Reconciliation between Christianity and science

last SG · 2004-11-24T17:17:31+00:00

I am back What is your definition of fact then? Fact should be unchanging, but theories are changing, subject to modification. How can they be the same?Fact:...

Icemoon SG

Nope, they don't reject. To put it simply, they just happen to interpret in other ways.

Icemoon SG

How about like only a certain group of believers is like that? You don't find Catholics arguing with their life about creationism. I think Catholics are more "open" about this issue.

stupidissmart SG

Nope, they don't reject. To put it simply, they just happen to interpret in other ways.

I find it almost impossible to interpret the bible in such a way tat says god actually evolve people, not create.

How about like only a certain group of believers is like that? You don't find Catholics arguing with their life about creationism. I think Catholics are more "open" about this issue.

tat doesn't means they believe in evolution either... they just argue lesser on tis...

Icemoon SG

Huh, if people are evolved by God, then who created them?

Aiyah, I dunno what I'm talking liao lah .. a bit like using formula of circle to calculate area of square liddat .. evolution and creation in your context are quite separate things to me.

nightzip SG

Bear in mind many religions existed for many centuries. Unless they have been fully described as such by reliable third parties, religion has never been reconciling with science in the first place.

Bear in mind people like Galileo who kept quiet about telling the church who view anything like the fact that the earth revolves the sun as heretic, Took sometime for the Church to recognise that.

Bear in mind too, early Christians strive to rid of anything unfamiliar to Christianity, such as the Alexanderian science and paganism in and out of the Roman Empire.

Archimedes was left floating out of sphere till some good souls bring him back.

Lastly, imagine for the last two hundred years, without these advances in technology, will we be still so good as to say religion wanna reconcile with science?

In fact, i viewed that, because technology has such huge impact on our lives, with the fact many people are becoming secular and do not believe in any religion at all, its fruitless to talk about religion to them. In fact, it should be that religion mellows down and play along the science line.

Think about it. Many people of all faiths would attribute disaster, miracles and paranormal activities to god and religion, in the past. Heck, hardly any sane people wouldnt be saying such things in modern time. Religion therefore approach a different line to convert people to their side. Only recently do i see religion trying to play along logic and science, rather than faith, Many overly educated people of today would definitely not listen to anything illogical or cannot be proven by science.

While i do not deny religion may reconcile with science, bear in mind, it is only becoming a recent trend, rather than something that is there all along.

Similarly, if there is no technology or science on the tip of our tongue today, i think, we will be all condemning science like hell today..

ah lau is wise! Mr. Green

fandango SG

It's officially called "The Theory of Evolution".

So, evolution is not a science. It is still called a "theory" because, no one soul even up till today can prove, 100% sure that evolution is true and that humans evolved way back from bacteria.

stupidissmart SG

U mixed up the terms of science with usual usage of the word theory. Because it is called theory doesn't means it do not have scientific soundness in it. In scientific terms, when some idea which is not proven is given, they r called "hypothesis", not theory. When they r calld theory, it meant it can be known as a FACT

from dictionary.com

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=theory

A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

Words from Douglas J. Futuyma http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

A few words need to be said about the "theory of evolution," which most people take to mean the proposition that organisms have evolved from common ancestors. In everyday speech, "theory" often means a hypothesis or even a mere speculation. But in science, "theory" means "a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed." as the Oxford English Dictionary defines it. The theory of evolution is a body of interconnected statements about natural selection and the other processes that are thought to cause evolution, just as the atomic theory of chemistry and the Newtonian theory of mechanics are bodies of statements that describe causes of chemical and physical phenomena. In contrast, the statement that organisms have descended with modifications from common ancestors--the historical reality of evolution--is not a theory. It is a fact, as fully as the fact of the earth's revolution about the sun. Like the heliocentric solar system, evolution began as a hypothesis, and achieved "facthood" as the evidence in its favor became so strong that no knowledgeable and unbiased person could deny its reality. No biologist today would think of submitting a paper entitled "New evidence for evolution;" it simply has not been an issue for a century.

fandango SG

so why don't they drop 'theory' from the term?

fallin SG

I find it very strange,people believe in potiananak,ghost,vampire,etc, yet don’t believe in God.

stupidissmart SG

Law: A descriptive generalization or pattern about how some aspect of the natural world behaves under stated circumstances, often stated in a form of a mathematical equation.

