I just observe that it's very rare for Christians to possess
great reasoning skills because there is a tendency to use
scripture, even (!), to justify certain behavior as faith acts when
they are clearly out of the realm of sound common sense.
The Bible is perfect, but our interpretation and our reading of
it may not.
Church history has shown that some applications of the Word (or
lack of understanding) create more problems than the good it
intended. Despite good intentions, they fail. Good example? Alcohol
and The Prohibition in the USA. It resulted in more bad than
good.
You know... I suspect you are very much in the organic church
movement, which I'll come back to, later.
I guess my question IS very much related to the thread at hand
where a church like CHC definitely practice some sort of top-down
authority structure where submission is a big deal. Nobody wants to
report on a potentially boo-boo. And they can't, unless they are
willing to be ridiculed in the open and risk losing the support
group and friends you have made over a span of time.
I previously come from another megachurch, and I have a big
problem with submission there. I never thought it was a problem,
until I started serving and started being considered for
leadership. In this church I was formerly in, there are 2 standards
- 1 for the common congregation where there is abundant grace and
no "legal" standards or any expectations are meted out on you. But
when you become a leader and serving, everything changes.
It brought out the worst in me.
It was also a culture shock for me and it made me doubt
everything about the church, because I couldn't accept an
unconditional submission. Not only that, there were plenty of
opportunities for abuse, mis-guidance and unaccountable things like
running your life and hijacking your decision making-process in
matters such as (career choice, which company to join, who to date
in church, etc.). It was messy!
And so began my journey - with the current news about CHC, it
made me think about this even more. While the verdict isn't out yet
on KH and the others, controversy has a way of getting our
attention and creating a situation where we need to ask questions
what we previously took for granted.
I even attended an organic church, but instead I found that
there might be some things about submission to authority that might
be legit. I found out that despite having a lack of named authority
structure in organic churches, there IS still an unspoken respect
for the "cell leader"/"senior pastor" of that group. There are
clear unspoken rules of conduct and a very distinct and clear
recognition of the "leader of the group / "alpha male" of the
"pack" / "captain of the ship". It was no different from the
previous situation. It doesn't matter if there are titles or not,
but the fact remains that the structure still exist in an organic
church setting - hence, like certain unchangeable things explained
in the Bible, I find by observation, that authority and structure
do exist.
The issue of the "curse" from non-compliance to submission to
elders in church and being outside the covering... Well, let's just
say: I'm not doing too hot right now. but I wonder if it was a
self-fulfilled prophecy arising from pre-programmed
expectation/conditioning of my sub-conscious to self-sabotage. I
find it VERY difficult to reconcile it all.
At the moment, I am at another church, trying to get a second
opinion. But I am PRETTY SURE that this church also practices
submission one way or another just by observation. So, as an added
precaution, I am avoiding close contact with the leaders there and
only mixing around with 1 or 2 folks who aren't too "on fire" with
God. If I'm not serving or too involved in a group, I cannot have
any chance of trangressing "submission". It's the safest
option.
As you can see, it didn't produce the right fruit of Christian
Submission in its true spirit. I'm just messing around with the
legal loopholes (if I'm not serving or fully involvde in a small
group, I'm not legally obliged to submit; and there are PLENTY of
"lukewarm" church goers. If I should be penalized, they shall also
be penalized and I doubt any leader will come out and make a
sweeping expectation on them to "submit". They can only "encourage"
participation and "encourage" certain behavior, but NOT ENFORCE
it.)
And with a thing like submission - it gives a person tremendous
power - and so the opportunity for power struggles, envy and
jealousy. (am reminded of the arugment of "who is the greatest?"
among the disciples in the Gospels. Servant-leadership preached by
churches are only a theory rarely an application I observed. Only
on the lower rungs of the church ladder or some leader in some
obscure ministry within the church who is truly free from
encumbrances of self-congratulatory servanthood.)
It sucks, because it seems like any little thing is liable for
other to be rubbed the wrong way and cause one to be cast out and
isolated in a small group. There's always a few who dominate and I
let them do it. It's simply too risky to come out and participate
in the things of God in a deeper way, because there is always a
political fight in the end - happens both in a grace based church
or non-grace based church, it doesn't matter. At least this is my
experience.
What are your thoughts? And what do you think the wise thing to
do for a person in my current situation.
I know you have a high capacity for intelligent discussion, so I
am very interested to hear your opinion, because I lose most people
halfway with this topic.
Thank you for sharing so much so freely.
I agree with you that once you are in leadership position,
things can be very different. We can see things that we know should
not be so. Somehow the pecking order so accepted in the corporate
world does not seem to fit into the church, but nevertheless many
are of the view that there is simply no other way to do things,
since the church today is very much modeled after the corporate
world.
Unconditional submission to church leaders is certainly foreign
to the teaching of the New Testament. Many feel uncomfortable with
it yet they somehow lack the information to counter proof texts
like Heb 13:7 which are often used to silence any internal critic.
Of course there is the much touted "Who is your covering?" that has
guilt-tripped many believers into thinking that if they do not have
a leader lording over them then they are fodder for the devil's
minions and out of protection and favour with God.
Whether one is in an institutional church or an organic church,
authority, submission, leadership and structure are terms that one
will come into contact, but I submit that the concepts can be
rather different. The point is to recapture the NT meaning of these
words and flesh them out in our church life, something perhaps
easier said then done. Leaders exist in the organic churches but
they are, and should be, functional, not positional. One leads by
example and maturity and faithfulness to the teaching of the Word.
The "structure" that exists in an organic church is likened after
the human body, and not that of the business corporation. But so
long as you find yourself in an institutional church setting, the
corporate idea of bottom-up submission along the chain of command
is inevitable, and uncomfortable. I am of the view that when one
tries to follow the Scripture and encounters problems, there are
Scriptural solutions to Scriptural "problems". But it is difficult
to solve modern church problems caused by adherence to a corporate
model using the solutions in the Scripture, simply because church
in the NT was never intended to be institutional and patterned
after the corporate world.
What should you do then? But if I may suggest this, that you
take time to "rethink the wineskin" and form Biblical convictions
about what church is. This would involve much reading (and I
suspect you are already doing that) and reflection. And let the
Holy Spirit guide your thoughts from there.
