asking 4 BC/SLs to get their passengers to make way for PIWs due to different buses.

XiaoTaro SG

Hmm, regarding the cutting down of transport fares, i might not really agree...
Basically, as there wont be any major changes to the bus transit system other than switching to through-fare and cutting some long routes, the operation cost of the whole bus transit system will still be about the same.

As mentioned before, the through-fare system is supposed to bring along cost savings to passengers making transfers by not penalising them when they make transfer(s).

So, where does this cost savings come from, since the operation cost is still the same? Could it come from passengers not making transfers? Will they have to pay more in order to balance out?

Also another point is for feeder and intratown/townlink services, will the passengers continue to pay a flat-fare or also change to a through-fare system? If its a through-fare system, wouldn't intratown/townlink services be useless since they tend to take a longer route to the other side of the town compared to trunk routes.

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