The blogger Char investigated by police said this

last SG · 2006-06-28T08:02:42+00:00

well... PAP and extremist fundamentalist xtians. Don't they just go so well together hand in hand? Narrowmindedness, draconian authoritarian, blind fundament...

gssq SG

i consider LaVey's Satanism as the only Satanism. Paganism and wicca is wrongfully seen as Satanic by Xtianity. Then again, Xtianity also considers any religion other than their own Satanic. I'll never forget when I was 8, a friend told me he goes to church, then when I said I go to a temple he told me I was worshipping Satan. Ever since, I haven't felt too favourable about the attitude of "typical singaporean" Xtians.

Only LaVey Satanists are "True Satanists"? Sounds like those who talk about "True Christians", don't it (non-True Christians aren't necessarily satanic)? *wink* I think it's hard to define things so arbitrarily. I'd probably say the defining criterion for a satanist is belief in and worship of satan.

Actually how many Christians condemn other religions is quite seditious, no? Mmm...

gssq SG

they ALWAYS justify their sins in the name of the Lord, the bloody hypocrites. They always do. Everything they do is "in the name of the Lord"

As the saying does: "My Jesus forgives your Jesus"

http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/003530.html

[email protected] SG

im not promoting "true satanism". rather im speaking in defence of other religions often mistakenly classed as satanic. Afterall, Wicca and Paganism have actually been around much longer than Satanism has. I think they deserve to be respected as individual religions.

Smile

[email protected] SG

by the way, wondering if u want to read more about the Albigensian Crusade. I found it particularly barbaric as... well... its one thing to hold a crusade against people of other religions, its another to hold one against your fellow xtians.

this one particular line is very..... spine chilling...

the violence inflicted was extreme even by medieval standards

also, what is very galling... is that the true purpose of the Crusaders were not so much religious as it was territory expansionary...

the church offered legally sanctioned dominion over conquered lands to northern French nobles and the King of France, acting as essentially Catholic mercenaries, who then nearly doubled the size of France, acquiring regions which at the time had closer cultural and language ties to Catalonia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

casino_king SG

The reason such atrocities happen is because people cling on to beliefs even when the beliefs become internally incoherent.

To assuage their own doubts, they have to remove all those who point out the incoherences.

Instead of discovering the truth for themselves, they remove the source of their doubts, the "others."

It is still happening and will continue to happen to a more or lesser degree.

gssq SG

Ah, right. Of course Wicca and "Paganism" aren't satanic. But IIRC modern Wicca/Paganism are revivals of the old folk religions, rather than being contiguous with them, no?

Also, what's Satanic depends on your definition of Satan - remember Khomeini called the US the Great Satan and Israel the Lesser Satan.

by the way, wondering if u want to read more about the Albigensian Crusade. I found it particularly barbaric as... well... its one thing to hold a crusade against people of other religions, its another to hold one against your fellow xtians...

also, what is very galling... is that the true purpose of the Crusaders were not so much religious as it was territory expansionary...

Yeah, I know about the Albigensian Crusade. Internecine conflict is a staple of history.

This proves that much of the evil attributed to religion arises from socio-political causes.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire

casino_king SG

When Jesus put doubts into the minds of the Jews, they crucified Him.

When "others" put doubts into the minds of some Christians, they "crucifiy" them.

What is the correct response when people put doubt into your minds? Crucify, torture, insult and make false witness against them?

Let those who have ears, hear.

[email protected] SG

I do think they're not revivals. There might have been times when the number of followers have dwindled, but I do belive it's been passed on properly.

AS for Satanism, well..... I don't think Khomeini actually believes them to be Satan. What he is trying to do is to "motivate" his people and give them something larger to unite against, instead of as a nation against a nation, as a religion against "evil"

gssq SG

I do think they're not revivals. There might have been times when the number of followers have dwindled, but I do belive it's been passed on properly.

Well the very name "paganism" is silly. Real "pagans" never called themselves such - a pagan exists only in a dichotomy with a Christian. In fact "pagan" was a derogatory term applied by Christians to "pagans". Then again Yankee Doodle did originate as a insult to the Americans, but I digress.

Frankly, I get the impression most current Wiccans/Pagans are just kids playing at something.

As for it being a revival, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca for the 20th century revival.

AS for Satanism, well..... I don't think Khomeini actually believes them to be Satan. What he is trying to do is to "motivate" his people and give them something larger to unite against, instead of as a nation against a nation, as a religion against "evil"

D'oh! I was being sarcastic. nevermind.

laoda99 SG

Cathars hold beliefs that are gnostic and not similiar in any way to modern day protestanism.

LazerLordz SG

Somehow, the typical fundamentalist who would love to slap the label of simplicity and sedition on anything that moves, usually cannot comprehend the wide latitude of debate that an offensive line or image is found within the context of this larger intellectual debate.

What to do, common sense and depth of thought is not common here.

Sometimes, self-preservation becomes self-censorship because of a fear of society by police proxy, as quoted earlier in the thread. Fine, let's keep quiet. Rolling Eyes

All we want is peace and for everyone to get along.

gssq SG

A peripherally related point:

Caravaggio's "The Supper at Emmaus" offended people because he depicted saints as ordinary people. It's lucky these people who took offence did not mutilate or destroy the painting, since now another interpretation is that this prosaic quality allows a contrast with the ethereal figure of Christ.

vince69 SG

True, there are those who would love to slap the label of simplicity and sedition on anything that moves.
On the other hand, there are also folks who loves to hide behind the so called Freedom of Expressions and utterly refused to take the Responsibilities that comes with this freedom.

cheers.

[email protected] SG

thats not very fair Laughing

many of them actually have a deep understanding of it. Cool

[email protected] SG

oh ok. good excuse to kill them and kill catholic christians who lived with them then.

[email protected] SG

a nice example being the Xtian orientated dutch paper who PURPOSELY posted the mohammed cartoon to provoke muslims. It seems the one point everyone overlooked is that the same newspaper condemns all cartoons making fun of Xtianity, and yet happily in an amazing display of double standards published something they shouldn't in an intentional act of provocation.

laoda99 SG

Mr. Green Dun be angry la....just want to point out where u said wrongly

Anyway, Cathars believe the body is evil and as a result they dun conceive. They would have died out naturally.

laoda99 SG

are u angry with fundies or xtians?

LazerLordz SG

The Rennaissance works were seen as crass by their contemporaries, but only today we see the value in their antiquity. History and memory gain differing significance and apply differing levels of value to artifacts ove time.

LazerLordz SG

There are fundamentalists in every Religion, just to make my point and fundamentalists are out to seek divisions in order to draw more crowds towards them.

Analogously speaking, the state of war in the Middle East can be partly attributed to the Right-Wing Christian Republican support from Jerry Falwell and his ilk, as is the massivce insurgency of 2004/2005 which is fueled by a patchwork of Muslim fundamentalists not limited to Al-Qaeda in Iraq, the earlier days of Moqtada Al-Sadr and his Mahdi Army and the Iranian funded Shi'ite brigades operating under the guise of the ING (Iraqi National Guard).

In fact, the List Party of Alawi and Maliki was the only grouping which was broad-minded enough to garner enough personnel to man the new Parliament, instead of the Shi'ites who insisted on fighting their own war and skipping the political process entirely until the end of 2005.

Even the IRA had twin wings of political engagement and bloody murder in the streets of Cork and Dublin.

Now many might see me as going OT, but I'm just painting (no pun intended) a picture of the fallacy of extremism as a tool to achieve long term aims.

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