ORD: Rank = Recruit / Private as Reservist NSman ?

last SG · 2010-03-13T22:53:42+00:00

Yes, it is childish, and it's a perfectly appropriately childish response to a loser who's so childish as to make up stories about himself to make up for his...

Gedanken SG

If u are an employer, how would you react if u realise tat potential job seeker is a rec? will u trust his working capability or like wat many ppl say, rank doesnt matter and u wont give a damn about it?

I've never had such a pitiful applicant cross my path before, but if I had I wouldn't even waste my time pointing him towards the door. Let's face it - how difficult is it to pass BMT? If a guy doesn't have the capability to do something so basic, he's useless to me. If he does have the capability and has simply not done it because he's too childish to deal with something he doesn't like for a mere three months, he's worse than useless.

Pablo SG

Personally, I feel that it is damn difficult to fail BMT. If someone cannot pass BMT unless due permanent downgrade after 2 years, something is very wrong...

Fatum SG

I say it is irrelevant because I am a CPL, Pes C9L2 fellow, so I dont need to chao keng? I am already happy with 8 to 5 vocation, at the HQ. I dont think, I need to ask for more?

I can make such a claim because I know several personnels under my charge who are like this. Rec/Private and yet they are having big business outside.

1. A private bus company owner

2. Some leather company owner

3. A computer engineer

4. A restaurant owner

5. Violinist!!??

and more...

Rec/Private are the extremist they are rare breed now. But usually they are injured and yet not downgraded permanently.

When a personnel is trained, he will be given a vocational rank which is at less a LCP.

But the Rec/Private case, can only happen when he is injured during BMT, get a temp status, but upgrades later on, but still OOC. In that case, at the end still he does not have a vocation, working as a TSS.

how does a computer engineer or a violinist translate to big bosses ?

But nevermind, that aside, you claimed that these people keng'ed and therefore, they are successful, that they are "smartest" (sic)

fine .... my question is still ... especially now that you've reveiled yourself to be a C9L2 corporal, did you follow their example and made something out of your life ? After all, you claimed that they keng'ed and got slack vocations and 8-5 jobs during NS with a lot of time for themselves and therefore, they were successful.

Hey ! you had exactly all that too ! Slack 8-5 vocation at HQ and all ...... all that without having to keng !

Were you then, smart enough to follow their example and make something out of you own life ? Or is kenging a neccessary ingredient, and you were too stupid to do that ?

youyayu SG

Those who are able to keng the max and be a rec even after ORD is the smartest

From my experiences, those who are recruit or private, are usually the big bosses outside. When I ask them, why?/what happen? Their replies are, WHAT SAF HAVE GIVEN you to make you work so hard for them? Why should you listen to some1 who is just one year older and have a bar on his shoulder? The diver/commando chong so hard at the end, only ended up with injuries that companied them for life.

Think about this, people who have not passed out from BMT, are not vocational-trained, in another words, they normally ended up as clerk or storemen = non-combat vocation. They book out everyday, no guards duties, the free time that they have after office hours can be used for enjoyment, doing part-time....Even after they ORD, they are "useless" in the SAF, therefore their reservists are also not so siong.

If you are able think or long term and have foresight you know that how you act will today will affect the future.

Besides, employer dont look at military rank when they employed people. So what if he is a officer in the army, it does not implies he have good EQ to lead people in the outside world. Besides, for people who have completed Bachelor, Master, Phd, NS is an jail term that they have done 5 to 10 years ago.

haha....

Gedanken SG

how does a computer engineer or a violinist translate to big bosses ?

But nevermind, that aside, you claimed that these people keng'ed and therefore, they are successful, that they are "smartest" (sic)

Hey ! you had exactly all that too ! Slack 8-5 vocation at HQ and all ...... all that without having to keng !

Were you then, smart enough to follow their example and make something out of you own life ? Or is kenging a neccessary ingredient, and you were too stupid to do that ?

