Why Do God Have To Create (The Devil - Satan) and humans

last SG · 2006-11-12T19:01:55+00:00

Revelation 20:10 NIV And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. The...

Icemoon SG

not as if the souls will worship him in hell .. everyone will be suffering in the lake of fire .. and they will blame Lucifer for misleading them.

I think he too boliao liao. He is like the prisoner on dead row. You know you gonna die, so you do everything to make yourself shiok. Sit back also die (angels no salvation), wreck havoc also die. He has only one life to die.

Laughing

Skibi SG

Im not so sure about the angels no salvation part. (bible does not say) Btw if there can be one Lucifer, is there any assurance there wouldn't be a second or a third?

solomon1983 SG

According to bible: One Red Dragon,one Beast,one fake Prophet Shocked

Which is Satan? Mr. Green

Skibi SG

Originally posted by sillyme:
God's omniscience is a very difficult subject to touch on. It touches on something we, as humans, will never understand.

I will try to share my view.

Being omniscient means knowing all things, even things beyond human reasoning. God doesn't predict the future. He does know the future based on the path His creation has chosen. It is based on an action and consequence relationship.

When Man fell, He knows the full plan of Salvation for Man. And He chose to reveal it to us.

When Satan chose to act against God, He knows Satan will ultimately be brought to judgment. This is revealed in Revelations. In this sense, it is not "predicting" but revealing His will. And what He says, it will come to past.

That's a good way of saying God doesn't know the future. Since mortals as free agents have the liberty to change their paths as and when they like.

sillyme SG

Ultimately, God has a sovereign plan. It is for His creation to seek His will and He will unfold it. Nothing is above this plan.

M©+square SG

That's a interesting way to phrase.

In this biblical Character in Genesis - Joseph?
What is God's will in Joseph's life?

Skibi SG

Yes this is true. God will shape the future of those that serve him wholeheartedly. It may not be what we think we want but as Paul said...

"
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

-Romans 8:28 ESV
"

sillyme SG

Hmm... let's see...

Joseph was rejected by his brothers. He was sold to Egypt. Then he became second to the Pharoah.

In all these events, Joseph did not grow bitter nor did he turn his back on God. Through this, he was able to rise up from the pit, literally and figuratively. He was used by God to prepare Egypt for the famine. At the same time and more importantly, the children of Israel was able to survive through the famine too.

Icemoon SG

Flawed argument .. because God is outside time.

You cannot subject God to a past-present-future analysis. From a human perspective, however, God has already known the future. This knowledge was already there even before mankind was created at some point in time.

So, from our perspective, the covenant of redemption was already established. The elect were already chosen.

Jesus came down to save his sheeps, not mankind. John 10:15 says the Lord lay down His life for the sheep.

M©+square SG

On which part of Joseph's life do you think God came in and used Joseph for the famine?
Rephrase : The Divine intervention, guidance was evident in which part of Joseph's life?

And on which part do you think God is not in the picture at all?

Let's say, if Joseph were to react the opposite of what you've stated on his attitude and his relationship with God.
Do you think God will pick another 'Joseph'?

Wink

Icemoon SG

Mc2 asking killer questions. Rolling Eyes

M©+square SG

Where got?!?!?!?!?!?! Mad

Me ish a lamb! Embarassed

Skibi SG

Originally posted by Icemoon:

Flawed argument .. because God is outside time.

You cannot subject God to a past-present-future analysis. From a human perspective, however, God has already known the future. This knowledge was already there even before mankind was created at some point in time.

So, from our perspective, the covenant of redemption was already established. The elect were already chosen.

Jesus came down to save his sheeps, not mankind. John 10:15 says the Lord lay down His life for the sheep.

no biblical basis? Rolling Eyes

Salvation is for everyone(mankind). If the elect were already chosen there would be no need for the following command to preach the gospel to the world.

"
18And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[b] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

-Matthew 28:18-20"
"

sillyme SG

tough questions leh Evil or Very Mad

I believe that as we submit to God's authority actively, God will use us. If we seek Him actively, He will change us.

For Joseph's situation, I believe that in his life that is recorded, God was always with him.

I cannot give a good answer to the situation if Joseph had different attitude. I am not sure if there would be another 'Joseph'. I could only assume that God chose to reveal His plans in Joseph's dream of the brothers' sheaves bowing to his. And God remained faithful to this revelation.

ADD: The above was in response to your original post.

I believe God intervened numerously in his life. I can only name a few.

He revealed His plans in the dream of the sheaves.

He prevented Joseph from being killed.

He helped Joseph resist temptation from Pontiphar's wife.

He helped Joseph find favour with the prison warden.

He gave Joseph the gift of interpreting dreams.

boy, I am tired... so brain-wrecking... need... sleep can or not ah? Mr. Green

Icemoon SG

Of course got biblical basis. God referred to Himself as I AM. And for God to give prophecies mean He must not be confined by time. Duh!

Salvation is not for everyone. Your quote does not disagree with my view because the elect has already been predestined. As a Christian, you are to spread the gospel. The Holy Spirit convicts the elect. Obviously it can't be the Holy Spirit convicts everyone because not all will respond.

Salvation is never for everyone. Heard of total depravity? There is no way mankind will respond to the gospel because he is fallen. It is not his nature to accept the gospel and Christ due to his sinful and fallen state. Hence it is fallacious to state salvation is for everyone when no-one can receive it on their own. It is not a "please claim your gift" kind of thing (this version of salvation is cheapo and mocks the sovereignity of God, don't you think so?)

So the only way is for God to make the first move, so to speak. So before you can receive salvation, you must be regenerated (by the Holy Spirit).

Seen in this light, suddenly a lot of things make more sense. Like the question who did Jesus die for? How come he die for the world (your claim) but we still must believe in him? Did Jesus shed His blood to try his luck hopefully many people will respond? How come salvation is so easy? Why Christianity so "cheap"?

To the last question, Christianity is not "cheap" because Jesus shed His blood for His sheeps. Every drip from Calvary counts. Nothing is wasted. Wink

I know what you will reply. Biblical basis right? Ok, here's it. Notice this was what you quoted, but you ignored the later parts!

Romans 8:

28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[j] who[k] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

M©+square SG

Just want your opinion that's all.

You replied using my unedited post. How long have you been thinking? Laughing

Good night Wink

Icemoon SG

So anticlimax. Laughing

M©+square SG

He ask can sleep or not liao. What do you expect me to do.... Laughing

Icemoon SG

Your pattern is to reply "we continue next time" .. not meh? Laughing

M©+square SG

I can see Sillyme not interested to discuss further.
Don't you sense it? Laughing

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