New Age disguised as Christian

last SG · 2004-10-13T18:02:20+00:00

Chanting the word and meditation is absolutely rubbish and unchristian…...beware!!!!!!

laurence82 SG

So what is the Truth and what are the Untruths?

Its about finding it and understanding it, not something u can discern, picked out and classify..else u will be the same as those who try to deny the existence of God from logical or scientific side of arguments.

dumbdumb! SG

well, all i can say is this. Christians, who obey and follow, gets saved, non-believers, ignorant or those who deny salvation, despite hearing the message of salvation, goto hell.

be as indignant as you want, that's the whole message. its not like God sabo you, "force" you to believe. everyone has done something wrong, lie, cheat, steal, whatever.. and the result is spiritual death and condemnation. God knows we can't save our sorry asses, and dies a horrible death so that we have a way out, if you choose to repent and believe.

you can of course choose not to believe, its your pasa, i'm sad, but its still your pasa. if you are so sure of what you believe in, why are you so furious when you see Neontera's post? if you are so sure of what you believe in, why would you be so shaken?

for example, i am sure of my own salvation, so no matter how u post stuff telling me i am screwed if i believe in Jesus, and i will goto hell because i believe in Jesus, or i will goto hell if i don't believe in other "gods", i won't get mad. i'm very convinced in the existance of God, the creator of the universe. I definitely believe in Jesus, historically recorded, and supernaturally ressurected. i've seen the power of God at work, in my life, and in the lives of those who believe.

i've felt the loving presence of the Holy Spirit, i've seen the deliverence of people oppressed by demons, i've known of great christian servants, dying with a smile on their face, totally at peace, which doctors could never understand. one example, is the founder of Campus Crusade for Christ, Mr Bill Bright. most people, die with certain unease, nervousness, but ol' Bill died with total peace and actually, he was looking forward to it. because, to us, we are going home.

feel free to be indignant, complain, flame, do as you wish. like i said, its your life, you account for it. everything that is happening around the world now, are all prophecies taking place. let me list down a few examples.

Signs of the End of the Age

Luke 21

5Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, 6"As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down."
7"Teacher," they asked, "when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?"
8He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them. 9When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away."
10Then he said to them: "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.
12"But before all this, they will lay hands on you and persecute you. They will deliver you to synagogues and prisons, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name. 13This will result in your being witnesses to them. 14But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. 15For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict. 16You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death. 17All men will hate you because of me. 18But not a hair of your head will perish. 19By standing firm you will gain life.
20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
25"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

those i have highlighted, aren't they coming true? how many christian cults have you seen? mormons, moonies, christian science.. jehovah witnesses.. all claiming to a certain extent, they are the real deal. in fact, the founder of the moonies cult declared himself the returned christ.

pestilence - given the last 20 decades, look at the outbreak of various incurable deseases such as aids. hell, give u the last 20 years, a sudden outbreak of SARS, Chicken Flu, Mad Cow disease.

Wars and rumour of wars, kingdoms against kingdoms, nations vs nations. World war 1, world war 2, the nations of islam smashing the nation of isreal etc.. even the war on iraq (babylon) was prophecied hundred of years ago.

Jeremiah 50 (i have chosen selected obvious verses, read the whole passage if you want to)

1 This is the word the LORD spoke through Jeremiah the prophet concerning Babylon and the land of the Babylonians [1] :

3 A nation from the north will attack her
and lay waste her land.

9 For I will stir up and bring against Babylon
an alliance of great nations from the land of the north.
They will take up their positions against her,
and from the north she will be captured.
Their arrows will be like skilled warriors
who do not return empty-handed.
10 So Babylonia [2] will be plundered;
all who plunder her will have their fill,"
declares the LORD .
18 Therefore this is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says:

"I will punish the king of Babylon and his land
as I punished the king of Assyria.

41 "Look! An army is coming from the north;
a great nation and many kings
are being stirred up from the ends of the earth.
42 They are armed with bows and spears;
they are cruel and without mercy.
They sound like the roaring sea
as they ride on their horses;
they come like men in battle formation
to attack you, O Daughter of Babylon.
43 The king of Babylon has heard reports about them,
and his hands hang limp.
Anguish has gripped him,
pain like that of a woman in labor.

go ahead and deny what that has happened, try to come up with your "logical" explaination how this thousands of years old prophecy came true. turn a blind eye, carry on your merry ways. but to me, it is as plain as can be. something tremendous is going to happen, its whether you are prepared when it happens.

like i said. its your life, and your pasa. if you want to understand more about Jesus and His gift of life, and what the hell is going on with all these prophecies coming true. you can message either me or neontera or other christians you know. i'm sure they will be more than willing to explain to you.

laurence82 SG

Laughing

Reading thru the gooblegook..

i saw something like the bible predicting the world wars and muslims waging wars against the nation of israel..

to be truthful, i almost fell over my chair laffing..it make nostradamus look like a prophet of God too...since he is also known to make accurate predictions...

