Let's talk about Noah's Ark here

last SG · 2005-08-24T17:52:22+00:00

nothing! everyone is entitled to their own views. it would be presumptious to think that i am always correct. the same must be said for others though but...

Icemoon SG

Not many mountains are that square, begs the question whether Lishan is a natural mountain or artificial one (where is earthling our academic advisor haha ) -

In size, the mausoleum is larger than the Great pyramid in Egypt. Seen from afar, it is a hill overgrown with vegetation. It is believed that the tomb consists of an interior city and an exterior city. The exterior of the mausoleum is a low earth pyramid with a wide base. In 2000 years, the original 100-meter-high (328 feet) hillock has been weathered down to about 47 meters (154 feet) high, 515 meters (1,690 feet) long from south to north and 485 meters (1,591 feet) wide east to west.

source: http://www.travelchinaguide.com/attraction/shaanxi/xian/terra_cotta_army/mausoleum_2.htm

wah leow .. and how come the height was reduced to like 1/2 in 2000 years?!

earthlings73 SG

To help you out. Razz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

The universe was described by a metric tensor that was either expanding or shrinking, a result that Einstein himself considered wrong and he tried to fix by adding a cosmological constant. The first person to seriously apply general relativity to cosmology without the stabilizing cosmological constant was Alexander Friedmann, whose equations describe the Friedmann-Lemaître-Robertson-Walker universe.

In 1927, the Belgian Catholic priest Georges Lemaître independently derived the Friedmann-Lemaître-Robertson-Walker equations and proposed, on the basis of the recession of spiral nebulae, that the universe began with the "explosion" of a "primeval atom"what was later called the Big Bang.

Einstein couldn't believe that the Universe is expanding, hence adding a constant to his own equation to "correct" the supposed error.

Lemaitre challenged Einstein, saying that his original idea was correct, without the need to add that constant. And propose the earliest form of the Big Bang Theory.

Hubble helped to provide evidences of the Big Bang Theory by observing the sky.

Einstein later admited that adding the constant was the greatest mistake in his life.

I mean, if there's such an important find which will leave us without any doubt of the existence of God in creating the big flood the covers the world. Why hide all the evidences? But proceed to claim that they have the evidences? Twisted Evil

If the expedition took place 12 months ago, why are they more keen to produce a movie (which need time and resource), rather than spending the resource to proof that their finds are accurate?

Icemoon SG

China's secret pyramids - http://www.atlantisrising.com/issue11/ar11chinapyr.html

In investigating what the Chinese authorities will reveal about the pyramids, Hausdorf was told the story of an emperor, Qin Shi Huangdi, who lived between 259 and 210 B.C. Prior to his reign, bitter feuding between rival states for dominance over a splintered China went on from 475 to 221 B.C. It was Emperor Huangdi who ended the fighting. And thanks to the commentaries of historian Sima Qian, who lived from 145 to 86 B.C., we know the existence and location of the emperor's grave, beneath a hill 150 feet tall, planted with grass and trees. The hill, apparently, is man-made. According to Sima, beneath this hill is a 140-foot-tall pyramid with five terraces. The historian's chronicles state that almost 700,000 workers worked on this tomb. The earth was removed down to ground water level. This floor was then poured with molten bronze. On this platform a stone sarcophagus was laid. When the structure was completed, those who knew where the entrance was were silenced; they were entombed alive. To further disguise it, the pyramid was carefully covered with earth and grass to give the impression of a natural hill.

The pyramid's interior was quite elaborate. Sima wrote of an artificial universe painted with stars impressed upon the ceiling of the chamber in which the emperor lies. There was an entire landscape with rivers made out of mercury, somehow held in constant motion. The tomb is well protected against grave robbers, utilizing quite an ingenious security system. Crossbows with mechanical triggers make up an automatic shooting gallery, with a hail of arrows targeting intruders. For a long time, these historical commentaries were considered as mere legends. But new excavations around the outer perimeter of this hill seemed to confirm Sima's chronicles, an analysis of the earth from the immediate area of the great pyramid revealed an exceptionally high concentration of mercury. It would seem the archeologists are taking the stories seriously, as they are reticent to work around this ancient emperor's high-security tomb. We are leaving this tomb under the hill to the future, so the next generation has something to work on, says one of the leading archeologists.

Icemoon SG

It is not a movie, but documentary. When they conducted the expediton, I guess the documentary was almost finished (though I'm not too sure they did the interviews before or after the expediton .. should be before 'cos the documentary is chronological), save for editing, mixing, etc.

To prove their finds, they have to revisit the site again with an international team of experts. But this is almost impossible, given the government reluctance for more activities on their "secret military base" and the foul weather. In fact they promised the govt. not to take anything from the expedition.

The place where they found the supposed ark was waterlogged. Or else they would have gotten inside. Don't think govt very happy if pple start all the drilling and machinery on their "secret military base".

laurence82 SG

no no, the point is, all sources point to a histroical great flood, not a biblical great flood, get it?

