Unjust: Abuse of Military Rank & Authority

dkcx SG

This thread has proven one salient point.

NS does have a role in integrating different classes of people in a society. Without it, individuals might have even less understanding and knowledge of people outside their own comfort zone.

Corporate world mirrors the military in that sense, you're forced to work with diverse individuals and it's up to you to find a common ground where everyone can get along and thrive.

In the military, constant harping about one's educational status is a surefire way to lose friends and make enemies. Respect is garnered through how you can respect others and not let them down in a team environment. Don't nitpick on whether you are brainier than the chap beside you.

Book smarts don't count for everything, that goes for the concrete jungle too.

I will agree with that.

However are still a decent number of teenagers who thinks that such things only happens in NS where they are stuck but once they go out to work, they can quit anytime they are unhappy. However most do not consider that there are only that many times u can quit a job and no boss will hire a frequent quitter who cannot offer a good explaination about his reasons for job hoping so often.

LazerLordz SG

I will agree with that.

It might be argued that one's attitude in a military setting usually more or less reflects his work ethic (under similar pressure and impending deadlines) in his future corporate career.

Teenagers.. heh. They'll learn that one doesn't quit on a whim and fancy, not when paychecks in an uncertain world is concerned ;)

dkcx SG

It might be argued that one's attitude in a military setting usually more or less reflects his work ethic (under similar pressure and impending deadlines) in his future corporate career.

Teenagers.. heh. They'll learn that one doesn't quit on a whim and fancy, not when paychecks in an uncertain world is concerned ;)

Alot of them do not understand the difficulties of getting a job and just think that they can switch anytime they want if they are unhappy without regards to contracts, terms and conditions they have to abide by when they are in a workplace.

nakkk SG

hai i think in the end, it boils down to the mentality one wants to adopt. I mean he does have his probelms, being injured n all, but as we all know, its difficult for the commander to know whether he keng or not, i m sure all of us kena before the time that you were really injured n our instructors ask us to carry on with training. so lets give it to him thats hes unwell shldnt we? but then again, ts maybe u gotta review ur mindset. Being a JC student is nuthing in army, serious, i was frm JC too, posted to 35 sce, where all my guys were mono-intake. i mean since we are in there with all of them, den y care whetehr u read more books or what? be like them, u ll come to know that they are great people too, they are really no less than us, but only if you try to talk to them, talk their way, use ur hokkien or teochew or watever you know, seriously, just forget that u r frm JC and be one of tehm, u ll enjoy ur stay in army ! at least i did! so cummon, try to make the best of ur situatuion!

weymas SG

yea true true. TS should really start learning how to get along with others. not only in NS, next time when you go to uni or into the workforce, you need to get along with your peers/colleagues, even though they might be very different from you.

NS is a training ground for you to mature and grow up, as well as develop team-playing and team-leading abilities.

Lokey SG

hai i think in the end, it boils down to the mentality one wants to adopt. I mean he does have his probelms, being injured n all, but as we all know, its difficult for the commander to know whether he keng or not, i m sure all of us kena before the time that you were really injured n our instructors ask us to carry on with training. so lets give it to him thats hes unwell shldnt we? but then again, ts maybe u gotta review ur mindset. Being a JC student is nuthing in army, serious, i was frm JC too, posted to 35 sce, where all my guys were mono-intake. i mean since we are in there with all of them, den y care whetehr u read more books or what? be like them, u ll come to know that they are great people too, they are really no less than us, but only if you try to talk to them, talk their way, use ur hokkien or teochew or watever you know, seriously, just forget that u r frm JC and be one of tehm, u ll enjoy ur stay in army ! at least i did! so cummon, try to make the best of ur situatuion!

I think you all really don't know. This guy is a medic in a unit loh.

This is our mission:

To provide excellent and comprehensive health care for our soldiers, protect their health and optimise their combat performance in order to enhance the SAF's operational edge.

We have a duty and medical responsibility cover to do. We have the right to interrupt training, when we observe a man is unwell, and let the SGT decide whether he want to ask the man to fall out. Even in the bunk at night, we can send man to medical center (after informing the SGT of Course). If he himself is having a status, he have the right to exercise the authority on himself. That is his job. And he is acting like a innocent recruit. He can ask the SGT that he need to fall out, and he don't even need a MC or status. Because he is a medic himself!!. If he is the person doing the job and he cannot do the job, it is a failure.

A medic is a healthcare support for the unit. He has his duty and a lot of SOP for him to follow. He has many bosses. If he is treated badly, he should complain to the senior medic or the medical officer. Nobody (especially the regulars) dare to bully the medic, and is treated with respect, because he is one who treat them when need.

Even he is given light duties, he has a job in the training session, that is to do medical cover, I dont know why he is asked to join in the training.

