Originally posted by babyys:
[b]"Lord, can Mary and the saints who have departed hear me when i
pray"?
".................the dead know nothing." was the
reply.
How would u know God's reply? We're not him so don't presume.
There is also a major difference in Praying TO
them and asking them to pray FOR us. From the
start i never said to pray to the saints or Mary for that matter.
That would then be idolatary.
Yes, so you said the saints & Mary is dead! then wat's eternity
in Heaven for? r u saying once we r dead we will all go into
"sleep-mode" forever?
[/b]
1) Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10 says that the dead know nothing. And
thats Gods Word. The verse doesnt mean that they have been
annihilated or has ceased to exist forever. That is clear in the
concluding portion of the book [12:14], they will yet have to face
judgment. It is also clear in other portions of GODS WORD that the
departed ones does not soul-sleep or cease to exist. The soul of
the departed is conscious either in Hades or heaven.
[Of course, no one is to build his theology based solely on the
book of Ecclesiastes since it is a book of horinzontal outlook, a
book looking primarily from an "under the sun" perspective, but
portions of other Scriptures tell us which is doctrinal in this
book or not]
2) What this portion of GODS WORD is telling us however is that
the departed ones have no knowledge of whats happening here on
earth. They cant hear your prayers and etc. Death disrupts their
interaction with our world.
In advance I woud like to posit the case of Samuel appearing to
Saul, in case someone will use this event in the Bible to justify
calling up the dead and that they can hear us here:
others advance Samuel's apparation to Saul to refute that the dead
cannot hear what's taking place here. But that portion is highly
debatable as to whether it was really Samuel who appeared to Saul
during that instance or a demonic spirit seeking to decieve Saul.
Evidence though strongly indicate that it was a demonic spirit who
appeared to Saul and not Samuel.
1 Chronicles helps us interpret that episode of "Samuel's"
apparition to Saul, was it really Samuel or not..........God will
tell us here:
1Ch 10:13 So Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he had
committed against the LORD, because he did not keep the word of the
LORD, and also
because he consulted a medium for guidance.
14 But he did not
inquire of the LORD; therefore He killed him, and
turned the kingdom over to David the son of Jesse.
The divine commentary of that episode says: He did not inquire the
Lord. So it was not Samuel. [old testament people inquire the Lord
through His genuine prophets]
Although, there may be others who will use portions in Revelations
to justify that the dead can hear the living here on earth. This
Samuel incident should suffice for now.
3) About the excuse of the R.C. that thee is a difference between
praying to the dead saints and just talking to them to ask for
help:
This excuse is cogent at first glance, it sounds convincing. But
looking at the way R.C. asks for help to Mary and the dead saints
is quite disturbing. With great devotion they approach Mary and the
saints. They call her and them their advocate, their hope and
refuge, thanks them for the boundless graces they have received,
kneels to them, sing songs to them, makes a procession in honor to
them and other disturbing practices.
Would you call that just a mere asking for help and just having
plain conversations with another fellow creature? Certainly not!!!!
That is plain worship.
4) PLUS Gods Word is unequivocally clear that we should not have
any communications with those who have died:
De 18:10 "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his
son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices
witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a
sorcerer,
11 "or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or
ONE WHO CALLS UP
THE DEAD
That's so plain. That's as plain as :"thou shall not steal" and
others. We don't need to have high level interpretive skill to
understand that........................... that should be enough
for now.
So where do i go for help in time of trouble?
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize
with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet
without sin.
16 Let us therefore come BOLDLY to the
throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help
in time of
need.
Why?
because "God is our refuge and strength, A very present help in
trouble. Psalms 46:1
However, these gurantees can only be ours if we repent and trust in
the saving work of Christ alone in Calvary
P.S. i have a question though..........although i was an altar
assistant once in the Roman Catholic Church......... i never got to
ask my priest about this:
How is it that Roman Catholics ask the intercession of inanimate
objects?
"Tower of david.................................." pray for
us"
mirror of...... [something i forgot].........."pray for us"
"house of gold"........................"pray for us"
ark of the covenant .................."pray for us"
can you fill me on this one? where
is the biblical support that we ask the ark of the covenant to pray
of us or the tower of David to pray for us? can they even pray in
the first place?
bless you thanks 
