An article on Purgatory

SingaporeMacross SG

http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0204/articles/walls.html

Repented John 2 SG

Sorry no purgatory. It's either heaven or hell. Or no point preaching the gospel of Christ in this life time if one can still go to heaven by entering purgatory first. Bcos one can dont accept Jesus in this life time & then go purgatory to get to heaven. Heresy!

laoda99 SG

side note: when we die, we go heaven/hell direct….or await judgement first?

Ito_^ SG

so do you deny the catholic faith and their teaching?

so what happen to the people who does not have the chance of hearing the gospel?

do they do to hell?

Repented John 2 SG

I am not catholic & we dont follow traditions of men.

God is fair. Either He will reach the person in some impossible way before he dies or He will judge accordingly & justly.

plo30360 SG

Did you read the entire article, its not even written by a Catholic. Purgatory is not to be mistaken as middle ground between heaven and hell.

And here's a question what happens if someone does not repent of all his sins, he still can go heaven meh? Worse still, if someone feels that sin is justified?

There's is one thing about the article I'll disagree though, the writer states, there's no mention of purgatory in Scripture, however this is not entirely true, just as how the concept of Trinity is implied, Scripture also implies purgatory.

Ito_^ SG

it is a fact that some people in remote parts of this world still are not being reached and died being that state.

Raptured SG

I think we go heaven or hell directly via our spirits & souls. Our body rests on earth. Then when Christ comes again, our body gets resurrected & reunites with our souls & spirits. But i think this not a good explanation. Anybody with better explanation?

plo30360 SG

I am not catholic & we dont follow traditions of men.

Your understanding of what Catholics refer to as Tradition is rather shallow.

Repented John 2 SG

If it's not, then what is it?

I think he might go to hell unless you believe in once saved forever saved.

Maybe you can enlighten us on how purgatory is implied? Thanks. Just my humble opinion.

Repented John 2 SG

Well God will be fair to them, but to those who heard there will be no excuse, even after thowing a smoke bomb like this one. Laughing

laoda99 SG

mebbe unker chin eng or vince?

this is a problem bugging me berry long liao....

Repented John 2 SG

Of course, i am not a catholic. We dont pass tradition as gospel or biblical doctrine.

vince69 SG

very long 7 pages, need to read finished first, but I do find your notion that there are implications of purgatory existing in the Bible, and I think it will be good if you can show them to us, or point them out for us (not trying to be funny or what, just want to learn that's all, cause I really don't know much about purgatory)

Thanks

plo30360 SG

If it's not, then what is it?

I think he might go to hell unless you believe in once saved forever saved.

Maybe you can enlighten us on how purgatory is implied? Thanks. Just my humble opinion.

Purgatory is for souls who are bound for heaven but may not have repented of all their sins.This is a very crude explaination, I think Sgmacross can give a better one.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15:

"For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay stubble: Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."(Note, some translations have this line as purged by fire the last part)

In Origen the doctrine of purgatory is very clear. If a man depart this life with lighter faults, he is condemned to fire which burns away the lighter materials, and prepares the soul for the kingdom of God, where nothing defiled may enter. "For if on the foundation of Christ you have built not only gold and silver and precious stones (1 Corinthians 3); but also wood and hay and stubble, what do you expect when the soul shall be separated from the body? Would you enter into heaven with your wood and hay and stubble and thus defile the kingdom of God; or on account of these hindrances would you remain without and receive no reward for your gold and silver and precious stones? Neither is this just. It remains then that you be committed to the fire which will burn the light materials; for our God to those who can comprehend heavenly things is called a cleansing fire. But this fire consumes not the creature, but what the creature has himself built, wood, and hay and stubble. It is manifest that the fire destroys the wood of our transgressions and then returns to us the reward of our great works."

taken from:http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm

plo30360 SG

Of course, i am not a catholic. We dont pass tradition as gospel or biblical doctrine.

Which is why I stated your view on what Catholic Tradition is shallow. I'm not saying this to offend, but I expected this view from non-Catholic Christians. What they think is the teachings of the Catholic Church.

As i've mentioned somewhere before the relationship between Tradition and Scripture for Catholics is interlinked. What do I mean? For example Tradition must never contradict Scripture. Tradition is derived from Scripture.

The Bible as we know it today is a product of Tradition. Anyway, lets not discuss this here, let's stick to purgatory.

If your really interested go the Catholic forum and post this topic there.

SingaporeMacross SG

Then you shall be damned! Because you failed to reach them!

Twisted Evil Just joking...

SingaporeMacross SG

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0058.html

This article will educate sufficiently.

Your explanation is not too bad anyway.

Ito_^ SG

this article may be useful for more information that the above do not state.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm

this part is interesting.

"Modern Protestants, while they avoid the name purgatory, frequently teach the doctrine of "the middle state," and Martensen ("Christian Dogmatics," Edinburgh, 1890, p. 457) writes: "As no soul leaves this present existence in a fully complete and prepared state, we must suppose that there is an intermediate state, a realm of progressive development, (?) in which souls are prepared for the final judgment" (Farrar, "Mercy and Judgment," London, 1881, cap. iii)."

of cuz u can argue this is a catholic lie, or these "modern protestants" are in fact in the previous era..

anyways, i don't see why a christian should ignore the understanding of other denominations and even other religions.

is ignorance a sin?

gasband SG

The issue is not whether there is a Purgatory. We can argue till the cows come home and still we have two sides of the story. My thinking is simple. God’s salvation is free (although not cheap) and complete when HE died on the cross. And to me, if there is any kind of suggestion that tells me that I NEED TO DO SOMETHING or WORKS at any point of time before I receive my salvation, then I know it is wrong cos the BIBLE does not teach that. Salvation and the rewards we received in heaven are two issues. To imply we have to suffer to receive salavtion is wrong. if you say that our unconfessed sins would affect the rewards and judgement we receievd in heaven, I may be able to accept that.