PES F = Medically Unfit for Any Form of NS? Declare? How?

Spellbreak SG

I’ve a heart mummur and the doctor is considering (strongly) for PES F, however this is outside doctor and whether I want to bring it into ns is totally in my power. So I want to ask the lao jiao PES F people or anyone who has something to contribute:

WHAT ARE THE FACTUAL FLAWS AND BENEFITS OF PES F?

I’d just like that question answered because it’s something alot of people ask but somehow one smartass or another will chap jiao inside and distract everyone by ‘advising’ the asker on what he should do instead of answering the question.

I hope this will help people who really want to know.

fudgester SG

1. I also have heart murmur, and I declared it, and I got PES B.

2. As much as it is 'totally in your power' as to whether or not you want to declare it, please do the right thing and sound it off to the CMPB MO.

If you collapse from heart problems during NS, and the investigation finds that you failed to declare your heart condition, you can forget about medical compensation or anything like that from MINDEF.

3. Benefits? You don't have to do NS.

Flaws? Future employers will ask you why MINDEF doesn't even want to take you on as a clerk. They will then think twice about hiring you.

Bottom line? Just sound off your medical condition during your pre-enlistment checkup, and back it up with a specialist's letter. Leave it to the MO to decide what your PES status should be.

dangerboi SG

the medical board will make a thorough and professional judgement on your illness. don't worry about the PES status.. employers look more into other stuffs than your PES status.. for example, the selection criteria in certain MNCs is way past your PES status. It's your grades and your ability to make significant contributions which will result in profits for the company that are important. It's a fact that some people are less physically fit than the others.

If you are feeling unwell, you better report it. However, never ever malinger.

OranDe SG

Here's a couple of basic benefits and flaws.

Benefits:

- You don't have to serve ns.

- Your life plans is moved earlier by two years.

Flaws:

- Your medical condition are problems in your life already.

- Your first job will get fresh graduate pay instead of ns graduate pay which is $200+ less.

These are benefits and flaws of being medical exempted. I was downgraded to medically exempted and the employers won't ask why you're exempted etc. There's no reason why they should ask you because sg females and foreigners can have medical conditions yet employed. Employers won't interfere with your life but judge from what you can deliver for them. Your skills, passion and talent are what employers see. My poly lecturer has medical conditions yet still can work. Biasness won't give employers any benefits.

Heart murmur is depends on severity. If your private doctor recommended you to medically boarded out, it's probably severe. You can ask him to write a letter. It's up to the MO to decide. Usually, pes f is for people with severe conditions or when your condition worsens alot while exposed to ns environment.

One thing I need to mention: Military environment can't be compared with civilian workforce. I had a female classmate in poly who have condition same as mine who can survive in civilian world but will never in military support environment exposure. These two environments are polar opposites. You may cope in civilian workforce but not as military clerk. Some people thinks that military clerk has easy life but they're are wrong. They still treat you as a soldier with a military mentality. The environment you're exposed in military are different from a civilian's one.

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The more detailed benefits and flaws would be the change in skills, brain growth and mentality and perspectives on things.

Flaw for exemption: People who're exempted missed out on an optional skill. Guys who underwent ns will gain superior practical skills than others and a heart of steel. It's due to the changes of brain chemicals from the military environment exposure which influences that shape your perceptions on things. They're favored in jobs that requires full use of practical skills. Jobs that requires decision making, policemen, lawyers, banking, decision making boss, constructions and jobs that requires these practical and decision-making skills. That's benefits for nsmen who underwent and exposed to military environment and developed their brain to work this way. Some changes in the brain chemicals that military males develop but sg females, exempted males and foreign talents will never gain.

Benefit for exemption: The difference between male and female brain chemicals. Male-typical brain think of instructions and answers (practicality and decisions) while female-typical brain has the ability to produce more perspectives and production of ideas (perspectives, creativity and emotions). Ns environment influence and shape your mind more towards the "male-typical brain". If you're exempted, you retain the skills of being able to produce more perspectives and productive on new ideas than men who underwent military exposure.

I watched tv program last 4th March 10pm+ sharing that there's a poll among male employers stating that females brings in more money for them in Singapore. This is due to the differences of brain chemicals working in different people. They're more productive in terms of selling their ideas, giving many perspectives and unique ideas which practical-incline males can't conjure. Practical-incline brains are prone to play safe in society.

If your job is like music composer, interior designer, scientist, businessmen and jobs which requires you to produce your own ideas to sell, it's beneficial if you're exempted. These jobs requires you to be productive and ability to produce several perspectives. You cannot be too practical in jobs like these. E.g. Practical-incline men as interior designers will only think of squares and boxes in their designing process. Perceptions that led them to think that a door must be rectangle and a window must be square. They disregard designs and the meaning behind it. Practical-incline brains will think colour green as a mixture of blue and yellow while the other brain thinks green as a representation of jealousy and nature. This is how the mind works differently between a practical-incline and productive-incline brains. These are the benefits of sg females, exempted males and foreign talents. They retain this ability, while men who're exposed and shaped from military environment are prone of losing this skill along the way with practical and instruction-developed mentality.

I hope I gave you a good answer of the benefits and flaws.

There's nothing perfect in this world. When one gains something, he loses another.

Lokey SG

Two years of NS experiences is working experiences whether it is a combat or non-combat vocation.

I dont think NS has changed how my brain has worked.

OranDe SG

@Lokey,

Yup. Military is a working experience. :) That's why it has environmental influences to our minds which changes and shapes our perception on things sub-consciously. E.g. Lawyers need logical skills and working on it's environment develops logic points. Designers increases creativity and working on it's environment develop creative points.

