Dual Citizenship Dilemma of a SG-UK man: Renounce & NS Issue

NW3 SG

Hello everyone,

I stumbled on to this forum whilst trawling the web for information relating to the topic title - an issue I'm now realising is a growing one. Hopefully I'll get some decent advice & not too much flaming/trolling.

Here's my situation. I'm 26, a Brit & government worker. I was born in London to my Singaporean father (no idea what my mum was then but she's from HK though she now has a Sing passport) & was given Singaporean citizenship apparently. I held my Brit one too & looking at my first passports my parents used them interchangeably up until 1988 after that it was only ever my Brit one. My family moved to Singapore before my 1st birthday & but by the time I was 3 I was back in the UK in Scotland. I've not been a resident in Singapore since then & I think I've only visited 2 or 3 times since then. I have very little contact with family from there since my parents split when I was 10 & I have grown up in the UK mainly. I was sent my Singaporean passport & citizenship certificate thing by my dad about 2 years ago & back then I remember reading it & the bit about oaths of allegiance or renunciation before my 22nd & thought nothing of it as I was already 24 & didn't really care about it to be blunt.

However there is a remote possibility if I get to certain branches of my current career I may find myself being part of a politician's entourage & I'd rather be a "can do" kind of guy & not have to say "Sorry boss can't go near Singapore". That & my brother who I'm quite close to, is working there now & I may miss him enough to visit some day! So I went along to the Singaporean Consulate here in London today & was told all sorts of scary sounding things like NS duties, arrests & mega-fines, then I was told to email the Mindef to start sorting things out.

I have never known much about Singapore besides the little history bits in Wikipedia :P But having googled search terms "NS, dual citizenship" I've built a pretty bleak picture with that story of the 3 Norwegian guys popping up & a whole lot of stuff about Singapore not recognising dual nationality - what are the chances of me being able visit without being in trouble?

Thanks in advance for reading,

NW3

Shorter ninja SG

Call DMG (Defence Management Group)

Tel- 6563733118

Fax-6562720540

Mail address- [email protected]

ThunderFbolt SG

or you could approach the local embassy.

http://www.mfa.gov.sg/london/

i think you would have a strong chance of just getting out of this situation easily, seeing how you've spent most of your life not in singapore.

eac SG

Refer to:

www.ica.gov.sg - Singapore's Immigration Department

www.mindef.gov.sg & www.ns.sg - Singapore's Defence Ministry

www.mfa.gov.sg - Singapore's Foreign Affairs Ministry

Rednano SG

past references

www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/344702

www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/315302

www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/169881

www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/160723

www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/395569

www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/348292

www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/185320

Shorter ninja SG

The contact numbers I gave him are manned by people who deal exactly with his kind of cases. and would best assist him.

Lokey SG

The question is, do you have a pink IC? Do you have a singapore NRIC no.? Do you recognised yourself as a Singaporean?

Personally, I think you are born in London and have a British citizenship. Your stand should be you are a British citizen. And Singapore is a country of visit which is no different from China, Malaysia and any other country.

Is there such a form to renounce Singapore citizenship? Just fill it up. It is an administration issue.

Hitman 2010 SG

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic46891.html&sid=a75f7762789d7dfaeeaad48a28ae2cf2

http://www.guidemesingapore.com/relocation/citizenship/renouncing-singapore-citizenship

http://www.stomp.com.sg/askst/singapore/397/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singaporean_nationality_law#Dual_citizenship

http://www.mfa.gov.sg/sanfrancisco/SGrenounce.html

NW3 SG

Thanks for the replies everybody. Instead of calling them I emailed the NS address first because I think it was some silly o'clock in SG at the time & have got some kind of reply from one of their staff & will now just wait for them to get in touch as they said they will.

@Lokey - No I don't have an identity card (thats IC right?) & have no clue what NRIC without resorting to a google search so am assuming I don't have that either. I have never seen myself as Singaporean - pretty much exactly as you described in your reply there.

Also I thought it was just a case of filling out a form but apparently not :/

Hope I don't end up having to meet my bro in Malaysia if I want to visit - not that there's anything wrong with Malaysia!

Shorter ninja SG

It is not in the constitution in many countries to say you cant have a dual citizenship so in SIngapore there is the NS thing to make sure you dont sit on the fence.Make arrangement to denounce the SIngapore Citizenship and go on with your life.....no need to cause the Singapore Goverment or yourself any more fuss.