Icemoon SG

the biblical great flood surely has to be the historical great flood, if you admit "all sources point to a historical great flood", right?

One step at a time ..

laurence82 SG

This is hogwash. The great flood are recorded in every culture, most as old or older than bible itself. Proving that the great flood exists does not directly prove the bible is written through the inspiration of the holy spirit. Therefore, yo ucan prove that the great flood mentioned in bible is true, but not everything else abt the holy spirit.

You got to get sumthing more concrete than this.

laurence82 SG

I am already over that step. I read abt this flood since young.

The amount of proof doesnt matter. Its why would someone use something that is recorded in every culture and attribute it to the work of god, if its assumed to be true.

Icemoon SG

I need you to give weight to the evidence mah. Actually xtians don't ONLY use the great flood to give veracity to the Bible. Hehe ..

You see why I need you to confirm the first step? 'cos if you are like SIS this don't believe that don't believe, then no point in discussion liao .. haha

laurence82 SG

Give veracity to the bible in which point?

Thats there is this historical great flood, or that here is this historical great flood which is the work of god?

This we must make clear.

Or how abt, the bible and other sources give veracity to the Egyptian records. So should i start praying to Ra and Horus?

Icemoon SG

Give veracity to the bible that the flood mentioned is historical and not bullshit. The Christian faith is based on one single fundamental historical event - the death and resurrection of Christ. For it is written, "if Christ has not risen, then our faith will be in vain". If the resurrection of Christ is fiction from somebody's dream, then the whole Christian faith will collapse like a deck of cards. Not like other religions - which of them are based on one historical event or historical events? If Lao-Tze was fictitious, does that make the Tao less true? Or if Buddha received enlightenment after a dream and not under bodhi tree, will Buddhism be demolished?

Pray to Ra and Horus? For what? The Egyptian gods got frighten you with second coming and judgement day meh? They ask you to worship them 'cos they are the only gods? I think the worldview offered by any party (be it chinese, egyptian, mayan .. ) is very important.

laurence82 SG

Originally posted by Icemoon:

Give veracity to the bible that the flood mentioned is [b]historical and not bullshit. The Christian faith is based on one single fundamental historical event - the death and resurrection of Christ. For it is written, "if Christ has not risen, then our faith will be in vain". If the resurrection of Christ is fiction from somebody's dream, then the whole Christian faith will collapse like a deck of cards. Not like other religions - which of them are based on one historical event or historical events? If Lao-Tze was fictitious, does that make the Tao less true? Or if Buddha received enlightenment after a dream and not under bodhi tree, will Buddhism be demolished?

Pray to Ra and Horus? For what? The Egyptian gods got frighten you with second coming and judgement day meh? They ask you to worship them 'cos they are the only gods? I think the worldview offered by any party (be it chinese, egyptian, mayan .. ) is very important.[/b]

There, you just say it. The flood is historical event, not an historical event worked by hands of god. The god coems in from other pats of the bibles, and its just subsume a historical event as their own.

So, for your last para, anyone who have an 'armagedonic views' i must listen to them? Laughing Instead of listening to faiths that have very great impact on individual spiritual development and moral values?

Icemoon SG

That's why a flood is not enought proof and you need an ark .. isn't it? Wait .. not only an ark but a rectangular ark (fang1 zhou1) of some dimension mentioned in the Bible. Wink

So, for your last para, anyone who have an 'armagedonic views' i must listen to them? Laughing Instead of listening to faiths that have very great impact on individual spiritual development and moral values?

I would say find out about their worldview. cults that encourage believers to commit suicide to meet god should be eliminated first.

Also the line between faith and philosophy is blurred. Taoism, Confucianism and Buddhism all started out as some kind of philosophy. We can listen to those faiths - why not? I hope no xtian is suggesting every principle in those faiths is demonic in nature. Even the Pope respects the Dalai Lama right?

Icemoon SG

I think many non-believers have the wrong expectation of Christianity. The Bible is not about morality and helping people find spiritual development. It is about God and our relationship with Him. Christianity is about God's saving grace through the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

laurence82 SG

An ark that can carry that many animals?

And yes to ur second para, christians would accept every principle subcriebd by those faith?

FOr example, in Buddhism, god is considered to be below the state of nirvana. They dont accept jesus as a saviour, at most as an enlightened being. Taoism..funny, who really believe in I Ching here? I only know honeybunzie got take fortune teling b4...

laurence82 SG

Precisely why i look for faiths that harp on spiritual development and moral values and helping people.

Who cares abt the universal truth when it makes people too narrowminded, dogmatic and put them at conflicts?

