Help Choose Job: DXO (Mindef) / Software Engineer (ST Elec)?

Disappointed Slacker SG

Hi everyone,

This will be a somewhat long post where I elaborate about myself so you are clear of what is going on, in which you can then hopefully give your analysis and constructive opinions.

I'm currently a fresh graduate thinking about my career options. I graduated from NUS with a degree in Bachelor of Computing (Communications and Media), 2nd Class Honours (Upper).

I've already went through a lot of interviews for the companies I wanted, without success, and so in my desperation, I applied for ST Electronics Info-Software Systems for the position of Software Engineer and MINDEF for the position of a DXO. The application for the DXO position is a long process where you have to go for a psychometric test, then an interview, and then a tour around the DXO's workplace.

From what I know from my friends, ST Electronics Info-Software System offers permanent contract with salary of $3200/month and 13th month bonus. I got an offer and so I am to reply within one week's time. At the same time, fortunately or unfortunately depending on how you look at the circumstances, I also got a call from MINDEF. In response to my e-mail asking them regarding my candidature for DXO position, they stated that they are keen to take me in, but they need time to process my application so I can go for yet more process... Which is medical check-up and security clearance. So I must pick one of my choice VERY SOON.

I've no intention to stay on my first job because I prefer to explore a little of what's outside before settling down on a job I like to do for the long-term. My initial intention for my first job is software development, where I can learn the in-depth technical skills (programming, software engineering frameworks, testing frameworks, etc) so that I can slowly climb my way up to my ultimate goal as a project manager, which deals with management, coordination, and people-relations skills. I believe that being a Software Engineer at ST Electronics allows me to have the technical skills I need as a stepping stone towards a management position (We should lead by example, after all). My DXO position also requires Computing background, but its primary job role is to brief and coordinate the soldiers and then use the computer system SAF provided to conduct simulation exercises. Secondary roles include managing the outsourced Systems Engineers who are maintaining the computer systems.

To be honest I have no idea why MINDEF are keen to take me in. Lack of manpower? But the people who called seemed so relaxed about it. Any ideas?

Also, for those who have worked as Software Engineers or worked in DXO... What do you think I should pick in terms of career direction? I understand DXO has better remuneration/benefits than ST Electronics Info-soft (Except for salary, correct me if wrong) but my fear is that if I leave DXO after two years of service I would be no better than an ORD-ed regular whose only exposure is to military stuff and therefore has no real-life outside working experience.

Lokey SG

Hi everyone,

This will be a somewhat long post where I elaborate about myself so you are clear of what is going on, in which you can then hopefully give your analysis and constructive opinions.

I'm currently a fresh graduate thinking about my career options. I graduated from NUS with a degree in Bachelor of Computing (Communications and Media), 2nd Class Honours (Upper).

To be honest I have no idea why MINDEF are keen to take me in. Lack of manpower? But the people who called seemed so relaxed about it. Any ideas?

Be a computer engineer at ST Electronics.

You probably stay there perm. As CE that is the high end pf the salaryscale you can get, as a fresh grad. The highest pay you can get compare to your peers.

If you are a programmer, you must start as a programmer. If you do anything else other than programming in your first 2 years, you can never be a programmer again.

Yeap, stay on the desk and type type type all day,

Shotgun SG

TS, I think the reason why MINDEF was so interested to hire you is because the salary they are offering is quite low for a 2nd Upper. For the record, I do personally know of people who entered some other stat boards with a Pass-merit and got 3.2k. If they want you, tell them to do better than that.

You need to ask yourself what you want to do as a career. Do you want to commit yourself in the IT sector or public service. And in my honest opinion, both are not the best choices although ST Electronics will give you the best "resume" buff. If you have time, search for other options especially in the private sector.

If you are really interested in public service, kudos to you, but there are others who will pay more for 2nd upper graduate.

Shotgun SG

dbl pst

Lokey SG

If you are really interested in public service, kudos to you, but there are others who will pay more for 2nd upper graduate.

It is not the pay. For programming job, we can just save, switch off and knock off. If it is other job, you cannot do that.

Besides regular programming is so easy to do nowadays.

Disappointed Slacker SG

Thanks for the replies. Actually the reason why I picked ST Electronics Info-Software Systems and MINDEF DXO is because I lost my patience after I went through 10+ interviews/aptitude tests and I got no job offers. This spans a period from December 2010 till now, where 9 other companies had responded to me. As for why, I am not entirely sure since I did prepare for interviews beforehand.

If anyone is still reading this...

The position that MINDEF wants to offer is that of a DX9 "rank". I doubt anyone here would know the specifics, but roughly what have any of you heard of the remuneration/salary of a DX9 with 2nd Uppers Honours? I checked online and there are conflicting accounts, ranging from $2700 to $4400. Those who served NS/has more experience get additional etc etc. Does that mean the remuneration for a DX9 is dependent not just on the grades of the fresh graduate, but also what the job does?

The primary role of this DX9 is to liaise with stakeholders regarding training activities and rectify problems encountered during training exercises (Coordinate timings, places of exercise, simulation problems, software bugs, etc). Basically, coordinating the military exercises. Secondary role is actually managing the technical development of the system when there are no exercises. The DX9 doesn't do the programming, only oversee the development by outsourced System Engineers.

After my enquries about the job functions, I was still left a little worried that in the near future I can't transfer these military exercises coordination/liasing experience over to project management. Be it whether you all have worked with/as DXOs of similar work before or that you had friends in there, what's your opinion? Are my fears unfounded?

I think people should feel free to share their relevant experiences (Without going into the classified details) at the military here so that computing graduates who are curious about a career in the military would be able to find the information readily.

Shotgun SG

DX9 is the typical starting bracket for fresh grad DXOs. Within that bracket is 9b, 9s, and 9p. I can't remember what the letters stand for but its "basic", "s-omething", and "principal." The higher the DX number, the higher the rank. To move from DX9 to DX10, you need to move from b to s, to p.

Since DX is a non-uniform grade system, its rough equivalent in the uniformed side is between that of 2LT to CPT. If I am not mistaken, they should be offering you a 9S entry position which makes you roughly equal to an LTA. Hence, your salary will be somewhat lower than the usual LTAs because you are non-uniformed. (Not sure how much LTAs are paid these days.)

With the primary role, I surmise its quite transferable but not in terms of technical skills. Its more of project management skills. If I were you, I'd consider building a portfolio for the projects you work on there if they are not classified and try to get a Project Manager certificaiton. If not, can always try for a certified IT PM (CITPM) cert. The only problem is that some of your projects may be confidential. =P

In anycase, the IT industry is very competitive here. That is why I left it and never looked back. And yes, I also considered moving to MINDEF before, and hence I was in the same position as you. Fortunately, I had more contacts there and was able to find out a little more.

Working as a DXO (or any civil service) is like working anywhere else except two things. Lots of red tapes and dead weights. Expect to write a lot more, especially emails to seek for approvals to do stuff, and pushing non-responsive people/departments. Not everybody will see things and prioritise things the same way as you do. Other departments or agencies may not consider what you think is important as important to them, hence they won't share your sense of urgency.

On the bright side, if you are not a go-getter, work can be quite relaxed if you don't mind getting screwed once in a while. Unless you are under probation, its hard to get rid of you. Unfortunately, you then join the ranks of the dead weights that slow everything down for others.

Finally, if you're thinking of getting a promotion every year or every other year, forget MINDEF. Promotions will not come quickly although you may still get merit increments. Rapid promotions are reserved for scholars. Hope this helps you think abit clearly.