U believe in ur Bibles predicting these stuff, ur passa..there is nothing wrong for u, and u and other alone to believe in these stuff..but u never read my post (i am sure) carefully...

i simply dont care what u believe in, and i even made this point all over my replies - ur faith is urs alone, the existence of God canot be logically argued out, and so far i have never made a point to argue against ur belief..

second, i did warn against using articles which 'logically' argues for stuff in the bible such as predictions, or research which cleverly argue all religions link to Christ and so on..even made it a point against people who argue against existence of God there is two sorta argument - argument for faith and argument of facts..

Two reasons why i said this - while the other Christians try to stand up to SIS and argue that the existence of God cannot be argued by logical or scientific argument alone, here you are posting articles that researchers try to argue (cleverly) that all the world happenings are linked and predicted by the Bibles...seem u are wasting ur comrades time and making the rest confused..take a pinch of salt at every research, and do ur own reasoning, just dont force it down my throat

The second reason is most people here start to deviate, and talking about non believers and other things..dont understand why some cannot spend more time productively reading Bibles or talking about other stuff...if u can talk about non believers, why cant i join in? If not happy, dont use this 'not happy, dont talk here" thingy..kinda lame excuse..

If ever want to talk about these things, dont blame non believers or atheist come smashing in to debate. For every action there is a or some consequences. To quote ef ai, why cannot talk about religion? Its sensitive, but no reason why cannot intelllectually debate on it.

i am just questioning the actions of people here..if wanna condemn other religion, dont do it here, do it offline, mabbe among few friends..i am itching to do one citizen arrest for people who do this..but fortunately, most of my friends are mature Christians, and some of them are from CHC or New Creation, which some of u people condemn or discourage.

But I say, their behaviour compared to u guys are much better, and u guys behave more like the Catholic Inquistors, this fact some of u people used to condemn Catholics and making fun of them...why extend animosity out to non believers when there is fightings among diff denominations..

Not happy some more? go ask Qitai and the rest what happened to them when their Christian friends become too evangelistic...how some rambunctious people force people to take in the word of God. I dont see anywhere in the Bible Jesus is a bengster who act pai kia, so dont become one.

spend some time do some soul searching...and consider ur own actions instead of blaming people who do not believe. change oneself to influence others, if u want to spread the word of Gospel. I dont think God himself want a fanclubs full of rubbish people to spread his word.

laoda99 SG

I dun really understand what is ur point laurence82. What Neon did was to point out that meditation is unchristian and we should not be taken in by what the website told us. Who actually is condemning or banning anything? I think in a way u are condemning christians also, as they dun share your beliefs abt meditation ---- "After all, meditation helps lots of people in form of theraphy" "Macham like extremist PAS members who banned wayang kulit and dikir barat, labelling them as 'unIslamic' " "Catholic inquisitors blah blah blah..." Before you criticise people, you already have perceived ideas yourself. How to argue intellectually and fairly like what u said u are doing? Do u attend PAS meetings as well? Then why are u also criticising them?

From your posts, u said u are disgruntled about the in-fighting and conflicts among the churches, even though u are not a christian. Thank you for your concern abt this issue. But......do u actually know the entire picture. Obviously u do not, as you are not even in a church yourself. Why do we disagree with ur frens who are in Modern Churches? Do you actually know why? If you do not, is it fair for u to comment on this?

You are right in saying Christians should go build their own relationships with Christ and not dabble in other issues too much. I agree with u. Thus there is no point in starting a war with you over this issue. I invite u to read the bible yourself and find out for yourself whether meditation is christian or not. If it is, you can post it and share with us your discovery.

Whether you want to believe in HIM, it is actually a free choice. Not all Christians will force christianity down your throat. Not all Christians will tell u u will go to hell if u dun believe in HIM. I personally dun believe in that and there are a lot more Christians out there who dun believe in that too. To be fair to the Christians here, if you are unsure what a thread is talking abt, pls dun argue abt it and then said you are debating intellectually.

laurence82 SG

I never put forth meditation as something Christ proposed. So dont put words into my mouth. Neither did I argued for meditation as a fact.

Your post is the third example in this topic of Christians pointing out the faulty practices of other Christians.

And I didnt say everyone here wanna ban meditation and other heretic practices. But extremism has its beginning too, so my points are - continual pointing out of heretic practices, differences between denominations, condemnation of other religions are just catalysts for extremism. This effect will not be immediate, neither would people realise till its too late. At its early stage, most people do not believe they are extremists. If you believe the Catholic Inquisitions are wrong, step out of the shell and see yourself and your doings.

Besides, this is Singapore. While I never deny evangelism exist in every religion, force the issue, you will get clashes and rebuttals. This, sadly, is the reality here.

Seriously, infighting among churches really dont affect us much. For non believers, we can only shake our heads.

In fact, pointing out some thing which is wrong is the same as condemning it.

tare SG

Joshua 1:8: "This Book of the Law (ie the Bible) shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate in it day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success."

i think it's quite clear the biblical mediation differs tat of other religions or new age.

btw why write a whole thesis when u can just do in 1 verse? Mr. Green

laurence82 SG

Ahh, truly a chio bu who is well versed in the Bibles.

So there is meditation in Christianity! Laughing

Albeit differently.

