Meaningful conversation about atheism and faith

red_ryder SG

Nope, I'm not an agnostic. Agnostics claim that they don't know whether a god exists or not, thus do not make any judgments. It is purely a matter of knowledge. I am an Atheist because I do not believe in higher beings or gods, and that belief is based upon reasoning and logic. Agnosticism is a matter of knowledge, whereas Atheism is simply the absence of belief. You can have atheistic agnostics or religious agnostics.

gasband SG

I may not be able to disqualify Darwinism or evolution but is it really easier to believe than the biblical talk that God created us?

Is it really so easy to believe:

1) when Darwin said that the leap from non living chemicals to simple one cell organism isnt that much but now we can know that even the most simple one cell organism is so complicated that no one today can claim to make a perfect duplication.

2) When Darwin said that one cell organisms are simple when we can know nowadays that even the most basic one cell organism has its own decoding systems, memory banks to store and retrieve impressive amounts of information, and proofreading and quality control mechanisms which safeguard against errors. Does this look simple?

3) Blind chance is an incredibly inefficient way to accomplish anything complex. If i were to put the 26 alphabets into a bag, how many of u will bet that I can get the 9 letters forming 'EVOLUTION' in the correct order and how long do you think it would take even if i achieve it.

I would not go on further because i am not well studied in evolution but I can only say that even if there is no 100% evidence that God created us, EVOLUTION is still hard a pill to swallow given the complexity of it all.

M SG

I'm sorry I may have misread. I had presumed that if one didn't have a firm evidential belief of sorts in a matter, one would be doubtful and noncommital about the issue, recognising it could be impossible to know (whether there is a God) and hence an agnostic. So would you be an atheistic agnostic? since you do not know if there is a god or any higher power out there (or within) and thus lack a god belief. No? Alright, atheist it is then. =)

Originally posted by red_ryder:
Nope, I'm not an agnostic. Agnostics claim that they don't [b]know whether a god exists or not, thus do not make any judgments. It is purely a matter of knowledge. I am an Atheist because I do not believe in higher beings or gods, and that belief is based upon reasoning and logic. Agnosticism is a matter of knowledge, whereas Atheism is simply the absence of belief. You can have atheistic agnostics or religious agnostics. [/b]

Share with me this reasoning and logic that gives you faith in the void of divinity, is that why you're here? Before so, what would it take to convince, even when it does, assure you? A supporting paradox? Miracles? A believing heart?

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

I don't see how evolution, if it works or not (and I believe it does... woah hold your horses and let me explain), should impact your belief in the concept of a God.

After all, what are we in the physical but a particulate organization of energy in the end, abbet terms such as biological or inorganic are simply concepts for man to classify matter, which I believe has little bearing on the fact that the entire universe is basically made of one stuff... matter, the particulate nature of energy.

Hence lift up your myopic sights from how life arose to how existence itself came into existence. What was the first cause? What made all this? We know for one thing that this universe is a finite, inperfect system that will wind down in the end, like a fire running out of fuel. It cannot fuel itself, it cannot make itself go on, as we all have known that this is impossible for all finite systems.

Basically every concept in science is a study of finite methods, and I'm not surprise things get terribly messed when we try to grasp infinite things with our finite minds and methods. It's no wonder many find the idea of rationalizing and reasoning God into being basically a hopeless task. We can do it to some extent, but to try to define what he's ALL about is prehaps a fool errand. And so many of us give up.

The truth is, we cannot know it all. Christians don't dare claim they know even much about God besides what we believe has been revealed to us. My opinion? Evolution had little bearing on weather God exists or not, the question of God is ultimately a question of faith unfortunately. But I know that despite my overwhelming rational mind and heavy handed knowledge of supposed athiestic disciplines of science (which no doubt raised many eyebrows admist my kin) I can say that God worked for me, and I believe in Him.

Why? Can I put it down to a rational, idealized choice?

In a way I can, I couldn't rationalize God, but I knew that I had nothing to lose by trying Him out for once. I mean, if He didn't exist, He would't work out. What did I have to lose anyway? Was I going to keep rationalizing and trying to comprehend life, let alone this universe with my finite mind and die never actually giving it a shot? Again, what did I have to lose?

So I "gambled". And hey presto... it worked.

As I said, we can only explain and tell you so much... most of the rest I'm afraid, is up to you to try it out for yourself and see if it works. 23 million chinese christians facing intense presceution from the chinese govt. obviously had everything to gain had they just bought the atheistic party line, but why do they persist? Why? chinese christians? Why? Why do they do it?

Unfortunately nobody can be told who or what God is, you will just have to experience Him for yourself.

sillyme SG

From the inputs so far, what most of us are saying is that none of us waited to prove that God exists before we believed.

Many would say the Bible is the proof and much more would disapprove of that. Believe is really a personal choice. Jesus performed miracles and yet many accused him of blasphemy. God can appear right in front of you, and you may still not believe He exists.

I would say God's existence is shown in His creations. This earth and the life that populates it.

And it's not enough to just believe of His existence. Christianity is a two-way relationship with God. We are blessed by abiding in His love and obeying commandments.

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