If he is really bullied or treated unfairly, then he should reflect his status to the top management. As this will compromised his medical duties in the unit, and hence affect the SAF operational performances.

Regardless of the rank, no one has no right to overright duty right of the medic. Else anything does wrong, there will be lawsuit. On the other hand, a medic exercises his skill and rights wrongly, he will be in deep trouble also.

schi_zo SG

I think you all really don't know. This guy is a medic in a unit loh.

This is our mission:

To provide excellent and comprehensive health care for our soldiers, protect their health and optimise their combat performance in order to enhance the SAF's operational edge.

Even he is given light duties, he has a job in the training session, that is to do medical cover, I dont know why he is asked to join in the training.

My company has a down pes medic so he is always in charge of medical coverage for ALL activities. My OC and CSM warned us to not have 2 medics covering, reason being : no reason, they just dont like it. So if i am not covering, and im injured or on status, i tell my ps, i cannot participate. Reply from PS: FUCK YOU JOIN IN. I don't know about you Lokey but my unit needs status for every injury, no status no talk you know? If i tell my PS medic don't need status if i'm not well and can just fall out, he will tell me : MEDIC BIG FUCK? WHAT DON'T NEED STATUS, YOU WANT TO CK IS IT?

I tried to offer to do the medical cover together with the down pes medic. CSM : FUCK YOU JOIN IN.

My unit mentality is status = chao keng, no exceptions unless injury is visibly seen.

My platoon mentality is that if i don't participate in ANY activity or any saikang i not around = chao keng. Dont say exercises or training, even when i have to do my medical centre duty, my platoon sneers at me saying im off to slack and chao keng.

And Lokey, i am glad that your unit respect your vocation, you are a medic if i am not wrong. My unit doesn't, or at least my platoon tells me medics are slackers, fucking useless pieces of shit, and they dont need me to save them. Argue much?

Complain? If you read my earlier posts, i already sought help from my MO and it did not work out. And the regulars in my company despise medics because they think we are the most slack vocation in the company and always push the saikang to us.

And your thinking that anything gone wrong will result in a lawsuit, if thats really the case, the newspapers would be flooded with such. Ever heard of cover-up?

Lastly, I am really happy that your unit places high importance in medics, I do hope that that respect would be recognised in every unit in the future.

Lokey SG

I tried to offer to do the medical cover together with the down pes medic. CSM : FUCK YOU JOIN IN.

My unit mentality is status = chao keng, no exceptions unless injury is visibly seen.

And your thinking that anything gone wrong will result in a lawsuit, if thats really the case, the newspapers would be flooded with such. Ever heard of cover-up?

Lastly, I am really happy that your unit places high importance in medics, I do hope that that respect would be recognised in every unit in the future.

Crap!

Then just go and get a status. Go to the medical centre and get a status.

What medical problem do you exactly has?

schi_zo SG

I have a back injury for quite some time already, but getting status makes me the target for more arrows, from my PS.

Lokey SG

I have a back injury for quite some time already, but getting status makes me the target for more arrows, from my PS.

Tell your PS, you are regular, I am not. I want to ORD in one piece and one peace.

If you need to see specialists, see lah. Ask for refer letter, need to downgrade, and to post out.

I seriously dont know what is your problem.

If your company say he dont want a medic in the company, the top management can arrange whatever necessary. We will all be very happy.

Ask whoever in charge of you to post you out.

I think if the company does not think medic is necessary in the unit. Then we can always arrange for the PC and PS to go for medical course and let them double his role. There is a shortage in the manpower anyway. All the mo will be dammed happy if the medical corps get outsource to private medical healthcare group.

Lokey SG

Medic is an important person in the unit, and he has a task to peform. He is a actually additional support for the company/unit but he is not part of the unit. He is always the outsider, more like an attachment to the unit.

If the company thinks a medic is not necessary, reflect this to the top managment, we can always withdrawn our manpower from the company, if it is viewed as reductancy.

The regulars should be more clear of that.

Something is wrong somewhere. Very Weird. Are you thinking too much!?! I feel that you are being oversenstitive.

MPS_Angels SG

NS is a training ground for you to mature and grow up, as well as develop team-playing and team-leading abilities.

Agree on "should really start learning how to get along with others" especially on "even though they might be very different from you", every where you go whether working or studying you will meet different people and you can't make everyone think like you do.... However regarding "NS is a training ground for you to mature and grow up, as well as develop team-playing and team-leading abilities." ....even though I am a girl... and never been to NS, however due to my working environment I have worked with NS men to LTC etc then managers/executives....especially NS men...its true that having NS is a training ground that helps to toughen our guys...however there are some who have very bad attitudes and does not feel that doing NS is anything at all....Fact is after NS you will be out of the environment...whatever that happens during that time whether you have been trained an officer or not does not seem to make very much difference...I have 2 friends both are officer who went for OCS and then after NS they both end up in different league....one is a successful manager, the other one is still not up to being a leader in the office environment..... It all boils down to attitude I guess...how you view the situation...with great attitude, you will shine in where ever you go...why fight for something and die die must win? Sometimes its better to let others win, sit back, relax and enjoy the harmony....

