They Say, We Say: Evidence of the Obvious

last SG · 2011-10-06T05:32:59+00:00

So.. you guys talking to yourselves ?Where is the one who started this thread?

gorgorlokaychyong SG

there is definitely no proof of god's existence.

its fear that drive people to that belief.

the fear of death and whats after death.

somehow, what you said makes sense.

Susanteo2011 SG

there is definitely no proof of god's existence.

its fear that drive people to that belief.

the fear of death and whats after death.

the Human Ego and Desire to Exist led to the creations of religions..............think about it and instinctively, you know it's true.

people can't accept that after their physical lives ended, they'll be gone and forgotten............. they feel they're special and their lives mean something............that ego, the fear of dying and the desire to exist created the idea of a permanent soul/self......................they think they're separate and different from all others...........

but then they've seen and know people suffer physical deaths..............so they thought '' Ah Ha ! there must be an Eternal After-Life after my mortal life ends !''

but where will that After-Life be at ?..................so people think it must be a most pleasurable and happy place since who wants to live Eternally in a shithole, right ?...............so let's call that dreamed-up Utopia........Heaven !

so the next question will be WHO created Heaven ??? well, just as Man has to create the tools he needs..........then SOMEONE must have created Man and Heaven and everything else !

so.........HEY PRESTO !!!............let's call this dreamed-up Creator/Maker...........God............

that's the reason why all religions contained stories that's far far too HUMAN to be Divine.............plus full of loopholes and flaws...........

Rooney9 SG

You know.. just because nobody refutes your so called paradoxes and fallacies, does not mean that your are right.lol

Maybe to people of equal or below your intelligence, sure. Unless you are content with just arguing childishly in forums.

And when it comes to debating or at least challening religion, you need to have more than just flimsy Superman in DC comics argument. I mean really ? You dont see me going around telling other Buddhist their own paradoxes eventhough it is the paradoxes that they themselves thrive in it. E.g The emptiness of which Buddhists speak of, paradoxically, is also the source of all fullness.

When you speak of your realisation, the biggest drawback to realisation is that you can't give it to anyone. It cannot be explained, no matter how clearly you see it; it is ineffable and paradoxical.

And that is only the Zen school of Buddhism I am talking about. Let me elaborate further. Zen stresses the importance of getting beyond the artificial confinement of words and concepts to what simply "Is." Similarly, the approach to Christian mysticism would relate to is the apophatic one- to simply stop trying to imagine and out-think "God" allowing whatever "Is" to manifest within for you

In case you still don't understand, The Buddha was not a Buddhist. Same with The Christ was not a Christian.They both realised something that others hadn't and attempted to communicate their experiences using 'Language' with all its limitations.

The result is unenlightened men having since created dead religions using these communications.

So chill. And bring you crusade somewhere else. Or history will repeat itself outside the walls of Jerusalem.

cannot be explained hence no need to explain but I wonder how come science can explain to the masses such as evaporation, there are microbes and bateria unseen by the naked eye. that is why evidence based truth is better than the concept of god anytime. physics is the language of truth as the scientists said.

so many flaws and yet you chose to be blind to the inconsistencies, I really have to hand it to you. to each his own I suppose. selective deduction or reasoning I suppose.

if you want to question emptiness or any other teachings in buddhist forum, by all means go ahead, but make sure you understand the subject matter you want to discuss. dun be like Rony Tan, who is ignorant of other faiths and can preach other religions and faiths are satanic and false. I certainly hope you are much better than him in this sense.

a case in point. how can a planet the size of earth be created in 6 days? if u know quatum physics, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, just like the protons and molecules.

Rooney9 SG

the Human Ego and Desire to Exist led to the creations of religions..............think about it and instinctively, you know it's true.

but then they've seen and know people suffer physical deaths..............so they thought '' Ah Ha ! there must be an Eternal After-Life after my mortal life ends !''

so the next question will be WHO created Heaven ??? well, just as Man has to create the tools he needs..........then SOMEONE must have created Man and Heaven and everything else !

so.........HEY PRESTO !!!............let's call this dreamed-up Creator/Maker...........God............

that's the reason why all religions contained stories that's far far too HUMAN to be Divine.............plus full of loopholes and flaws...........