I wouldn't waste the effort, Fatum. This dipshit lives in a whacked-out fantasy land where good shit happens simply by his wishing it. He's his own fairy godmother.

Francis Yap SG

well, after reading all these posts, i got a point to make. I am not sure whether the people here are against lokey personally (you all seems to have something against him from the posts you all made),or you all are simply looking down on those guys with no rank. I had always thought that rank only matters in the force. It is very important to regulars but not as much to the NSFs since everybody serves for 2yrs and will F off. Don't tell me because you were an officer/ spec during NS and your boss (in civilian world of course!) were not, you can use your rank on him and said things like, I am LTA(NS) or 3SG(NS), you (the boss) are a LCP(NS) and so I shouldnt be listening to you etc.. Doesn't make sense right?

anyway,don't ever think that people with no rank won't make it far in life. Just to share with you all, due to my job requirements, i have to interact with NSmen. There have been instances whereby the OC or PC of a company or platoon turns out to be the subordinates of people of lower ranks like drivers or medics. Lol. You will be surprised at the civilian pay some of these service support personnels draw as compared to combat officers/specs. From my interactions with these guys, they take a special view towards NS which (I think) may be indirectly contributing to their success (measured in terms of earning power) in future life. These people are the ultimate kengster and they actually got what they wanted by 'thinking out of the box' and coming up with ways to fight the system so as to achieve what they wanted. When it comes to working in civilian world, these people adopted a pretty similar strategy and some of them actually became very successful because of this. Wheras for officers/specs, from my interactions with some of them, the reason they gave me for wanting to become spec/officer is because of honour,glory,wanting to do themselves and family proud, wanting to build up their leadership quality etc. This is pretty similar to what I have always heard when I was a recruit in tekong. Seems like these people have been totally brainwashed. By chance, sometimes I would discuss politics with them and they would be the same ppl who will praise our almighty govt and say how lucky and fortunate we were for being able to reside here etc. They got all these ideas from their many years of formal education, mainstream media and of course, the notorious social studies subject. Lol.

For ppl who can be so easily swayed and manipulated, I wonder how can they become a leader in the first place. Maybe because SAF is a military organisation and due to operational requirements, everybody must be a yes-man and follow instructions passed down from higher levels, that's why traits like 'thinking out of the box' and 'being different' is always frowned upon. Wheras those who can take and execute instructions swiftly and accurately are deemed to have leadership quality (in military sense) and that's why they are selected for command school. But is this the type of 'leadership quality' that will allows one to be successful in life? I personally feel that one can thrives with this quality if he was working in a large company as a lower/middle management personnel, but not so for the top job, that's why these tops jobs are taken up by the people whom they have despised during NS time - those who dares to be different and has the ability to think out of box.

I guess it's because of this reason that's y anomaly is sometimes observed in the pays of NSmen. ie, lower ranking personnel earning higher pay when they are supposedly lacking in leadership material..

Fatum SG

well, you got it right and wrong.

You're right, it's really about lokey the chap ...and you're wrong, it's really not about rank at all. There are plenty of good men who didn't get a lot of pangkat due to injuries or some other factors beyond their own doing.

It's really about kenging.

Whatever one thinks about NS, this is something that every male has to go through, that means that even if you hate it, that doesn't mean the other fellows in your unit like it any more than you do.

In the civvy world if you're a lazy slacker the boss can simply fire you and hire someone more hardworking. In NS he can only send you to DB but he'll still be one man short. He's got to work with what he's got and cannot hire extra help at whim. Thus it means that if you keng and skiv out of your duties, he'd have to push your stuff onto someone else's plate. All of your colleagues and maybe even your superiors would have to cover your responsibilities and duties for you. That makes you a farktard and a target of hate in the eyes of your colleagues, regardless of what they themselves feel about NS.

