Opinions of atheism

last SG · 2006-09-08T10:07:04+00:00

Is big bang rational? Big bang contridicts with science. Science exists becos the earth follows a pattern or system. If any elemets and energy can bang tog...

stupidissmart SG

Another thing I'd like to ask, is there a concept of morality in Atheism?

Why not ? I obey the law because I understand is usefulness and the implication of compromising within a society. I do not hurt people because I understand wat it feels to be hurt and my compassion do not allow me to do it. I help other because I understand tat it will really help other and make a difference and tis make me happy. I don't do good deeds because they can make me easier go to heaven and I don't do bad deeds because I can go to hell for it. I do it because I really wanna help others. Tat is why atheist live like any other people and don't go around raping or killing people.

SingaporeMacross SG

since you put it that way... the communists and nazis aren't true atheists then...

SingaporeMacross SG

That one is highly possible. We call this Cultural Catholicism.

kaister SG

Communists and nazis were brain-washed btw... they are atheists, just not very good ones. Laughing

Like I've said before, there're always black sheep. Most atheists become what they are by choice, not by influence or because it's cool. And due to this deeper understanding and proactiveness, we take more responsibility for our lives.

So to illustrate my point on how most atheists are well-behaved and law-abiding citizen, I've posted statistics of prison inmates' religion, somewhere earlier in this thread.

SingaporeMacross SG

What's stopping the Christians from doing so?

kaister SG

Dunno. I can't answer for them. Perhaps the more active process of choosing your path is more important than the destination itself.

Chin Eng SG

I am using Singapore only because I cannot think of another country Wink Each country has it's own characteristics and using inmates' purported belief to gauge the effectiveness of that belief is not too accurate.

All I am saying is such US statistics are extremely bias and sometimes it is wrongly used to "prove" a certain point. While some leaders in the US government may claim that they are a Christian nation, the reality is, it is NOT.
Many Americans may claim to go to church, but how many of these are really practicing Christian? In some ways, it is no different from, say, the Philippines, which claim to be a Catholic country. Virtually every Filipino businessman I come across is a womaniser (this is from personal knowledge).

stupidissmart SG

since you put it that way... the communists and nazis aren't true atheists then...

Then can I put all the cults tat uses god in its story as christian ? These cults do mass suicide, prostitute their wife and donate all their money to the cult. Even some othordox christians self inflict pains and wound to themselves as well. So christian do all these ?

stupidissmart SG

All I am saying is such US statistics are extremely bias and sometimes it is wrongly used to "prove" a certain point. While some leaders in the US government may claim that they are a Christian nation, the reality is, it is NOT.
Many Americans may claim to go to church, but how many of these are really practicing Christian? In some ways, it is no different from, say, the Philippines, which claim to be a Catholic country. Virtually every Filipino businessman I come across is a womaniser (this is from personal knowledge).

How do u define a christian/catholic nation then Rolling Eyes In tat case, it seems no country can be labeled as christian or catholic nation. Do buddhist deny thailand as buddhist nation because there r many transevites in thailand....

A dot dot B dot dot SG

You are already in local uni and a member at mensa. I respect you. But some skive-fool guy has not even taken A level, claimed that he will ace it. He also hasn't taken the mensa test, but start boasting that he will bring the mensa card to show off to us.

vince69 SG

I agree with you on this, professed religion is not a good guage to measure a person's conduct, what really boils down is what the person really believed and practiced.

sidetrack; a normal person don't just go around thinking about killing or robbing or raping someone (if you know someone like this, pls do him a favor, send him to the mental hospital, he needs treatment).

ben1xy SG

in any nation that practises freedom of religion and democracy; labelling of that nation as being Buddhist, Christian, etc (unless there is an overwhelming majority) would equivocally result in certain marginalization in a society and political correctness. I reckon the idea of certain nationas being called buddhist or christian will get phased out sooner or later. except vatican city or Muslim countries.

stupidissmart SG

Although I will like to agree with u, I don't think u r really qualified to claim tis. Currently, phillipines is still catholic, US is still christian and thailand is still buddhist. And their population studies really reflects that most of the people r really of such religion

ben1xy SG

I agree with u on the Phillipines bit and Thailand part. The U.S, i'm not really sure. I would however hope that u can proposit what do u deem to be a Chrstian or Buddhist state? A state where there is an overwhelming majority of 1 religion? or a state that outrightly describes itself as Christian or Buddhist nation. I find it deterministic for us to establish our parameters before taking this issue further because this article is something i find interesting.