I like your too human to be divine is very true. the concept of god was created by man, period.

BadzMaro SG

so many flaws and yet you chose to be blind to the inconsistencies, I really have to hand it to you. to each his own I suppose. selective deduction or reasoning I suppose.

a case in point. how can a planet the size of earth be created in 6 days? if u know quatum physics, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, just like the protons and molecules.

I dont think U understand what I am trying to convey to you. Or as a matter of fact, the subject matter of Quantumn Physics. And yes, I attempt and at least DO understand the subject matter before mouthing of like you know it all. And at least I am willing to learn and understand and continue to learn and understand, instead of being stuck in such a childish thought thinking how smart u are, when u are actually not.

And I am glad you brought up the topic on Quantumn Mechanics. In physics, the study of Quatum Mechanics is the study of the smallest elements and forces of matter and how they react and interact thus creates all that we know.

There are a few schools of thought regarding Quantum Mechanics and how those small elements are. Are they particles ? In some experemints they behave like how a particle should behave. Or are they waves , because in other experiments, they behave like wave should. But how can this be ? Wave and Particles are two different thought of realities. Some school of thought believes that they are both wave AND particles. Some describe it as wave particles. The particle wave duality theory of Quantum Mechanics.

We know about atoms. We understand how they act and react = atomic bomb. So now we know Atom is not smallest thing in the universe in the eality. They are made out of small particles or waves or substances or realities, and these are made up of small energy forces. N we know it is electromagnetic force or light that holds electroncs and protons together in atoms which hold them together to form molecules , hence light holds them together. Smaller n smaller and they are held together and interect in ways not known to the universe. Quantum particles operate outside reality and space.

We know that when they are stimulated in any way, they instantly cause and effect and reaction to other small parts associated with it. It does not matter if they are of great distance. It is though they are tied together by an invisible energy or some may say some unknown or immeasurable thought processes. This is called the Entanglement Theory. Sepculating that everything happened in out big instant.

In addition to this phenomenon we have no way to precisely know where and when these small parts will be in any particular location or state. We can only speak about it in possibilities. Repeated measurements of the same quantum state is often different. It may be that the act of measurement itself that causes its change. This is called the MEasurement Problem. The smaller u go.. less and less we know as real exist. Time space and matter seems to disappear into nothingness.

Philosophically it is challenging because since we live in a real world with tangible objects existing in Time Space and Reality, we know that our reality is made up of particles that seem to recede into nothingness. And they operate outside time space realities and natural laws of the material world. Welcome to the connenderum of Quantum Mechanics.

All other scientific theory, we have tangible model on how we THINK things work. QUantum Mechanics Theory only tell us how probability changes in time. Are u trying to say u fully understand Quantum Mechanics? Do u have a particular Theory that you full understand and stick to it ? Or are u open for possibilties that you may NOT even understand how Quantum Mechanics work?

One thing is certain. As much as we do know about our world, our relaity and universe, there is an infinite universe of information we DO NOT KNOW. Therefore we are like Ants, looking at the moon at night, wishing we can touch that big bright light in the world. We can see it, but we cant even remotely understand it, or it's distance from it nor the element of space, nor as an ability of an ant to touch it. But we try.. and touch it anyways. Hence that is our plight in grasping the vastness of information concerning Quantum Mechanics Reality.

If you fail to understand the basics of Quantum Mechanics, I fear you WILL fail to understand anything I am trying to convey to you. You can say I am stupid, or ignorant, but my posts will prove otherwise.

I wont even bother quoting Biblical verses supporting the theory, which there are. Because for someone like you who already refuse to believe or even accept the remote possibilities, I save myself a few paragraphs for your sake. Some say that instead of debating on your terms and on your grounds, I should step back and use the Bible as my ground stand on. Or at least find a neutral ground. But I am giving u the benefit of the doubt by stepping into YOUR position arguing from your understanding of Quantum Physics. Since you seem to regard yourself so highly on the subject matter.

And oh by the way, I dont know how u can compare me to Rony Tan, another point I should point out on your error in analogy. But I am not gonna go down there and discredit you.