Why should they have to do your shit for you, especially when they are unwilling and involuntary participants in this whole scheme too ? That's why blanket parties happen, and that's why kengsters don't have a lot of fans in the army.

And since from your post it appears you advocate kenging in NS, just like lokey here ..... perhaps you'd like to answer the same questions that's been posed to lokey too .... Did you yourself chao keng ? What rank were you ? And what have you made out of your own life since ? ..........

Francis Yap SG

well. rest assured that i din keng at all. i orded very recently and my superiors were very happy with my work performance. I got outstanding for both my conduct and performance and was given a good testimonial. I agreed completely with u that ppl who kenged are a pain in the ass. I have personally kanna shit from them as a result of their irresponsible and selfish behaviour. they are surely disliked by everybody,

if u read carefully in my post, i had never stated that i supported ppl who kenged. in addition, one must realise tat kenging may or may not affect ur colleagues and superiors at all. for eg, if in a lull period where one really does nothing and just talk cock and sing song everyday, i don't see how others will be affected should one guy decided to take mc and settles some personal stuffs. however, if the welfare of rest of his colleagues will be affected through his action, then doing so will be highly irresponsible and definitely l'll not do that. Tat's y i always make use of this 'peer pressure' on my guys in the hope that they will behave. But there will always be shamless one who does not give a damn to the rest of his peers. I will use a different approach on this type of guy then.

Going back to Fatum's original point,you were basically talking abt how kenging would affect other ppl like ur superiors and peers, on this part i agree with you. However, in the case which i mentioned previously (abt drivers/ clerks and non combat medics 'kenging' and being very successful in civilian life), their kenging is not the type which we typically encounters like doing shit left behind by other lazy bastards. They keng so as to get into slacker vocation. How does this affect other people? Or is Fatum trying to tell me by doing that, the driver/clerks/medics is depriving SAF of a precious combat soldier and thus, CPC will have a headache when it it comes to the allocation of manpower? Anyway,just to let u know in case u are unaware,there has been quite a number of cases where PES AB guys being posted to as medics/drivers/storemen etc. Dun think there's rly a lack of combat soldiers such tat 1 guy kenging into service support vocation is gonna create troule for CPC..and just to add on, you must not simply assume that ppl who keng into slacker vocation= they will keng in their job! As if those who din manage to keng out of their vocations they disliked will be on in their job. Lol. Hope u can see the link. The guys (lower rank NSmen driver,medics,clerks) whom made it good in life also possess considerable EQ. They may dislike their job but they wont sabo their frens for extra work.In conclusion,superiors usually think highly of them cos they dun create trouble as they usually understand the importance of mutual respect and mutually beneficial relationship. In essence,they does the bare minimum (wayang) and yet superiors think highly of them. They do keng but they only do it to benefit themselves and not to bring abt inconvenience to others (superiors and peers). These are the ppl who are well liked by ppl, live good life and more rest days. These are the really 'smart' ppl whom I said that will eventually gets the top position. Hope u can see my point!

Gedanken SG

All nice and good, Francis, but you've been talking about the wrong kind of person.

Taking it all the way back to the original post in this thread, the topic of discussion is someone who had ORDd with a rank of recruit, owing to the fact that he has not completed BMT.

The original question in this post is: from an employer's perspective, do you think that such a record reflects the person's "working capability" (sic). I'm working upon the understanding here that capability encompasses both attitude and skills.

On this point I reiterate:

1) If someone genuinely can't complete something as easy as BMT there's little chance of him performing well at more complex jobs
2) If someone decided to go through two years as a recruit becaue he couldn't be bothered completing something as easy as BMT, he's worse than useless - he's a liability

Anything beyond the above is simply tangential.

Now, as for Lokey. Yeah, it's a "the idiot's opened his big mouth once again so we'll pillory him once again session". You're obviously new to these parts, but you'll soon find out that Lokey's a self-aggrandising loser with delusions of adequacy, and he makes up plenty of absurd stories to justify his shortcomings.