As for military environmental influences, it develop practicality skills since they have to work practically in every situations. It teaches everyone is the same with no share of own thinkings. There's no space for emotions and not being able to voice out your own opinions and perspectives. The work requires people to follow, listen orders and giving instructions. When people does it repetitively, it'll be part of them. The opposite of practicality is the ability to think with various perspectives with a share of own opinions and emotions to produce ideas. Unfortunately, people can't have both of these skills. While it increases one, the other has to be decreased because of our brain structure. It depends on which side the brain is inclined towards.

Military can be a good working experience for future bosses and lawyers as their jobscope. :) It helps with decision makings and need to be practical at every choices. However, there're various other jobs that has no relations with military experiences. Jobs such as designers, scientists, businessmen and composers doesn't require any military experiences. People with these jobs will see that their military experience has nothing to do with what they're doing now. Instead of obeying, giving instructions and playing safe, they've to come up with new selling ideas for their bosses, sharing their various perspectives towards the project, can't think too practical on concepts and can't have same flow of thoughts with others if they want to stand out in the competitive world. It's the reason why most employers usually don't count in military experience while employing.

(Sorry, the post is abit long. I've habit to explain and share things which is why I like reading forums. ^^)

Lokey SG

You are right at some point. However, 12 years of education shape some1 to be thinking in a certain manner. Plus 4 years of university education that further shape the person's thinking intensitively. Comparatively, 2 years of NS only contribute 11% of the person's experience for a uni grad.

c2-01 SG

what are the excuses you can give to the employer that you don't need to serve ns?

Maybe just lie that you have completed ns to the employer?

As long as not govt job they should not check.

If they ask for your COS, just say you lost it

Lokey SG

what are the excuses you can give to the employer that you don't need to serve ns?

Maybe just lie that you have completed ns to the employer?

As long as not govt job they should not check.

If they ask for your COS, just say you lost it

No need to give excuse. The person will have to declare medical for the company to buy insurance for that person. The boss will know directly what happened.

The COS is reallly for that extra $200 to $500 for the NS men will get when they do for gov job.

OranDe SG

That's true.. ns contributes 2 years of lifetime but the psychological effect is more intensive than 12 years of education. Military environment uses the 'pain is gain' system. Psychologically, pain is something which makes the shape with more impact and last longer than regular learning experiences. It also includes the yearly return to refresh back the experiences in ns.

I had classmates who complete ns before diploma and the way he worked from enrollment until graduation remains the same. During class presentations' feedbacks, different lecturers mentioned from time to time that he should explore more perspectives and can't be too practical. I notice the same pattern each time between an ns graduate and a female/foreign student presenter. One is too practical and general, the other relates with more perspectives.

Unfortunately, not everyone could enter uni and some planned not to. Most of my sec school male friends graduated from poly who applied for uni get rejected. Out of 20+ ns completed male ex-classmates from sec and poly, only 4 ns graduates actually get enrolled. Surprisingly, more of my female classmates I known were accepted. Estimately more than half of them who applied were accepted right after diploma graduation. One of my friends said that half of her classmates were foreign students.

I don't know the reason for it. It could either be past records of previous batches or foreign students fees are higher.

I feel that males who went through military should be given more chances to enter uni than the foreign students. They deserve and need the slot more.

dangerboi SG

@Lokey,

(Sorry, the post is abit long. I've habit to explain and share things which is why I like reading forums. ^^)

I agree with your points in the second para..one cannot be a well-rounder...well-rounder is only found in dictionaries and films..in reality, your genes and the environment will tell you what you are.

but....

Military experience and law? The connection isn't strong...which part of law are you referring to? military law? business law? corporate law?patent law? criminal law? Are you referring to the context in Singapore? Also, you used the word "require" which neccessitates something. You should use words like complementary or added-advantage. "Require" gives one an opinion that military experience is a pre-requisite in those jobs that you had mentioned.

In addition, you shouldn't have metioned the pros and cons. It is a medical condition that TS is having which will affect the classification of his pes and listing down pros and cons will only affect his judgement and that should be avoided entirely.

dangerboi SG

heart murmur and pes f shouldn't be given pros and cons.

Diseases like polycythemia could be given pros and cons but that is another story. The right way is to tell TS that the medical board will make a professional judgement on his condition. Listing down pros and cons isn't the appropriate answer.

OranDe SG

but....

There was no mentioning of connection between military and law. So... I'm alittle confused about your 2nd paragraph. ^^ What was mentioned in the 1st paragraph is that different working environment shapes a person differently. Lifestyle which is repetitive and inflict pain makes a practice, practice makes how people perceived things naturally and part of it. Such as military shapes a person sub-consciously to be strong, being practical in daily life and doesn't use much emotions towards situations. :) These points will be useful in some jobs but not in some other which requires the opposite. (e.g. occupations that requires people to work with emotions, open box and sensitiveness.) The pros and cons would be fully depend on the type of job he'd be doing in the future.

Yes, I should've used "disadvantage" and "added-advantage" instead of "require" as it might had sounded and mistaken as a pre-requisite. Thanks for bringing that up and clarify. :)

You got a point that the right answer would be advising TS that the med board will make a professional judgement on his condition. Since his med status is not finalised, I was too rushed to share the pros and cons with him for focusing on answering his main question.

dangerboi SG

Cheers....

I'm not against you but certain people tend to "keng" their way through and I'm not referring to TS. If they have a medical condition, they should inform their superiors immediately.

Since it's required by the law to serve national service for them, they should just serve and .....