Theory: In science, a well-substantiated explanation of how the natural world works that explains facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses.

Before a theory can be included in the system of science, it must meet all of the following criteria:

its ability to explain what has been observed;
its ability to predict what has not yet been observed; and
its ability to be tested by further experimentation and to be modified as required by the acquisition of new data.

http://users.aristotle.net/~asta/science.htm

In short, both r at the same level . The only difference is one is a descriptive explanation while the other can show its behavior mathematically. In short, theories r models tat explain a certain phenomenon in which sometimes laws r derived from it. There r a lot of other science theories as well

Atomic Theory: This theory states that the atom is the smallest unit of matter. The atom is composted of the nucleus in the middle of the atom that is composed of neutrons and protons (both of these may break down into smaller particles). The neutrons have no charge. The protons have a positive charge. Surround the nucleus are electrons that swirl around the nucleus in a large region, rather than orbiting in a fixed pattern (electron cloud). The electrons have a negative charge. Many modern scientists have contributed to our current view of the atom in which the electrons swirl around the nucleus in a large region (electron cloud), rather than orbiting in a fixed pattern. Plus modern quantum theory shows how atomic particles such as electrons may also be seen as having wavelike properties (see below).

Gravity Theory: Gravitation, or gravity, is a force that attracts all objects in the universe. The most familiar of the four fundamental interactions of matter, gravitation has several characteristics that distinguish it from the other interactions. (1). It is universal, (2). it is always attractive, (3). it is a long-range interaction, and (4). it is a long-range attractive force affecting all matter.

Cell Theory: The cell theory of life states: (1). All living material is made up of cells; (2). all cells are derived from previously existing cells; most cells arise by cell division, but in sexual organisms they may be formed by the fusion of sperm and egg; (3). a cell is the most elementary unit of life; (4). every cell is bounded by a plasma membrane, an extremely thin skin separating it from the environment and from other cells; (5). all cells have strong biochemical similarities; and (6). most cells are small, about 0.001 cm (0.0004 in) in length; for example, the smallest cells of the microorganism mycoplasma are 0.3 micrometers in size, whereas some giant algae cells may be several centimeters long.

Quantum Theory: This theory that says that energy exist in tiny discrete units called quanta. Just as earlier theory showed how light, generally seen as a wave motion, could also in some ways be seen as composed of discrete particles (photons), quantum theory shows how atomic particles such as electrons may also be seen as having wavelike properties. Quantum theory is the basis of particle physics, modern theoretical chemistry, and the solid-state physics that describes the behavior of the silicon chips used in computers. Quantum theory and the theory of relativity together form the theoretical basis of modern physics. Later work by scientists elaborated the theory into what is called quantum mechanics (or wave mechanics).

The Germ Theory of Disease: French bacteriologist Louis Pasteur is considered the founder of microbiology. Pasteur argued that infectious diseases were caused by germs. The germ theory has affect our views on infectious disease, surgery, hospital management, agriculture, and industry

DO u believe tat atoms r made from proton, neutrons and electrons ? Do u believe in gravity ? Do u believe tat living things r made up of cells ? Do u believe in photons which is used to explain the discrete level of energy of element ? Do u believe tat germs exists ? Surely these r science knowledge tat even kids knows about

stupidissmart SG

I find it very strange,people believe in potiananak,ghost,vampire,etc, yet don't believe in God

If u believe in pontianak, ghost, vampire etc, u can't believe in god because christainity don't accept them as truth.