Vis-a-vis a shortage of combat soldiers, the Commandos now take in recruits with glasses, while back in the old days that was an absolute no-go. What does that tell you about the manpower situation?

"Out of the box" thinking is generally and falsely taken to be a good thing. It can have some advantages, but if you as an employer don't keep it from running rampant, it could cause you some serious headaches from your subordinates.

Lokey SG

All nice and good, Francis, but you've been talking about the wrong kind of person.

Taking it all the way back to the original post in this thread, the topic of discussion is someone who had ORDd with a rank of recruit, owing to the fact that he has not completed BMT.

On this point I reiterate:

Anything beyond the above is simply tangential.

Vis-a-vis a shortage of combat soldiers, the Commandos now take in recruits with glasses, while back in the old days that was an absolute no-go. What does that tell you about the manpower situation?

Yah. yah. Doing a personal insults against me, without knowing anything at all. Assuming that you are all the best, Gandanken. Good job!

All I know, is that, my lab tech under me is an officer, S2? in the SAF, a poly grad, struggling his way to complete his part-time degree now. I am letting him to do some study during office hours, since I dont have much work for him also.

I and my supervisor are CPL from the same NS unit.

So from my experiences relating to TS post,

I don't look at the SAF ranking and vocation when I pick my men, because it will be bias against the ladies. It is difficult to conclude anything as what they do in their NS life is perhaps 5 years ago, which is not too relevant to current times. My main concern will be how often and long will he on reservist training, and who is going to cover his responsibilities when he is away.

SBS2601D SG

All nice and good, Francis, but you've been talking about the wrong kind of person.

Taking it all the way back to the original post in this thread, the topic of discussion is someone who had ORDd with a rank of recruit, owing to the fact that he has not completed BMT.

On this point I reiterate:

Anything beyond the above is simply tangential.

Vis-a-vis a shortage of combat soldiers, the Commandos now take in recruits with glasses, while back in the old days that was an absolute no-go. What does that tell you about the manpower situation?

For the commando part, the pressure comes both ways, lack of manpower, and lack of non-speckys.

noahnoah SG

Rank?

Who cares about it?

When come to reservist

all have to work together

ever saw two bar officer dig trench

with Man?

thats wat being respected as a real officer!!

Lokey SG

That is a long post. When we enter NS at 18, 19 and 20, we are just kids. How can you judge a person ability with just a two years contribution? Besides, not every1 is interested to run, sweat and dirty.

For me, anything that got to do with earning $$$ interests me with minimum intellect and physical effort, other than that, it is none of my business and concern.

The most important thing, I HATE people telling me, what I have to do.

Fatum SG

lol .... I think you're confused ...

so .... do you suppose those "successful" chaps you mentioned .... made it from your version of kenging, as you put it .... or they made it because of their "considerable EQ" ? (SICs)

Do you mean if you keng you'll be successful ? Or that if you have high EQ you'll be successful ? That you'll be successful if you have high EQ ? If you have high EQ you'll keng ? Do all kengsters have high EQ ? Do all those with high EQs keng ? And those who have high EQ but don't keng won't make it ?

chew on these slowly now, don't choke ... and rethink slowly as to really why some people made it and some don't ?

But here's a slightly different question for you then. You yourself said, most assuredly, you did not keng during NS ... so now that you've just ORD'ed ..... what are you expectations of your own future .... since you seem to have the impression that kengsters are more successful .... but unfortunately .... you did not keng ?

Spartans SG

One fact one must recognise is that there are people who process absolute different attitudes towards NSF and career.

They may 'keng' their way through NSF whilst strive their best for their own career. Called it 'self interest over national interest or whatever'.

But of course there are some who are just absolute slackers in their whole life.

