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last SG · 2006-04-30T19:58:48+00:00

Heresy is but the uncorroborated point of view from a layperson. But that's all I shall say, because I'm more of a unitarian Methodist who also believes i...

SingaporeMacross SG

And regarding the paganism information you have posted...

Take a look at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross

The Cross itself was originally a pagan symbol! Why are we still using it then?

laoda99 SG

1.Ur view is contradicting urself, by sticking to the law is like making christ's work on the cross in vain, as u are being made righteous by your own merits.

2.God knows that man can only face death under the law that we need christ's righteousness to absolve us from our sins.

3.I think u forget, that as christians, we do not need the law for our salvation/eternal life. Our justification is once and complete thru Christ's work on the cross. No commandments u keep can give u eternal life.

4. You are treading on dangerous grounds by reverting back to law over grace. I will pray for u.

Icemoon SG

Brey is running a one man show now.

He has practically no allies on his side (except maybe Repented John 2?)

The Catholics are not on his side.

Neither are some of the Protestants (like CE, Laoda); the rest are neutral.

Of course CK is never on his side.

And I don't think the yellow leftie is on his side either.

Shocked Twisted Evil

SingaporeMacross SG

so why aren't you pinpointing the Eastern Churches? Is it because they are doing the right thing, that is, keeping the Lord's festivals?

And if they 'keep the Lord's festivals', why aren't you Orthodox?

We Catholics celebrate Pascha; we merely call it Easter. Simple as that.

SingaporeMacross SG

haha, yellow leftie is never on either of our side. Mr. Green

Icemoon SG

Hmm .. this is interesting. I find our beliefs aligned in certain ways. Wink

It is interesting you can treat the commandments as God's way of proving mankind inability to keep the law, and yet at the same time, admit that Christians should keep them.

How do you reconcile that? Very Happy

breytonhartge SG

I have not reverted back to law over grace.... Confused

I have salvation through grace, and it is though the death of Yeshua that I have eternal life, yet, it still does not say that we do not have to keep Gods commandments, if you read my posts, I have always said that through Yeshua, we have the ability to keep the commandments, and if we fall, it is Yeshua's grace that allows us to get up and go on because we have grace.

Yes, our justification is through Yeshua's work, but we still have to try to keep the commandments. Even after all the biblical verse that I have shown you, you still cannot see it? Did Yeshua say that we are not to keep the fathers commandments? No. Infact, He asked us to.

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Fathers commandments and abide in His love.

John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.

John 14:15
[ Jesus Promises Another Helper ] If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Matthew 19:17
So He said to him, Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

1 John 2:3
[ The Test of Knowing Him ] Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 2:4
He who says, I know Him, and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

All these verses show that we are to keep the commandments of God. How do you then explain away all of this? I say keep the commandments of God not as a way of salvation, we already have that, but we keep the commandments of God because of our salvation because we LOVE GOD.

We have grace unto salvation, but not grace to absolve us from keeping Gods commands.

I think you forget that as Christians we are God's children, and we are to keep God's ways. I will pray for you to understand this.

breytonhartge SG

There is nothing to reconcile, Yeshua has done that for us, for His perfection and His saving work on the cross has in His life kept the commandments for us and has shown us how we can keep the commandments. And because we have the grace of God, we can keep the commandments and if we fall, then grace and mercy are already there so that we are under no condemnation but we have the righteousness of Yeshua. We just get right back up and continue on with Yeshua/God because in Him we have no condemnation.

SingaporeMacross SG

i am shocked..

i somewhat agree with you on this..

laoda99 SG

Originally posted by breytonhartge:
I am not half here and half there.

[b]You also forget, if any man can keep the commandments, he will have eternal life. The two commandments you say you are aware of, love the Lord thy God and love thy neighbour as thyself, sum up all the TEN.
[/b]

The part in bold is definitely questionable as christians do not have keep the law to have eternal life or salvation. If christians have to earn their salvation by keeping the law, then Christ's work on the cross is totally unneccessary as keeping commandments will do. The true fact is: We are only made righteous by Christ, not by what we do.

I maintain that as Christians we should not forget that Salvation is only through faith by grace, not by following the law or by doing good works.

Keeping commandments and doing good works is a result of god's grace presented thru the believer, but it is not a requirement for salvation.

Brey - even your church believe in salvation by faith thru grace, not by the law. Your stand is definitely not aligned to what Christians believe. As a Christian bro, it is my duty to remind u of this.

As what I received from my Adult Christian Education class today, most of us are recovering addicts/pharisees who try to please god by our works and in so doing, forget what Christ really did on the cross and why.

I rest my case.

M©+square SG

It's only AT TIMES. Brey is high handed.

Repented John 2 SG

I agree but be careful dont become legalistic.

Repented John 2 SG

I agree.

breytonhartge SG

hey!!! Confused

breytonhartge SG

Originally posted by laoda99:

The part in bold is definitely questionable as [b]christians do not have keep the law to have eternal life or salvation. If christians have to earn their salvation by keeping the law, then Christ's work on the cross is totally unneccessary as keeping commandments will do. The true fact is: We are only made righteous by Christ, not by what we do.

I maintain that as Christians we should not forget that Salvation is only through faith by grace, not by following the law or by doing good works.

Keeping commandments and doing good works is a result of god's grace presented thru the believer, but it is not a requirement for salvation.

Brey - even your church believe in salvation by faith thru grace, not by the law. Your stand is definitely not aligned to what Christians believe. As a Christian bro, it is my duty to remind u of this.

As what I received from my Adult Christian Education class today, most of us are recovering addicts/pharisees who try to please god by our works and in so doing, forget what Christ really did on the cross and why.

I rest my case.
[/b]

I don't belong to a church per se.

Did I ever once argue that keeping the commandments are a requirement for salvation? No. But I have always said that we are still to keep the commandments as a result of God's grace.

I have never said that good works save, in fact in some of my earlier posts, I have said salvation is through grace by Yeshua's work on the cross.

So what case have you got?

M©+square SG

I tot i'm grumpy enough these days....you're worse!!!

Joy joy joy...Highly Favoured, Deeply Loved and ...........

Yea you know what i mean. Laughing

breytonhartge SG

I won't but thanks for the reminder.

breytonhartge SG

As long as you feel better... there there Laughing .

Why are you grumpy?

I am not grumpy... Sad Sad

babyys SG

Whoa!!! wat have i missed??? couple of days in seclusion come back a whole load of hoo ha's...

Chill it guys...... Laughing

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