the true 'christians'

last SG · 2006-04-29T12:39:00+00:00

I did not say God did not do a good job, I am saying, the hearer may not be paying attention

laoda99 SG

Originally posted by despondent:
i agree with wad u said... but a bt benny hinn, i would like to say tat no human is perfect..i have a bible-presbyterian frend who told me she saw video clips of ppl getting 'healed' by benny hinn yet in the end nt healed...but i told her i have seen ppl genuinely getting healed by benny hinn, so wad can u say?

seems like we have seen 2 diff. sides of benny hinn. n i asked her: can u say benny hinn is a liar juz cos he made a few mistakes? is it rite to establish a truth based on a few experiences? then wad diff. r u from a charismatic? charismatism is criticised cos ppl there establish a truth based on a single experience...i feel tat as christians, we shld nt judge one another but rather focus on our common enemy...Satan, who is trying to cause division among us...

For the people genuinely "healed" by benny hinn, what kind of ailments and what is the follow up later? Did it sustain or relapse?

Most of the ailments cured which I heard in charismatic church here is stiff/pain on parts of the body which I cannot confirm.

Think Benny Hinn also tried to raise the dead from TV evangelical program. Is that biblical? Obviously not.

Anything that is extra-biblical (e.g God tells me) and depend on "voices" is dangerous. I personally believe the only pple who hear audible voices in their heads are schizoprenic. God's message usually comes in more indirect way, at least for me.

What I am trying to emphasize here is not to cause division, rather than alert pple to the fact that some things said by charismatic pastors are unsound. As Christians we should not be afraid to speak up for things that are not right.

laoda99 SG

U know I cannot, but Benny Hinn, he has made such claims which I found weird and to a large extent ridiculous.

All I know is, check the bible for reference. If what the pastor says is not in the bible, it is extra-biblical and must be take with caution. I always do that in church but I doubt pple in big charismatic churches do, as they always say:" Pastor XXX says" rather than what the bible says.

despondent SG

if homosexuality is wrong, then why did God create something imperfect and wrong for humans to be able to even have a chance to sin.

come to think about it, it sounds kinda sick, in my opinion. why would God want to create humans, make them imperfect, so that God can punish them. isnt this rather sadistic?

to coffeeortea:
God does nt create things imperfect...u muz understand the diff. btw allowing things to happen n making things happen...God did nt make adam sin...he allow adam the freewill to choose...God had foreknowledge tat adam wil sin but he did nt create adam to sin...issues like homosexuality exist after man had fallen...when adam sinned, sin crept into tis earth n tat allowed all kinds of problems to enter the world...satan is the one who created the problems...why doesnt God stop it? lets put it tis way, how do u noe God has nt stopped many disasters from happening? wadever God has stopped, can u see it? u cun see sth happening when God has alredi stopped it from starting in the 1st place.

christians onli defer in the deeper issues of the bible...n its understandable cos we r nt perfect, we r nt at the same level as God...so we cun fully comprehend His Word...reason y mormons n JWs r called cults cos they deny christian fundamentals...n even chrismatics(save the extreme ones) dont deny the fundamentals...tats y they r stil classified as christians...cults go to the extend as to say tat jesus was nt born perfect...some said God had sexual relations wif mary n gave birth to jesus...u dun find any denomination from mainstream christianity claiming those 'truths'.

laoda99 SG

the bible should be our basis....there maybe slight difference in denominations but the most important should be bible as basis....what is not said in the bible we take with discernment....e.g the holy communion for health / wealth gospel

for your second part is more difficult to answer. I do not think anyone of us can explain why god do this and not that, and we cannot and will not be able to tell god what he should do and what he should not.

But what we can do is to trust god that he is in control. Think from a different perspective: god is always in control even though how man has failed.

shade343 SG

laoda99 SG

There are indeed many seducing spirits and lying wonders around, to be sure.

