Father Malachi Martin

vince69 SG

I asked already, still awaiting for answer... Sad

Pope Nicholas SG

Fine...since 33AD...ever heard of rounding up.

Contraception in essence is evil. Thats what every Church till the 1930s believed inh. We stand alone now 70yrs later.

If u wish to know why it is evil, it can be sum up in 1 sentence: Contraception is sinful because its separates life from love.

If u want bibical references, here it is one,

Gen. 38:8-10 - Onan is killed by God for practicing contraception (in this case, withdrawal) and spilling his semen on the ground.

Icemoon SG

Your argument using life and love is fallacious. because you can have life without love. think harder ..

Scripture did not tell us the exact reason why Onan was killed. In fact you have committed the fallacy of "correlation implies causation" here.

Pope Nicholas SG

The purpose of love is to create life.

Here is the link which biblical reference in support of contraception is bad

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/contraception.html

Answer me, Why did every Protestant church view contraception was evil till 1930. Some protestant denom even say masturbation is good (my friend) for pleasure is godly.

Icemoon SG

Once again, another fallacy.

Even if the purpose of love is to create life, but when you have a new life it doesn't mean it is a product of love.

Contraception evil till 1930 .. hmm .. maybe when condom was invented they change their mind? Razz

Last time very dangerous to shoot inside the body. Unless you know techniques like the chinese dian xue to expel the semen.

Pope Nicholas SG

"Judah said to Onan, Go in to your brothers wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother. But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brothers wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he slew him also" (Gen. 38:810).

The biblical penalty for not giving your brothers widow children was public humiliation, not death (Deut. 25:710). But Onan received death as punishment for his crime. This means his crime was more than simply not fulfilling the duty of a brother-in-law. He lost his life because he violated natural law, as Jewish and Christian commentators have always understood. For this reason, certain forms of contraception have historically been known as "Onanism," after the man who practiced it, just as homosexuality has historically been known as "Sodomy," after the men of Sodom, who practiced that vice (cf. Gen. 19). ( Cathollic Answers)

So the argument God killed him for using Contraception stands.

Contraception is wrong because its a deliberate violation of the design God built into the human race, often referred to as "natural law." The natural law purpose of sex is procreation. The pleasure that sexual intercourse provides is an additional blessing from God, intended to offer the possibility of new life while strengthening the bond of intimacy, respect, and love between husband and wife. The loving environment this bond creates is the perfect setting for nurturing children.

But sexual pleasure within marriage becomes unnatural, and even harmful to the spouses, when it is used in a way that deliberately excludes the basic purpose of sex, which is procreation. Gods gift of the sex act, along with its pleasure and intimacy, must not be abused by deliberately frustrating its natural endprocreation.

Skibi SG

Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:
"Judah said to Onan, Go in to your brothers wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother. But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brothers wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he slew him also" (Gen. 38:810).

The biblical penalty for not giving your brothers widow children was public humiliation, not death (Deut. 25:710). But Onan received death as punishment for his crime. This means his crime was more than simply not fulfilling the duty of a brother-in-law. He lost his life because he violated natural law, as Jewish and Christian commentators have always understood. For this reason, certain forms of contraception have historically been known as "Onanism," after the man who practiced it, just as homosexuality has historically been known as "Sodomy," after the men of Sodom, who practiced that vice (cf. Gen. 19). ( Cathollic Answers)

So the argument God killed him for using Contraception stands.

Contraception is wrong because its a deliberate violation of the design God built into the human race, often referred to as "natural law." The natural law purpose of sex is procreation. The pleasure that sexual intercourse provides is an additional blessing from God, intended to offer the possibility of new life while strengthening the bond of intimacy, respect, and love between husband and wife. The loving environment this bond creates is the perfect setting for nurturing children.

But sexual pleasure within marriage becomes unnatural, and even harmful to the spouses, when it is used in a way that deliberately excludes the basic purpose of sex, which is procreation. Gods gift of the sex act, along with its pleasure and intimacy, must not be abused by deliberately frustrating its natural endprocreation.

