faith & works

last SG · 2009-01-21T08:50:34+00:00

To be more accurate, the bible teaches that we are saved by faith and works (what we do or not do after we receive and accept the gift of faith). Salvation d...

sillyme SG

hmm.. but the 10 commandments were never meant to provide for salvation.. as said in romans? the 10 commandments could only judge and condemn, and through the commandments, sin is revealed, thus condemning us

Agree. The 10 Commandments are not meant for salvation. The Israelites were saved from the Egyptians before the Commandments were given.

Creation1656 SG

Originally posted by sillyme:

Can someone define salvation without using the words 'faith' and 'works'?

Hashem is my salvation.

The LORD is my strength and song,
And He has become my salvation; Exodus 15:2 NASB.

dumbdumb! SG

I mean that by abiding in Jesus, you mean to do what He ask us to do? Or simply to follow His commandment?

abiding i've taken it as having a relationship with him

dumbdumb! SG

Agree. The 10 Commandments are not meant for salvation. The Israelites were saved from the Egyptians before the Commandments were given.

but smarty boy says works is needed as a prerequisite of salvation.

sillyme SG

Hashem is my salvation.

The LORD is my strength and song,
And He has become my salvation; Exodus 15:2 NASB.

Amen

sillyme SG

but smarty boy says works is needed as a prerequisite of salvation.

I thought it is a broken and contrite heart.

Chin Eng SG

I thought it is a broken and contrite heart.

Amen

Smarty Boy SG

but smarty boy says works is needed as a prerequisite of salvation.

Well, it is not what I said or what others said that is important. It is what make sense to you according to the bible that is important. Like some "old bird" it is what the overall teaching and message that the bible gives (something like this) that is important.

Put aside whatever denomination and search why each said what they are saying....look at why Paul said what he did and what he did not. The era he is in, the traditions of his audience and the circumstances behind. It is tought and tedious but if you want to be very sure, you need to go deeper.

Surely, Paul was not the only one preaching and not everyone will just sit and listen to him....and what is the theme of his entire collections of letters? Is he preaching what Christ did in the 4 Gospels?

According to a protestant church, not doing good works is to deny Christ! Strong words but true....surely you cannot say you have faith when you you deny Christ, can you?

Still, the questions left unaswered to you is what is faith to you....the faith that will save you. If you already have the answer, good for you. If you have not, search for it..... Good luck!

dumbdumb! SG

According to a protestant church, not doing good works is to deny Christ! Strong words but true....surely you cannot say you have faith when you you deny Christ, can you?

Still, the questions left unaswered to you is what is faith to you....the faith that will save you. If you already have the answer, good for you. If you have not, search for it..... Good luck!

then i have found my answer. which makes sense, and is supported biblically. i'm just.. surprised why when the bible says smth which is clear, you can't accept it as it is.

Chin Eng SG

then i have found my answer. which makes sense, and is supported biblically. i'm just.. surprised why when the bible says smth which is clear, you can't accept it as it is.

i think we got the same bible.... 8-)

Smarty Boy SG

then i have found my answer. which makes sense, and is supported biblically. i'm just.. surprised why when the bible says smth which is clear, you can't accept it as it is.

Yeah,ok then. I accepted it as it is like you but just that we look at faith differently.

Smarty Boy SG

i think we got the same bible.... 8-)

So for you salvation = faith leading to good works?

dumbdumb! SG

So for you salvation = faith leading to good works?

that's pretty much what all protestants believe actually.

Chin Eng SG

So for you salvation = faith leading to good works?

in a nutshell... yes.

dumbdumb! SG

Yeah,ok then. I accepted it as it is like you but just that we look at faith differently.

no.. you look at faith the way the pope says it is.

i read the bible and decide for myself logically with what is written. that's the difference in my conviction and yours.

and understanding abit of the jewish customs, and how God arranges the priest to perform the sin offering etc. it all fits.

yours don't.

but hey, can't blame, when you all believe that only the church leader is the only person who is trusted to be able to interpret the bible correctly.

things i think u can consider (from the bible, not cathecism class):

what is God's standard of holiness?

what is the law?

what is sin?

what is the consequence of sin?

what is did God provide for the israelites for the consequences of sin?

what did God provide for the world for the consequences of sin?

what is needed to receive this provision from God?

dumbdumb! SG

i think we got the same bible.... 8-)

of course. same word of God, same number of books, same number of prophets, and same number of salvation plan.

Smarty Boy SG

that's pretty much what all protestants believe actually.

Yes, pretty much the same but some believed only in faith alone only. To me, there is some difference..... I am not sure about you.

Which is why I asked you, if you take out leading to good works, is there still salvation? If faith alone then no need to include leading to good works right? My understanding from some protestant friends is that leading to good works is to prove that the faith is true. (to me back to what I am trying to explain)

But then contradictions happens (about what is the state of faith at profession since we need to see that leading to good works to prove it is true) and we will go on and on..... I am not sure of your view of this.......which is why I said the question is how we look at faith that saves us.

Some truely believed that faith alone saved liao. Leading to good works etc...is another story but saved liao...confirm go heaven. All you need to do is to say it (lips service).

Chin Eng SG

of course. same word of God, same number of books, same number of prophets, and same number of salvation plan.

got plan A and plan B....???

dumbdumb! SG

got plan A and plan B....???

nope. same number of salvation plan. One.

Sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone")

Sola fide ("by faith alone")

Sola gratia ("by grace alone")

Solus Christus ("Christ alone")

Soli Deo gloria ("glory to God alone")

dumbdumb! SG

Yes, pretty much the same but some believed only in faith alone only. To me, there is some difference..... I am not sure about you.

Some truely believed that faith alone saved liao. Leading to good works etc...is another story but saved liao...confirm go heaven. All you need to do is to say it (lips service).

everything starts of with lip service.

i believe that receiving Christ is the first step, and that's "lip service" for everyone. everyone who puts their faith in Christ does so by professing that faith.

unfortunately, with regards to work, it still boils down to what Christ is doing in their lives, God's purpose for them, and the time factor.

someone who puts their faith in Christ and dies the next minute, is he not saved because he has no chance to prove his faith through work?

is someone whose calling is to pray for others, less saved when compared to someone who led thousands to Christ in africa?

is someone who is struggling with smoking less saved than someone who has never been tempted in that area?

is the prostitute, saved the moment she believes in the love and salvation of Christ, or is she saved only after she wiped Jesus' feet with her tears and hair?

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