Oh one more thing, its always good to accept constructive criticsm. Because you can improve be it on your crusade to discredit all religions or particularly: Christianity, or whaver you will be doing. You can learn a thing or two, because your argument is weak at best. And as u grow, your mind and thought processes have to improve. And you can only improve when shown the errors of your ways and accept it, instead of blaming everyone that does not agree with u as blind to the Truth. Lets not even go down to what your understanding of Truth is. =) .

So unless the Grand Unified Theory (GUT) is complete or at least successful in theory, we have alot to learn and understand.

Oh and on why I dont go to the Buddhist Form to question them is because there is no need to at this moment of my understanding, not because I am all knowing, but because I respect the Buddhist in what they do and what they are trying to achieve. I do no interfere nor do I criticise. I give them the respect they deserve.

ThunderFbolt SG

a case in point. how can a planet the size of earth be created in 6 days? if u know quatum physics, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, just like the protons and molecules.

Just to add on to BadzMaro. The statement that "Energy cannot be created or destroyed (but can be transferred from one form to another)" is the from the law of conservation of energy. It is not derived from QM, QM uses it.

Protons and molecules, which are matter, can be destroyed. There is the mass-energy equivalence and, taking positron-electron annihilation as an example, matter can be completed converted to energy, essentially being "destroyed".

Regarding formation of planets, I think it falls under Physical Cosmology. But the study of the formation of planets is not linked to the study of formation of particles.

Susanteo2011 SG

Regarding formation of planets, I think it falls under Physical Cosmology. But the study of the formation of planets is not linked to the study of formation of particles.

protons and subatomic particles are found to be made of energy...........

that's why scientists say there's no physical reality..............and that the universe is just a hologram.............

that's why Buddha said...........''all forms are unreal and illusive............''

Stmcom sham99 SG

From the starter of this thread,

to all who commented (good or bad)

i don't push you to believe on God (the creator of the universe and fortunately, the creator of your life). i just let you know, it's up to you to believe on Him or not. I believe, that believing on God is not based by anything else but by yourself alone with the grace of God of course.

About religion, let me say something on that. True Christians should understand that religion is not a savior and not all the way to the savior.

One thing that i observe by what most ministers and so called priests and pastors (but i'm not against them, instead praying for them for a change) really make profit out of thier founded denomination and other religious organization. Truly God blesses the cheerful giver but let not be the blessing be for greediness.

many ministers, pastors, priests and others, put up religious organization and defining WHO GOD IS?

you know, i for one, cannot understand what they are talking about, about God until, I, alone, searching who am i to God?

Let me give you this example. Religious people are defining God as a big ocean. How? they define Him as kind, generous God, loving God, and so on. but do you think you understand them all?

YOu know, we as persons are compared to a glass, and if God is like an ocean which religious filling in to us as (glasses). we can never accomodate the ocean. there, we can never understand God.

Right, God is really big. bigger than any problem or any other name (Read your Bible, as i had told you, better if you search alone. it means you're sincere.)

now what should we do? or what should i do?

simple, as a glass, emmerse yourself, myself in the ocean and you will really understand your/my God, our God.

where you are in, there you will understand the place. but you and i cannot understand the place if it is just and imagination. because God is more than imagination.

another point that i want to reestablish here is what does faith means?

it's upon you to define what is faith in your life.

but let me share your what faith means to me, it really changes a lot of me and that's why i never give up with this even no matter what happen. because this is my own belonging that is gift from God.

Faith is believing for what eyes cannot perceive. that's all. that's how i define. but deep inside me, it is so meaningful.

even if i cannot see my God, i still have faith on Him. even if others are mocking me, laughing at me, or will kill me, never shall i surrender because Faith is believing for what eyes cannot perceive.

even if my prayers are not yet answered, still i believe that it is in progress.

even if my sorrounding is falling apart, or my nation is falling down, people arround me are dying, or any worst thing to be happen, still i have faith on God.

that's Faith for me.

but then, that's just for me, even if i share so much thing with this for you, if you don't have your own. you cannot understand what i am talking about.

Lastly, in summary my friend, you are responsible for your life. your pastor or priest or imam or friend or even i cannot do anything for your life except for one thing, to help or guide you understand who you are to Him, to God. but as what i had said, be PERSONAL on your spiritual life on GOD.