Hitman 2010 SG

dump the sporean citizenship.not worth it really.high chance u wont even be able to come back to asia because of u dont wanna denounce yer sporean citizenship.make sure u get the paper in black n white and show them to spore airport officials and police there that u toasted n fried the sporean citizenship!

TrueSon SG

If you are between 13 and 16.5 years old:
You need to apply for an exit permit if you intend to travel or remain overseas for 3 months or longer. If you are remaining overseas for 2 years or longer, your parents/guardians will also need to furnish a bond, in the form of a Banker's Guarantee of S$75,000 or 50% of the combined annual gross income of both parents for the preceding year, whichever is higher.

If you are above 16.5 and have not enlisted for NS:
You need to apply for an exit permit if you intend to travel or remain overseas for 3 months or longer. Your parents/guardians will need to furnish a bond, in the form of a Banker's Guarantee of S$75,000 or 50% of the combined annual gross income of both parents for the preceding year, whichever is higher.

Those who require exit permit of 2 years or longer will be required to furnish a bond. This bonding requirement is similar to the current arrangement where security in the form of Banker's Guarantee must be furnished. The amount of the security bond is S$75,000 or 50% of the combined gross annual income of both parents for the preceding year, whichever is higher. The monetary bond requirement for male citizens who accompany their parents on overseas employment may be waived and they be bonded by deed with two sureties.

Why must MINDEF impose exit controls on NS-liable males?

Exit controls are necessary to ensure that NS-liable males who have gone overseas to study or reside at a young age return to fulfil their NS responsibilities.

Will young males aged 13 to 16.5 who fail to apply for an exit permit be sentenced to imprisonment?

The penalty for exit permit offences of young males aged 13 to 16.5 will be a fine of up to $2,000, with no custodial sentences. They will however be subjected to harsher penalties should they continue to breach of the Enlistment Act after age 16.5.

Males above 16.5 years who travel and remain overseas without applying for an exit permit would have committed an offence under the Enlistment Act. They will be liable upon conviction to a fine of up to $10,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years or both.

Hitman 2010 SG

Those who are liable to serve national service but refuse are charged under the Enlistment Act. If convicted, they face three years' imprisonment and a fine of S$10,000.

Controversy arose when the penalties were increased in January 2006 after Melvyn Tan, who was born in Singapore, received a fine for defaulting on his National Service obligations. Tan left for London to study music during his enlistment age and later acquired British nationality. In parliament, Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean provided some illustration of the punishments defaulters would face:

Each year, a small number of people are convicted for their failure to enlist or refusal to be conscripted. Most of them were Jehovah's Witnesses, who are usually court-martialled and sentenced to three years' imprisonment, but they are usually held in a low-security detention facility and separated from other conscription offenders. The government does not consider conscientious objection to be a legal reason for refusal to serve NS.

Junyang700 SG

excuse me, but you can learn better English writing in SIngapore.

reality.... our english writing is good... just that we cannot speak properly in public... maybe we are just not confident enough to speak angmoh...

TrueSon SG

reality.... our english writing is good... just that we cannot speak properly in public... maybe we are just not confident enough to speak angmoh...

A small tip: don't rush through what you have to say. Speak slowly and loudly.

Hitman 2010 SG

u cant speak english properly????then its as good as speaking yer mother tongue incorrectly too.

Junyang700 SG

A small tip: don't rush through what you have to say. Speak slowly and loudly.

i dunno if its part of our education system.. dun dare to speak up....

Hitman 2010 SG

me thinks its the food they eat.

look at spicy food countries indonsesia and malaysia.u rarely have a revolt cept once in like 50 years.

now goto countries like china or england or arab regions where the food is usually not really spicy or simply sour n less spicy.u gey more political revolts cuz food isnt that great satifying both mind n palette.

NW3 SG

excuse me, but you can learn better English writing in SIngapore.

Go around cyberspace fishing for bites much?

I'm new to this forum but am not new to forums bud.

Skusa SG

Whatever the consulate told u is correct. If u did not serve NS at the appropriate age then u have broken the law. Unless u want to return to Singapore to serve NS, then just dont bother trying to visit the country cos technically u r still a Singaporean regardless of ur UK passport. In Singapore, obtaining another citizenship does not automatically make u a non Singaporean, U must go in to ICA to renounce ur SIngapore citizenship. Otherwise the Singapore govt treats u as a Singaporean and disregards ur UK citizenship. If u step into Singapore and something happens to u, the UK govt can help. Take this matter very seriously and dont even try to step into SIngapore no matter what u read on the web cos u already passed the age to renounce ur citizenship and u did not, so technically u failed to report for ur NS obligation when u should have and u will be on radar wanted list.