Chin Eng SG

As much as what some political leaders are declaring, probably hoping to garner some support from certain prominent sectors of the populace, there is really no such thing as a christian or catholic nation. Some leaders of such countries declare themselves fervent followers of these faiths, other leaders are downright immoral.

I'd not comment on whether Thailand can call themselves a buddhist nation because of the transvestites in the country. You know, I don't really like to comment on philosophy outside my own.

Chin Eng SG

Who declares the US as a Christian country? This country has banned "God" and prayers in most schools.

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=Topic&TopicID=10 has this report:
You have opened the research archive about Church attendance. The statistics and analysis in this archive come from national surveys conducted by Barna Research.

How Many

47% of American adults attend church in a typical weekend, not including a special event such as a wedding or a funeral. (2005)
Percentage of adults nationwide who have attended a church service in the past seven days not including a special event such as a wedding or a funeral. 2004-43% 2002-43% 2001-42% 2000-40% 1997-43% 1996-37% 1992-47% 1991-49%

62% of Republicans attended church in a typical weekend compared to 47% of Democrats. (2006)
44% of men nationwide compared with 50% of women have attended a church service, not including a special event such as a wedding or a funeral, in the past seven days. (2006)
Married people are more likely than singles to attend church in a typical weekend: 52% versus 38% respectively. (2006)
Blacks (52%) are the ethnic group most likely to have attended a religious service in the past week, followed by whites (49%), Hispanics (41%), and Asians (29%). (2006)
Catholics and Protestants had virtually the same likelihood of attending church in 2006. Catholics: 2006 55% 2004 51% 2002 46% 2000 49% Protestants: 2006 58% 2004 52% 2002 53% 2000 47%

Mosaics are least likely to attend church in a typical weekend (33%) versus Baby Busters (43%), Baby Boomers (49%), and Elders (54%). (2006)
Attendance levels are still higher in the Bible belt areas the South and Midwest than in the Northeast and West. 54% of those in the Midwest and 51% of those in the South and attend church in a typical week, compared to 41% of those in the Northeast and 39% of those in the West. (2006)

If you live in a household of 10 members and about 6 of them are Christians, would you say that this household is a Christian household?

stupidissmart SG

The phillippines then ? I think it is pretty sure to say it is a catholic nation. Earlier u state tat phillippines cannot be considered as a catholic nation because u get to know some playboy there. Is that a fair statement to make ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/country_profiles/1262783.stm

The church's influence is strong in Asia's largest Catholic nation

http://www.zenit.org/testimonials/index.php?language=english&country=71&sC=Philippines

I mentioned to her that as we are the only Catholic nation in Asia, it was important that we make a clear stand for the dignity of Life and the protection of the unborn who are unable to protect themselves.

http://sify.com/news/international/fullstory.php?id=13721986

The Philippines, Asia's largest Roman Catholic nation, hailed on Wednesday the election of Pope Benedict XVI, with President Gloria Arroyo calling his apppointment a "continuing beacon" for the faithful.

If you live in a household of 10 members and about 6 of them are Christians, would you say that this household is a Christian household?

Tat is a very interesting question. Most of the people r christian. I don't know why it is not a christian household. U r not satisfied with "most", r u only satisfy only with "all" ? Furthermore in america, u can really see signs of christianity on it. In the money, it write "In god we trust" There r many people and politicians in america who wanna label the country as a christian country as well.

kaister SG

Chin Eng, your views are valid but I'm afraid I'm with stupidissmart on this one.