Cheer up, God loves you my friend. See you in Heaven.

dragg SG

is god really loving?

if you read the old testament you will know he kills a lot.

Susanteo2011 SG

is god really loving?

if you read the old testament you will know he kills a lot.

in that old book of fairytales called the ''Old Testicle-ment''...............

God...............that made-up character is an old bloodthirsty psychopath.............

the old fool has a fetish for foreskins...................Moses almost kana killed becoz he never potong...............

gorgorlokaychyong SG

From the starter of this thread,

to all who commented (good or bad)

About religion, let me say something on that. True Christians should understand that religion is not a savior and not all the way to the savior.

many ministers, pastors, priests and others, put up religious organization and defining WHO GOD IS?

you know, i for one, cannot understand what they are talking about, about God until, I, alone, searching who am i to God?

Let me give you this example. Religious people are defining God as a big ocean. How? they define Him as kind, generous God, loving God, and so on. but do you think you understand them all?

YOu know, we as persons are compared to a glass, and if God is like an ocean which religious filling in to us as (glasses). we can never accomodate the ocean. there, we can never understand God.

Right, God is really big. bigger than any problem or any other name (Read your Bible, as i had told you, better if you search alone. it means you're sincere.)

now what should we do? or what should i do?

simple, as a glass, emmerse yourself, myself in the ocean and you will really understand your/my God, our God.

where you are in, there you will understand the place. but you and i cannot understand the place if it is just and imagination. because God is more than imagination.

another point that i want to reestablish here is what does faith means?

it's upon you to define what is faith in your life.

Faith is believing for what eyes cannot perceive. that's all. that's how i define. but deep inside me, it is so meaningful.

even if my prayers are not yet answered, still i believe that it is in progress.

even if my sorrounding is falling apart, or my nation is falling down, people arround me are dying, or any worst thing to be happen, still i have faith on God.

that's Faith for me.

but then, that's just for me, even if i share so much thing with this for you, if you don't have your own. you cannot understand what i am talking about.

Cheer up, God loves you my friend. See you in Heaven.

All you said are all theory. Theory and reality does differs sometimes or most of the time.

One man's meat is another man's poison.

Susanteo2011 SG

god is my dog.........................

gangsterkillar SG

protons and subatomic particles are found to be made of energy...........

that's why scientists say there's no physical reality..............and that the universe is just a hologram.............

that's why Buddha said...........''all forms are unreal and illusive............''

Buddha only say "kwan yin, come suck my cock!"

Susanteo2011 SG

Buddha only say "kwan yin, come suck my cock!"

aiyah.........so fast cannot come up with inteliigent or witty comments liao ah..........

i don't blame you.........

brainwashed, mindless christians mired in wishful thinking got no imagination and wisdom...............

sgdiehard SG

aiyah.........so fast cannot come up with inteliigent or witty comments liao ah..........

i don't blame you.........

brainwashed, mindless christians mired in wishful thinking got no imagination and wisdom...............

hehehe....the pot calling the kettle black.

Susanteo2011 SG

hehehe....the pot calling the kettle black.

hellooooo.........my comments all much more witty hor.........

also makes more sense mah..............

laurence82 SG

hellooooo.........my comments all much more witty hor.........

also makes more sense mah..............

to be honest, they are better with words, knowing how to twist it around

hurhur

Susanteo2011 SG

to be honest, they are better with words, knowing how to twist it around

hurhur

then they should get an AH NEH to be the pope......................

the pope answers to the ''Black Pope'' anyway..................

the Black Pope is the real boss..................the White one just a frontman...........

Rooney_07 SG

to be honest, they are better with words, knowing how to twist it around

hurhur

I am fine with twisting, but the way they twisted the facts to fit their faith is like hur hur, hur hur.

Tcmc SG

First of all I don't understand why christians believe everything in the bible.

1. Bible has been changed many times and definitely different from earlier versions.

2. The ORIGINAL scriptures have never been found so it's impossible to know if modern bibles has the same content as what the disciples of jesus read 2000 years ago.

So no one can be sure if the modern bibles are what the disciples read 2000 years ago. Just read the bible with a pinch of salt.

« Previous Page Next Page »