Vatican is telling people not to use condoms

last SG · 2006-10-18T00:26:19+00:00

What is abstinence with condoms? Do you mean safe sex with condoms?everyone should practise abstinence if they wanna sto STD and AIDs. If u die die must have...

vince69 SG

Gensis 38:8-10
8 Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also.

no he did not refuse sex, he practice withdrawal method.

***personally, I don't think its what he did physically that was wicked in the Lord's slight, but rather he did in his mind (his intention) of not having to produce offspring for his brother (effectively removing the family line of the brother).

kaister SG

So Condom use = promote sex, therefore ban condom use and we're sex free? This is the line of arguement that the Catholic Church is embarking on.

Unfortunately, the world don't work this way. Unless you can be very sure people abstain from having sex, they WILL have sex and transmit diseases.

Vatican should just focus on abstinence and leave the rest to WHO. By making such a stand on condom use is like condemning people to death (not to mention innocent parties who are not aware that their partners are infected).

We're in the middle of an AIDS epidemic. The least we can do is to prevent its spread.

Icemoon SG

oh ya my mistake .. which normal guy will refuse sex right? Twisted Evil

furthermore the wife quite pretty .. or else how to be a harlot. Laughing

Honeybunz SG

hmm.. . in that case, there is no need to discuss on using condoms to stop the spread. But then, dunno whether Kaister will agree or not.

kaister SG

But sexual transmission is still the predominant mode of infection.

Isn't not discussing the problem avoiding it?

Honeybunz SG

u tokking from your own experience?

Why is sex becoming a basic need in life? You know Maslow law. It seems that sex has become as important as air, water and food already.

Cannot have a wife, MUST masturbate. If not, will die.

In that case, a lot of young kids, monks and priests also die, dun exist anymore.

kaister SG

Laughing I agree! There're tons of people who can live without sex. It's not a necessity of life.

On the other hand, there're also tons of people who can't live without. Just take a look at the Catholic priests who were involved in child sex abuse case. Shocked

Honeybunz SG

What if the condoms are really banned and the only way to prevent it is for everyone to stay faithful? Is this going to kill anyone?

Now with the condoms so widely used and abused, people continue with their promiscuous way, thinking that they will never be punished (by STDs). If these people want to live this kind of lifestyle, it's their choice and it's only right for them to pay the price (getting sick and risking their family).

This reminds me of many smokers believe in using filter when they smoke will give them less harm. But if they are so afraid of sickness, they should quit smoking. Likewise, if people are so afraid of spreading or getting AIDS, then they should do something about their lifestyle (ie. learn to be chaste).

Using condom to prevent HIV is like smokers using filter to prevent lung cancer.

Honeybunz SG

Well, child sex abuse is even more common in Asia, sad to say.

kaister SG

Yes, this is going to cause a lot of deaths before people realise that not having sex is the wrong way. At the rate Africa is going, most will die before Vatican can preach to them that abstinence is the only way to go.

They are already paying the price for having HIV. Why make other people pay the price as well? There are a lot of people forced into the streets as prositutes. They don't do it out of their free will. Sometimes even kids. Are you going to ban condoms and cause these kids' deaths?

They're already suffering because of their society, why ban condoms and make them pay the price?

Does the Vatican believe in value of death over value of life?

We should attack the multi-factorial problem of AIDS in africa using multiple solutions. Why can't we try to persuade smokers to quit smoking AND provide them with filter? Quiting smoking doesn't take place over nite you know?

Same thing with AIDS. Getting people to stop having multiple sex partners is not going to be an easy task. Why can't we first use condoms to stop the spread and prevent more deaths while Vatican persuades them?

Honeybunz SG

not having sex is the wrong way = Having sex is the right way?

Shocked har?

Aren't we talking about abstinence vs using condom?

vince69 SG

mdm,
actually Kaister is talking about using both Abstinence and Condoms

maybe Kaister can correct me if I got you wrong

Condom - short term use as a prevention of HIV from spreading.
Abstinence - long term goal for the stopping of HIV Transmission since this will take longer time for people to adopt this practice.

kaister SG

typo Embarassed

Not having sex is the right way Razz

Honeybunz SG

Ok, now you talk about Child Prostitution. Don't you think that is the issue to tackle, rather than distribute condoms to the children and let them continue to sell their bodies at the brothels?

Why are we not saving them out from where they are, instead of letting them use condoms so that they can live longer as child prostitutes?

If we talk about value of these children's life, Vatican or any humane activists would rather put them to orphanages instead of giving out rubbers to them.

SingaporeMacross SG

That was the result of lousy screening of candidates to the priesthood and poor teaching in the seminary, not clerical celibacy.

kaister SG

I think you're mistaken. I'm not saying we should distribute condoms cos' that would be encouraging them. I'm saying we shouldn't discourage or ban the use of condoms. Smile

Yes, saving them would be the ideal situation but practically it's impossible given the corrupted government and the poverty. Agree?

So given 2 choice, which one would you choose?

1. Ban the use of condoms. Encourage abstinence. - innocent parties may suffer. Spread of AIDS worsen. People will probably learn the consequences after a whole generation dies out from AIDS.

2. Don't ban condom. Encourage abstinence. - Lessen the dmg of AIDS. People might learn slower but at least less people die.

kaister SG

Ya, just saying that Ren Fei Sheng Xian Shu Nen Wu Guo? (translation: to err is human)

SingaporeMacross SG

Where in the article does it say that he tried to abstain?

Sex is meant for the expression of marital love. Deliberately exposing the spouse to even the slightest risk of catching a deadly and incurable disease is hardly in the spirit of love.

Honeybunz SG

If we can try to persuade smokers to quit smoking and provide them with filter, why nobody is doing it? The very fact that people use filter is because they believe it will filter out most of the harmful chemicals, just like the misconception of condoms being 100% safe.

People with multiple sex partners can seek help and skrinks. When a person is addicted to sex, cannot live without sex etc is having some kind of mental disorder. Note: mental disorder doesn't mean insane. It's just a disorder, like eating disorder, or sleeping disorder, where proper medical treatments and counselling are conducted.

Psychatrists do treat this kind of patients (and other mental patients). However, many ppl do not see this as an illness or disorder. Some may be too embarassed to see a doctor for this problem.

kaister SG

Would you agree that the correct information be given to everyone? Like the Church should tell people how condoms cannot stop 100% of all STDs but abstinence is the best solution?

I think the question here is whether to ban condoms or not?

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