US is a big nation. Undeniably it is a christian country due to the very fact that christians comprise the majority and even their dollar bills propagates christian beliefs - Eg "In God we trust". If that does not count as a christian country, I don't know what is a christian country then.

Furthermore, if we don't take a person's purported belief to guage, what do we use then? Do we judge for that person what religion he/she should belong in? This way of data collection may not be the most effective way as we've seen in cultural catholism but it's still the most reliable way of telling a person's religion. In fact, I think this is the only way to tell a person's religion and belief.

Have you studied statistics before? If numbers are big enough, even a small proportion can be still quite significant in terms of absolute value. A great proportion of American people still go to churches. Not every Filipino male is a womaniser. That's why we use statistics and numbers to back up our claims. There're always black sheeps in any religion or belief, so be glad that behaviours of some are not representative of the group. But neither can one denies such behaviour and rejects them from their religion just because they're "not behaving like a true christians".

Edit: replaced even with enough.

stupidissmart SG

No matter how u say it, america cannot say tat it is not "christian". There have been many occasions, even in modern history, when it really acts as a christian state. Among its people there r many who contend tat america is a christian nation and others who claim it is not. Even among the politician, we can see the same debate over and oevr again

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/FK30Aa04.html

Public opinion-wise, america is consider by many as "chritian nation"

After George W Bush's re-election, few people doubt that the United States is a Christian nation.

http://christianparty.net/christianation.htm

even christian website state so

1983 - Oct. 4, 1982, Joint Resolution of Congress: "Whereas the Bible, the Word of God, has made a unique contribution in shaping the United States as a distinctive and blessed nation of people. Whereas Biblical teachings inspired concepts of civil government that are contained in our Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of The United States ... Whereas that renewing our knowledge of, and faith in God through Holy Scriptures can strengthen us as a nation and a people. Now therefore be it resolved ... that the President is authorized and requested to designate 1983 as a national "Year of the Bible" in recognition of both the formative influence the Bible has been for our nation, and our national need to study and apply the teachings of the Holy Scriptures." February 3, 1983 - President Ronald Reagan issued the above requested proclamation. President George Bush declared 1990 to be the international year of Bible reading

http://www.harpers.org/ExcerptTheChristianParadox.html

bottomline is:
When we say we are a Christian nationand, overwhelmingly, we doit means something.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/07/12/gops_christian_nation/

This time it's the Republican Party of Texas, President Bush's home state, which has approved a plank in its platform affirming that "the United States of America is a Christian nation."

http://www.grace24u.org/cnation.html

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." -- Patrick Henry

http://www.afn.org/~govern/Christian_Nation.html

Recently, many authors have debated whether or not the United States of America was founded as a Christian nation. I wish to provide a few historical quotes from our Founding Era that lend credence to the supposition that we indeed were founded as a Christian nation.

Granted, God is not mentioned in the Constitution, but He is mentioned in every major document leading up to the final wording of the Constitution. For example, Connecticut is still known as the "Constitution State" because its colonial constitution was used as a model for the United States Constitution. Its first words were: "For as much as it has pleased the almighty God by the wise disposition of His Divine Providence"

Most of the fifty-five Founding Fathers who worked on the Constitution were members of orthodox Christian churches and many were even evangelical Christians. The first official act in the First Continental Congress was to open in Christian prayer, which ended in these words: "...the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son, our Savior. Amen". Sounds Christian to me.

Chin Eng SG

hi kaister....

My point is, paraphasing ben... who defines what religion a country is?

If you refer to my link in my previous post, that website has got a very good ear to the ground on what religious state US is currently in. It might be true in the past where the pilgrims journeyed across the oceans to the new world and bringing with it their faith in God. However, is this true now?

Sure the US currency has "In God We Trust", it also have the Freemason's all seeing eye and the unfinished pyramid, decidedly pagan symbols - not very Christian is it? Wink plus the ban on prayers and the mention of God in schools?

At the end of the day, we can all go point fingers at the US for because someone declared that it as a Christian nation and that it's prison is full of folks who called themselves Christian, then I really have nothing to say.

As I have said in another forum, let's have some balance here... Wink

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