Lokey SG

My friend (fcuking regular) say:

If u have any problem just reflect back to the officer, unlike BMT, they always put operation need in mind as first priority. Talk to your officer, he is trained to know what to, but don't order him to do things, advice. speak nicely.

Ask for post out if you feel unfit for your vocation. You have medical record in the system and information can be easy traced. To post you out, it is dammed easy, especially with valid reason.

If company already has one medic in hand and does not need another medic, it is understandable as they need a combat medic that is fit enough to chong with them at the front line. Actually they are more concern if the c.medic is tough enough, to stay at the front line (not about you as an individual).

My friend think that c.medic is essential as they have their own responsibility in the outfield. Manpower issue can be arranged.

As I have mentioned before, NS is just 2 years, health come in as number 1 priority. I will not bother about anything else as disabilities are the only thing that carry with you after you ORD.

Everything in SAF can be arranged it is very flexible. There is always a fitting position somewhere, whether it is admin, hq or DB... hehehe

All the top management are JC people and scholars, they can understand you better, and more likely to be intelligent enough to solve this problem, this is a minor issue. Trust them. Most of friends are very capable and they are know their stuff (At least they seems so.)

Pentaxdude90 SG

To those who had a fun time blasting at TS:

Clearly the TS is in distress, and yet you bastards here can do is to fire at TS with inflammatory and unconstructive remarks (ie. wimp, loser, pussy) to make him feel worse. That's extremely mean, and it speaks volume about how unsympathetic and loser-ish you're as a person, really. Come on, who are you to comment on how resilient he is, when you didn't even go through that crap he's going through? Even if you did, congratulations for being such a good thumb-sucker, but that doesn't put you on some higher moral grounds to lambast at others. TS didn't even say that because he is from JC, therefore he deserves better treatment than the others. He was merely stating facts, that he's from JC and the others aren't. You drew your own screwed-up conclusions (TS is from JC, hence he's proud, arrogant, etc) . Are you all envious that you can't enter JC in the first place?

LazerLordz SG

JC isn't a big deal for most of the people here. It's ancient history to most of us.

loki_chaos SG

Dear TS,

I can understand your difficulty in your situation. After briefly browsing through all 6pages of your thread, I can jolly well say some are quite good suggestions for your problems. I am also from a mono-intake unit, armour too.

Since I work in S1 Branch in my unit, I suggest that you can also refer your problem to your unit's S1, since they are supposed to be paracounsellors in the camp too. The reason why I suggested this is because at least he's a neutral party to understand the situation that you are in so that there won't be unfairness in helping you out.

As for being listed as "chao-keng" or other bad names, I think that it's unavoidable in NS. What I mean is that people go through the training, but there you are, going out of camp but not because you want to, is because you need to. But they just don't understand it. They're just jealous. Put yourselves in their shoes; assuming that you're a stay-in personnel, you see your friend go out of camp, can see the world, the girls, etc. you wished that you also can get to go out.

For a period of time, I myself also had some issue with this. I was responsible for the Battalion's newsletter. My S1 allowed me to 'work from home' as I needed to use Photoshop CS3. So there was some dissatisfaction within my signal platoon that I was going out quite often. But they don't know that what I'm doing is actually official work; not going out and have fun.

After the newsletter was finalized, there was even more out-detail. I had to go back and forth to Pasir Laba Camp, to the SAF Printing Centre. It just got worse. But everything settled in when the newsletter came out officially.

The next time you're forced to do training, take out your status slip. To me, I think it's like a Tramp Card. And even if your PS still insist just mention to him that 'you'll bear all the responsibilities if anything happens to me. I'll make sure that your career will be gone. It's not a threat, it's a promise.'

insidestory SG

Hi people, i've have read through the previous posts, and just want to clarify that, why i stated i am from jc and they are from ITE is because they treated me differently from where i study. I just dont wan to join them in their daily practices of smoking, playing psp etc. Im sorry but i dont really enjoy in doing all those.. What they always want to talk about is sex? clubbing? their gang out of camp? i mean it isnt in my interest at all. My lack of concern for their interests seems to start their bad attitudes towards me. There are worse and even higher degree of unfairness, but i do not want to spell it all out, i don't want to risk getting recognised...

Me being the only JC guy, and my difference in interests, gets me bullied. So here is the question, you guys keep saying I am arrogant and snobbish because im from jc. So should i change my personality to adapt to their interests? Should i degrade myself and pretending to be someone, to please them?

