The body of Christ

ben1xy SG

hi all!

few weeks back.. was having a talk with some friends.. we were chatting abt communion. As most of you would know.. Catholics believe that Jesus is truly present in the communion (Eucharist)... as in we are consuming the real body of Christ.

anyway .. i was with 3 friends ... 2 mentioned that it was just a symbol ... another one mentioned that it was the true body of Christ.

my question now ... is it a case of different denominations having different intepretations? or is there a prevailing view?

just being curious

disclaimer: i am not trying to insinuate anything

ceecookie SG

The Da Vinci Code might have a few clues to yr question…

ben1xy SG

not Dan Brown again .... i admit that i enjoyed the book though ... but it's mostly fictional.

anyway .. do watch subsequent shows dismantling and rebutting his claims ... it'll give u a more balanced view

fandango SG

Protestants: it is a symbol.
Roman Catholics: present in the Eucharist.

so who is right? consider this:

"For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. "
1 Cor 11: 23-25

key word is............................................ you want to make a guess?

ben1xy SG

22While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take it; this is my body."

23Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, and they all drank from it.

24"This is my blood of the[b] covenant, which is poured out for many," he said to them. 25"I tell you the truth, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it anew in the kingdom of God."

from mark

26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."

27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the[b] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."

this was from Matthew

anyway ... i am not gonna enter a theological debate abt this ... this debate has been done over and over again between the Catholic and Christian church. and compared to those great theologians ... i am but minute in my knowledge.

what i was confused abt is ; 'do all Chrsitian churches think its a symbol?' coz i was surprised that my Christian friend thought it was the true Body of Christ

ben1xy SG

Fandango ... with all due respect to your beliefs ... if the answer was so simple ... there would not have been soo much debate over it.

So who is right? u have urs and i have mine.

i was asking a question on prevailing beliefs... not who is wrong or right.

being catholic i believe that mine is right.

and u have ur beliefs .. which i respect.

period

iveco SG

Originally posted by fandango:
[b]

Protestants: it is a symbol.
Roman Catholics: present in the Eucharist.

[b]

What about the Eastern churches? What is their stand?

ben1xy SG

Eastern Orthodox i know they treat it as the real body

the Apostlic churches like greek orthodox believes in the true body of Christ in the Eucharist

fandango SG

the way i end my previous post was to leave the reader to make his/her own opinion. that's about it.

iveco SG

Both factions have valid points. However, the Pope's word is final, as always.

ceecookie SG

hah hah..speaking of Pope hor..there's one 2004 episode of Unessecery Censorship where the late Pope John Paul II's hand was digitally blurred to mae the impression that it was a middle finger.... Laughing

ben1xy SG

Cool

fandango SG

u must be kidding.

ceecookie SG

i also wonder why the american like to say For christ sake or Jesus F*ing Christ…...

ben1xy SG

erm .. i think he's referring to the catholic

Honeybunz SG

"Real Presence" means the "bread" is the Body of Christ under the presence of the Bread.

ben1xy SG

transsubstation? wad does that exactly mean ah honeybunz?

is that the transition of bread to the body of Christ during the consecration part of the mass?

Honeybunz SG

From the dictionary....

transubstantiation:

The Roman Catholic doctrine that the whole substance of the bread and the wine changes into the substance of the body and blood of Christ when consecrated in the Eucharist

Icemoon SG

your diagram like not correct? 'cos I thought Lutherans believe in consubstantiation? At least that was what Luther believed? Luther and Calvin differed on this point, one of the rare times their theology disagreed.

Honeybunz SG

From dictionary:
consubstantiation means
The doctrine, proposed by Martin Luther, that the substance of the body and blood of Jesus coexists with the substance of the bread and wine in the Eucharist.

In other words, the body and the bread co-exist during the holy communion. I remember seeing the definition of "Real Presence from the same source of the diagram, but can't remember where liao. I am writing this based on my memory...hehhe

Then to your understanding, what did Calvin believe?

Not sure whether Luther and Calvin have much theology disagreement or not, but I know they have major argument or something after which they decided to move in different ways.