God killed Onan for wanting to have free sex indefinitly with his brother's wife. Essentially commiting adultery over and over again. God looks at the heart and the intention, not the act of contraception. This is a very clear cut substance over form issue.

Pope Nicholas SG

'But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brothers wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother'

Contraceptives or sex indefinitely.......

Skibi SG

Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:
'But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brothers wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother'

Contraceptives or sex indefinitely.......

Which bible are you using?

Genesis 38:9 NIV
But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother.

Very clear that he did it over and over again - he just wanted free sex. Contraception was just a means to achieve his goal of using his brother's wife as a sex buddy. i.e if she got pregnant, no more sex for Onan.

Pope Nicholas SG

He was supposed to have sex with her but he refused to spill his seed in her as he ddint want a child.

Genesis 38:9 NIV
But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother.

He didnt want children..classic case of contraception.

vince69 SG

Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:

He was supposed to have sex with her but he refused to spill his seed in her as he ddint want a child.

Genesis 38:9 NIV
But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, [b]he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother.

He didnt want children..classic case of contraception.[/b]

Actually, He just don't want to have children with his sister-in-law, cause that child wouldn't be his.

He could have married another woman and have children through her, which would be his to keep (but he was struck dead before he could do this)

Pope Nicholas SG

Originally posted by vince69:

Actually, He just don't want to have children with his sister-in-law, cause that child wouldn't be his.
b]

Precisely he didnt want to have children. So he had sex but with the intention of not procretating. He uses contraceptives to prevent that scenario and was struck down. God has never condoned contraceptives and neither did any Christian till 1930s.

Look at ur Protestant Church Fathers

The apostolic traditions condemnation of contraception is so great that it was followed by Protestants until 1930 and was upheld by all key Protestant Reformers. [b]Martin Luther said, "[T]he exceedingly foul deed of Onan, the basest of wretches . . . is a most disgraceful sin. It is far more atrocious than incest and adultery. We call it unchastity, yes, a sodomitic sin. For Onan goes in to her; that is, he lies with her and copulates, and when it comes to the point of insemination, spills the semen, lest the woman conceive. Surely at such a time the order of nature established by God in procreation should be followed. Accordingly, it was a most disgraceful crime. . . . Consequently, he deserved to be killed by God. He committed an evil deed. Therefore, God punished him."

John Calvin said, "The voluntary spilling of semen outside of intercourse between man and woman is a monstrous thing. Deliberately to withdraw from coitus in order that semen may fall on the ground is doubly monstrous. For this is to extinguish the hope of the race and to kill before he is born the hoped-for offspring."

John Wesley warned, "Those sins that dishonor the body are very displeasing to God, and the evidence of vile affections. Observe, the thing which he [Onan] did displeased the Lordand it is to be feared; thousands, especially of single persons, by this very thing, still displease the Lord, and destroy their own souls." (These passages are quoted in Charles D. Provan, The Bible and Birth Control, which contains many quotes by historic Protestant figures who recognize contraceptions evils.)

How has Satan succeeded...Man rationalise sins.

sillyme SG

How come Pope Nich keeps on turning topics to contraception?

Icemoon SG

Correction: he turns every topic into anti-protestant tirade.

vince69 SG

getting sianz about the round about liao...

Icemoon SG

bear with it a little longer .. now is end of month liao. Twisted Evil

vince69 SG

ok loh... you go ahead, me sianz... will cut down liao...

Icemoon SG

I also need to cut down .. have been surfing too much while at work. Embarassed

laoda99 SG

I wonder which bible Skibi uses also....

He seems to have many theories of his own

Pope Nicholas SG

The topic already is anti-catholic. About the Church falling to Satan. Im merely highlighting how can the Catholic Church ( which is supposedly to have fallen away) be the only church advocating the Truth abt contraception.

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