Btw, any dookie got participate in those New Age sessions thingy?

An Eternal Now SG

Originally posted by tare:
Joshua 1:8: "This Book of the Law (ie the Bible) shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall [b]meditate in it day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success."

i think it's quite clear the biblical mediation differs tat of other religions or new age.

btw why write a whole thesis when u can just do in 1 verse? Mr. Green [/b]

Focusing your mind and filling it up with something seems like general meditation to me.

shade343 SG

Then what is meditaition to you? Isnt Meditation all about focussing? So whats wrong with chanting if it is to help you to focus your mind on God? Do you only believe whatever the Bible says-- even if its against your own logical thinking?

laoda99 SG

I still do not get your point. You already have a perceived idea that the guys from that website are Christians...and that we are pointing out their faulty practices. If they are 'Christians' as what you said, do they need to chant that word or sentence to get closer to GOD? Obviously they do not as it is not biblical. Even your frens in CHC and The Rock do not chant "BANANARAMA" to get closer to GOD. You yourself used the word 'faulty' practices.

What Neon did here was to show Christians the dangers of a distorted Christianity, not what u said as attacking fellow Christians.

Read for yourself what you typed about meditation before u said i put words into your mouth.

If the in-fighting dun affect you much, then no point of you saying anything abt it. I still maintain that not all Christians will condemn you even if you are not a believer. It is really ur pasar. But if you are unsure of the reasons for the differences between the churches, it is not fair for u to comment on it.

laoda99 SG

Is meditation here more important? Or is it the Book of the Law which is emphasized here?

This is not a debate about the word 'meditation'....but meditation in real practice for Christians.

laurence82 SG

Laughing

Distorted Christianity in whose eyes? That is the question.

Those guys in webby not Christians? The tile read : The World Community Christian Meditation. I am sure u do understand English, do u? If they are not Christian, why they invoke the name of God and Jesus? They are a bunch of funny comedians?

Cant u see the relation between pointing out a fault and condemning it, or emphasising a distortion and attacking? Attacks dont have to be direct and explicit. Thats why we have the word 'sarcasm' in our English language.

As long oneself always refer one's words as the Truth, even if he peruse the Bibles and other stuff, that is tantamount to replacing God. To further strengthen my words, read shade343 post for what I meant. He or she said ,and I quote " Do you only believe whatever the Bible says-- even if its against your own logical thinking?

Its the same when the extremist Muslims persue the Koran, and insisted the women wear burqa and other funny rules because the Koran say so. See the similarity? And then some other bunch come in and say "Hey no such things"

Depends on who is the majority seriously.

Btw, dont affect me much doesnt mean I wont say anything. Its the same when a friend has certain problems - mabbe he is too hot tempered and he didnt realise it, not my pasa, but I refuse to point out him his problems? And let him continue in his ignorance?

An Eternal Now SG

"meditate" here means filling your mind with the bible, is it not? when your mind is focused on something hard and long enough, you are meditating.

laurence82 SG

Meaning for Christians, focusing one thoughts on God is actually meditating?

laoda99 SG

You are wrong about the majority issue. More people are turning to those modern Churches in Singapore now. Probably they have become the majority.

As a non-believer, how can u advise your fren if you do not know what exactly is troubling him? If you do this, you can only confuse him, not help him grow. If you really want to help him, stop confusing him. Read the bible yourself and share with him instead.

laoda99 SG

You are wrong about the majority issue. More people are turning to those modern Churches in Singapore now. Probably they have become the majority.

As a non-believer, how can u advise your fren if you do not know what exactly is troubling him? If you do this, you can only confuse him, not help him grow. If you really want to help him, stop confusing him with a lot of your "what-ifs". Read the bible yourself and share with him instead.

An Eternal Now SG

when there is nothing AT ALL in their minds except God, they are meditating.

NeonTetra SG

Psalm 1
Blessed is the man
who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked
or stand in the way of sinners
or sit in the seat of mockers.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
and on his law he meditates day and night.
3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water,
which yields its fruit in season
and whose leaf does not wither.
Whatever he does prospers.

4 Not so the wicked!
They are like chaff
that the wind blows away.
5 Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.

6 For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked will perish.

Note:

Christian meditations involves filling our minds with the laws and words of God rather than emptying it. It means to remember God's instructions and promises He gave in His Word, it means to think of His goodness and His ways all the days of our lives. Certainly not blanking our minds and chant some 'biblically sounding' words and expect to see 'god'

Smile

Xabir SG

There is a different view of Indians on God.

They believe God is in an absolute sense, unthinkable, non-dualistic, its a superconsciousness.

So, to be one with God, is to achieve the superconsciousness state of God. One way is through meditation practices.

I, however, am a Buddhist, and do not share the same idea as the Hindus or the Indians.

I do, however, agree on many of Jesus's teachings and especially gospels like the Gospel of Thomas and a few others.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas.html

I know lots of you may express doubts on this gospel, but I think it is authentic, just that the christians don't seem to be able to accept it. There's no purpose of someone else to create a gospel of such wisdom, since not many religions share the same concept during early christian times in judaist countries.

anyway, just expressing my own opinion.

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