I dont have this expectation of christianity, its because of what it is that put me off...

stupidissmart SG

http://www.gotquestions.org/earth-age.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/star-light.html

Lets put the problem of these 2 sites simply. They assume tat science is wrong without giving any evidences why they think of it tis way. They can even come out and claim tat light does not travel at the same speed when it was never observed to be changing. If they claim tat light changes speed, prove it then the arguments made sense. Otheriwse if any claims can be made without justifications, then stories like snow white etc can be made believable as well.

I would guess that God did all these because He loves His creations. And according to His pure justice, character, will, and plan, these things required to happen. Yes, He could simply destroy everything BUT the bible tells us, "For God so love the world....."

God had already decided to destroy the world in a great flood. If he had already decided to destroy the world, might as well erase them in an easier fashion by flicking his figners and made them dissappeared etc. Is tis justice, character and plan ? Sound like really no planning...

"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. "(Isaiah 55:9)

The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law. (Deuteronomy 29:29)

From these statement, it can be deduced tat u never really understand god, and it might as well be either hoax, devil in disguise or maybe even an alien. It really is an excuse tat conveniently forget all the things they cannot explain.

The Parable of the Weeds
24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "

If god is omnipotent, he coul have easily remove the weeds without uprooting the wheat. Rolling Eyes

It has indeed been found! The exact location has been found. I watched the documentary film already. They have photos as proof. Actually they want to go down the ark which is buried under snow, but because the ark is filled with water, and the ark or the "cave" that leads inside the ark is too wide and perhaps deep, it will be too dangerous to enter. They said that they would have to wait for the water to dry off before they can enter the ark to take photographs.

There have been some number of expedition to mount ararat and it was found not to be there. Up till now it is still simply a claim without any verification. In the past there have been many incredible claims before and it all end up to be over optimistic. Rolling Eyes Lets put it tis way... scientifically noah ark should be totally eroded to nothingness after so many years. tat is probably why many people think tat noah ark is a wild goose chase over a ship tat either never exists or even if it do, shouldn't be around after so long

the actual expedition which claimed to find the ark .. no historians or archaeologists on the team. not that they dun want .. 'cos the guide say can only bring two pple (hmm did they count the camera man?) .. so the director brought the pastor along .. lol

Bringing a pastor for a scientific expedition is really... well... unscientific... Laughing Why do u think there no historians or archaeologists wanna come along

However, the General Director Men-fei Yun said that the documentary did not aim to prove the authenticity of their discovery, but focused on guiding people to see God and His judgement through the Flood

Tat again shows something is missing here Laughing Why not prove the authenticity of their discovery ? Tat works better in guiding people to see god isn't it ? It sound more and more like a money spinning production

I don't think as a christians themselves, they want to lie. Worse till, lie to the whole world by showing false photographs and videos, tainting the name of Jesus Christ

For earning a lot of money, why not ? Tis had been done in the past before u know

If Noah's ark is proven to be true, then we can prove the truthfulness of the bible.

It do help in making the bible more credible, but it is never proven. So conversely if noah ark is proven to be false, does it make the bible the biggest lie in mankind ?

The world says that it is not found and you believe? Didn't the world say that the earth was square in the past?!

Christians say tat the earth is square in the past for the longest of time because the bible suggest the world is flat...

To prove their finds, they have to revisit the site again with an international team of experts. But this is almost impossible, given the government reluctance for more activities on their "secret military base" and the foul weather

Why don't ask Turkey to form a team to search the ark themselves ? They r a muslim country and muslim also believe in Noah ark themselves. If it is so credible, believe me turkey will have already sent a huge team over and be the one tat made tis discovery first

Morality ? by allowing his believers to commit anything they want and yet receive salavtion ? Finding spiritual development ? Wat if it is wrong and they should be believers of Islam instead ? One need to be convinced it is real before believing in it isn't it ?

Icemoon SG

Spiritual development in Christianity is not non-existent, just that you have to receive salvation first. I see many xtians like very spiritual -filled. Look at how pple worship in charismatic churches .. Laughing Moral values .. I think xtians too much morals liao. Cannot do this cannot do that. Cannot even abort the baby, cannot even waste sperms. Cannot gamble and rather let other countries overtake us. Cannot visit prostitutes .. na bei they even persuade prostitutes to give up their jobs in Geylang. KNN .. got even a rule prohibiting adultery. Laughing

Helping people - I mentioned the orphanages and even half-way houses. These are things very often hidden from the public. For example, everyone knows HYS from CHC, but how many of you know the social institutions adopted by CHC? How many of you know CHC involvement in 'social service'?

And like someone said, the universal truth has to be narrow-minded by definiton. It is the attitude and how Christians relate to people that makes the difference.

Sad to say, Christianity also put me off sometimes. Mr. Green

Icemoon SG

double.

PS: even double post contributes to ratings right? Rolling Eyes

Icemoon SG

Haha .. the ark zoo problem .. I'm not well read on this. Can let others enlighten you on this.

Accept every principle? I have a question here - does Buddhism accept every principle in Taoism?

To compare God with nirvana .. hmm .. can compare meh? Different philosophical base leh.

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