BTW I don't believe in these kiddy stuff as well.

fallin SG

The Bible has many instances of demons,ghosts etc etc. Christianity dont accept them as truth but we accept they exist.

stupidissmart SG

Demon there is alot, but vampires and ghost, there r none. (take note tat u never mention about demon in your earlier reply) When I mean ghost, I don't mean holy ghost or spirits. Ghost meant the spirit of the deceased for common natural men which had appeared and animate in the human world. Do they mention tis in the bible ? If u talk about ghost, then u r talking about chinese or malay belief. So if u believe in ghost, u have a clash of faith.

Icemoon SG

Think have leh.

In the Jewish Tanakh, there is an episode of the ghost of Samuel Very Happy

stupidissmart SG

I search the bible and only 3 samuel is there…. none of them speaks of him as a ghost but him as a prophet.

lwflee SG

Huh?

Ghosts != True,

But Exists?!

Icemoon SG

People die liao then become ghost right?

You go search for the Witch of Endor. This is a hint. Very Happy

stupidissmart SG

okie, I found the ghost of samuel... If u ask me, from the passage it appears tat the old medium (witch) had more powers than the priest or father we have now. At least they can conjure out spirits.

Some questions to ask. Wat happen when a person die ? Where do their spirit go to ?

fandango SG

DO u believe tat atoms r made from proton, neutrons and electrons ? Do u believe in gravity ? Do u believe tat living things r made up of cells ? Do u believe in photons which is used to explain the discrete level of energy of element ? Do u believe tat germs exists ? Surely these r science knowledge tat even kids knows about[/b]

Yes, i believe in atoms, proton, neutrons, electrons, gravity, germs, we are made of cells and germs.

But, a big 'but' here, can't you see that all these that you mentioned are independent of theory of evolution? They exist whether or not evolution is true. I will agree whole heartedly with you if you classify these studies as Science, but evolution as science - very far fetched.

In fact, i think evolution is more of a popular belief. I was watching discovery yesterday night and researchers are beginning to suspect that the T-Rex may not be a predetor at all, or even a vegetarian with sharp teeth to chew of the bark and the hard fruits. talk about a 100 years of misguided popular belief. That would throw the Jurassic Park franchise out of the window as well.

Oh well.

stupidissmart SG

I don't know if u r distracting the people or fail to understand... In your previous post u ask why does the term "theory" remain for evolution. I tell u tat being labelled as theory is already very prestigious. The examples like atoms, protons, gravity etc is to show tat the term THEORIES ALREADY MEANT TAT IT IS WIDELY ACCEPTED AS A FACT, AND LAWS ARE SOMETIMES DERIVED FROM THESE THEORIES. It is not to show tat they r linked to evolution or anything, but to show tat evolution too is a theory and it meant it had achieve facthood and is said tat "logical and rational people would accept it as being true". If u think tat protons, electrons etc r true, then u should accept evolution as true since they r graded by almost all the scientists to be at the same level. Tat is they r all theories.

In fact, i think evolution is more of a popular belief. I was watching discovery yesterday night and researchers are beginning to suspect that the T-Rex may not be a predetor at all, or even a vegetarian with sharp teeth to chew of the bark and the hard fruits. talk about a 100 years of misguided popular belief. That would throw the Jurassic Park franchise out of the window as well.

Oh well.

Evolution is a fact. Evolution is not a hypothesis. Evolution is a sceintific theory and by tat term, it meant it is tested, experimented, supported by tons of evidence, can explain a lot of everyday life well and can predict future scientific trends. There r scientist tat says a dust bowl is noah's ark as well, which is proven to be wrong. There r scientist tat say a dinosaur foot prints r human made, and he is also wrong as well. The point is, u don't believe wat anyone says, but should more inclined to believe in wat everyone says. There r always some freak people talking about ridiculous things. U should see through the evidence and see if u agree with the conclusion or not. Evolution is a fundamental theory in biology and medical tat it is as placed to be as important as the theory of atomic structure for electronics/electrical engineers. Frankly the more people argue tat evolution is wrong because of their religious belief, the more it make them look dumb and stubborn to reject a scientific fact tat is so well proven. It is almost the same in the past when christians used believe the earth is flat. Talk about 2000 years of misguided popular belief...

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