Francis Yap SG

haha. i am getting confused? I guess you are the one getting confused and not really understanding the point i am trying to make. Maybe my writing skill has deteriorated over the two years that's why Fatum can't understand what I am trying to say? Or he himself has problem grasping complicated (while i thought it's simple enough for everybody) ideas? If that was the case I would not have bothered explaining to you and should have let you believed that wat you said was fully acceptable to me. That way you might have felt accomplished that at least you did not have problems understanding wat others were trying to tell u and others understood wat u wrote.haha.

Fatum has a really simplistic outlook towards life. correlation doesnt mean causation okay. To make it simple for you, If two events A & B happened together, it does not necessarily means that A causes B or B causes A. You should have learned this in pri school right? Don't tell me you need to relearn pri school concepts?

I mentioned that SOME people who kenged into slacker vocation possess considerable EQ that allows them to be successful in life. Which idiot will go and assume that because of this statement made, i presume that ALL people who keng MUST have high EQ and because they keng they MUST have high EQ, they MUST be successful in life? OMG. Such a simplistic outlook towards life. Fatum, doesn't mean if a thing is not black,it must be white,vice versa. OMG. Can i know how old are you? Maybe you havent been to pri school yet. Sorry, if i sounds very offensive. I din mean to. But just that i don't expect normal adults to think in this manner. The post I am trying to make is trying to show u the 'grey' side of the world. Must try to step out from your strictly black and white world okay?

Seems like you are interested to find out wat everybody did during their NS. Wat was their rank etc. But i dun see you sharing yours? But i admit that officers GENERALLY (note to fatum, not all okay. it's not a strictly black and white world :D) takes more pride in their work and they don't blatantly keng as much as certain lower ranking guys. of course,the smarter one will still go for the 2nd form of higher level kenging, ie benefitting oneself and not inconveniencing others.Fatum, do u have problems understanding? OMG. I dont think so cos ur brain has already been conditioned to believe tat ppl keng=bad for me=more work for me so all ppl who keng=irresponsible ppl= wont make it far in life=failure. wah. i summarise ur thought in a single equation man. lol. were u the hardworking one who nvr took any chance to slack and decided to be the target board for everybody and so u hate kengster so much? I pity u then. If i was ur Pc i would have taken additional care to ensure ppl like u wont get makan by other smarter ppl. weaklings need to be protected. Ur pc din do a gd in protecting u!

Anyway,i am a LTA who just orded. waiting to start school in an oversea uni. lol. hope tat satisfy fatum's query. Fatum, wat abt u ? Can show us how a fantastic soldier who nvr (or lack the ability? lol) siam and willingly do all the shits fares in real life? Are u a CEO of a MNC now doing all the works in the MNC?lol.the sole employee and thus the CEO? haha

Lokey SG

Relax... Francis.... There is no need to take the forumers seriously as this is a R&R session. I understand your view point. Since u just ORD, I assume that you should understand how one can ORD as a Rec/Private. Care to share with the ignorants..

Lokey SG

One fact one must recognise is that there are people who process absolute different attitudes towards NSF and career.

They may 'keng' their way through NSF whilst strive their best for their own career. Called it 'self interest over national interest or whatever'.

But of course there are some who are just absolute slackers in their whole life.

hehehe, slackers and kengsters are different you know.

Kengsters are knowing that tomolo is going outfield for 1 week, but he decides to report sick on the day before, getting the MC resting in the bunk for 1 week instead. But of course, weak people like me, easily fall sick almost instantly when I forget cover myself with blanket properly. (this is the truth: I really have been sick since the haze show up a few months ago and have been sicky since then. cough. cough. cough)

SBS2601D SG

I'm sorry, but people who siam = hopeless.

My buddy told me this when he helped me when he should be sleeping preparing for the next drill: If I don't help you, who would?

Corny as it sounds, it stuck to me even till today.

What weaklings?? *snorts*

Gedanken SG

How come you are supervising lab techs now when a few months ago you said you in the middle of your PhD?

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

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