Icemoon SG

shady is a universalist .. excuse him. Laughing

despondent SG

By saying that, you have just condemned the other groups as "seducing spirits and lying wonders". What makes you think they dont have truth intheir teachings? It is egoistic of you to think that yours is the one and only one and the others are not.

to shade343:
like i said earlier, they claim to be christians yet they deny the fundamentals tat r so clear in the bible...eg. JWs have altered the original bible to suit their doctrine...mormons have added to the bible wif their book of mormons...mainstream christians dun do tat...nt even the catholics or the charismatics...n cults do claim to be the onli one tat is correct...mormons n JWs dun agree wif each other...we christians dun say things like..oh onli presbyterians r saved...or onli anglicans r saved...n no christian church wil tell u they r the onli church at wil be saved...any church tat claim tat is a cult...

Icemoon SG

dunno why .. I have this impression people in charismatic church don't read widely. probably the only books they read are those from their church bookshop, that promote similar flavor.

vince69 SG

Just a thought.... sometime we cann take things based on 'face values', when some people says Paster XXX says this, its could means "In the personal opinion of Paster XXX,.."
God bless.

Icemoon SG

It is hard to know whether what you receive is sound or unsound, just from reading the bible.

That is why discussion with other christians and reading widely helps.

This is one of the purpose for a forum .. to be accustomed to the wide spectrum of Christian faith.

Icemoon SG

for sure they (pastors) seldom say "this is my personal opinion". Laughing

furthermore it is hard to believe those are their personal opinion, when they preface the sermon with "last night Jesus told me .. "

My god .. even the Pope don't preface his talk with "God told me .. " Mr. Green

laoda99 SG

Yes.....especially when they (pastors) say :" God tells me to tell u this"

This is not just a personal opinion anymore.

Icemoon SG

This is more authoritative than a papal edict. Twisted Evil

breytonhartge SG

Then why does it say in 1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

laoda99 SG

For me, test the spirit means refering back to the bible.

If the bible do not say anything or say anything explicitly abt the issue, it should be taken with caution. I will not simply take any pastor's " god tell me to tell u this" message easily. This is dangerous as pple in big charismatic churches seem to take the word of their senior pastor as absolute, esp when the pastor says it is from god.

No pastor, whether Anglican, Presbyterian or any mainstream church, has told me "god tells me to tell you this". And this should be taken with extreme caution. IMHO, pastors with sound theological background do not say "god tells me to tell u this" readily. This shows that theological education for pastors is necessary and not just a conviction by what one believe is the holy spirit.

And I would like to reiterate the fact that pastors of megachurches, have a greater responsibilty to check what they want to preach to their flock, becoz what they said will influence a lot of people at one time. There is no use apologising for mistakes later becoz the harm is already done.

And again to the "MacChrist" strategy of attracting believers, it will only not keep believers in church. I have personally experienced that and the "good" feeling followed by a sermon which utter sweet words do not stay with me for long (probably only a little while after i have my dinner and shop happily around carrefour, but i still feel empty after that).

vince69 SG

Yah.,... I know, some people also say... "The Holy Spirit reveals this to me...."....
In this, there is only one test, The Holy Spirit will only reveal the things that are already written in the Bible, if this so call revelation is not in line with the Scriptural principles, then its quite clear that the person is either lying or did not hear properly. Smile
God bless.

Icemoon SG

laoda99 has carelessly revealed the source of the sermon. Laughing

coincidentally it is a church which brey is fond of. Rolling Eyes

vince69 SG

can test one, If they say to you "God tells me to tell u this,..."
If God has also already tell this to you before... then this could be a confirmation from God to you.
If God have not tell you this before, my advise is, reject this straight away, its not from God.

Anything, God would never tell you to do anything that is against the Biblical Principles stated in the Bible.

God Bless.

Icemoon SG

Never hear properly? God could have done a better job ..

When God revealed Himself to Apostle Paul, He makes sure Paul get the message so clearly that he can't say "I just experienced a hallucination". Mr. Green

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