About my PS, he is obviously against me, i can see his attitude against me and the others are like heaven and hell. I reiterate again, he dislike me because I am on status for injury and i am a stayout when im posted into this unit. I dont know why but i think he feels that i am just a lowly man i should not deserve priviledges like stay out like him as he is a regular. I even heard from the pes c admin people, that in the office he even called me a dog, when i cancelled my status because i wanted to keep a low profile, he said the dog is very 乖. Of course i confront him also useless, he can just deny it, the witness also wont stand by my side to oppose the PS.

Worse thing is my PS even spoke bad things about me behind my back. How i know? Everytime i am walking alone to anywhere and i see a commander, he will point at me and whisper to his friend. I walk closer and i hear ' he come already, he come already, don't say liao later he hear.'

Can understand how i live my life at camp everyday?

Of course i already said, they even try to make use of me, as im a medic, they thought i could play the system by 'giving' them a 'fever' on the report sick slip. If i don't? well you can guess what they do.

Well, im just sick and tired of NS. Sorry for being weak..or pussy-like.

What i did till now was see a private specialist/psychiatrist for this and I feel better now after consultation and medication. Now, because i endorsed my mc to my MO, he told my OC straight away, and my OC thinks i am trying to chao keng by kenging mad. He wants to send me to MMI and hopefully send me to IMH, and last, hopefully get a record for having P case which will hinder my job opportunities in the future.

Wonderful thing is my MO is a NSF and is giving out his 100% to help my OC, really unbelievable stuff. Can't believe the relationship between a medic and MO really is that small and insignificant..

Yeah I understand what you feel totally, although I've had the blessing not to have personally undergone it. Its very common. its called group bully and is further fuelled by their inferiority complex. note that such people normally have very fragile egos. They know that they're crappier in life than you, or at least feel that way, it hurts them and when a rare opportunity like this presents itself, that of a specimen that represents whom they resent, and the specimen suay suay is alone, then of cos they lynch and mob. this is human psychology at work.

Someone i know who went to poly from a top secondary single-sex school also reported the same experience of being mobbed by the bengs and lians there LOL.

Oh by the way which JC were you from? If from RJ or HC, yes confirmed it's a dire situation and they're out to lynch you, although what the bullies don't know is that 99% of those who go to RC or HCI will also end up as farmers like them! No different! Once they master this truth, maybe they will be less insecure. If you're from a school like Pioneer, Jurong or Serangoon JC then there really isn't much difference between you and them. Tell them to wake the F up and go F each other.

Is your OC a farmer too? Most likely. You must be in 2SIR. There's an OC there who's dumber than a one-cell organism. He regularly gets lost in the jungle and is a regular butt of jokes and always gets mocked endlessly by his men. This farmer OC is so stupid that during missions, he always gets outsmarted by his men who would purposely lead him to make detours like a fucking fool when he's supposed to be the commander leading the boys. Each time after they make a fool of him, the boys would gleefully relate the tale to the CSM whom they're close to. If you had been one batch earlier, you would have counted yourself blessed under great leadership by the dumb shit's predecessor, a friend of mine, a SAFOS who posted out to go to policy office (DPO) in Mindef late last year, that after he posted out even his men and foot soldiers made proclamations in cyberspace and on his facebook that they miss him.

But if you had gone to my friend, he would have empathised with you but made a leadership decision of toughening you up and not letting you take the easy out hahaha.

insidestory SG

My friends(BTC one) dont really like arrogant people who use chim-lish and make them look stupid.

Dont introduce yourself as a JC fellow, and never talk about education sensitive topic.

Thanks for proving TS's point!!!! And for proving what everyone here knows and is fighting to deny because denial is more comfortable than acknowledging that you may be a toad. Please don't take this literally and think I'm calling you a toad. If you had half the brains of a JC student you may understand what I mean and how I may be quoting you but i'm not calling you a toad because the 'you' here does not mean literally you. Gettit?

You said your friends (BTC) don't like people who project themselves in a 'chim-lish' way and MAKE THEM LOOK STUPID!

And don't talk about education. And it's admittedly A SENSITIVE TOPIC TO THEM!!

*Clap Clap* thanks for proving what everyone here who's had the guts to face the truth knows deep inside and articulating so well.

In general these people feel inferior. And they generally don't get to vent this inferiority because in most cases, the much higher educated people such as the scholars are always always officers so rank-wise they can't do squat. I remember long ago there was one dumb toad who posted in sgforums asking why the government makes all the scholars officers, how about creating specialists safos? oh nevermind out of topic.

Even slightly higher educated but still relatively dumb twits, like TS's farmer OC with "honours degree", presumably from a farmer (local) university,if chosen to go OCS or SISPEC are out of the claws and clutches of their inferiority complex due to rank. Even if they feel inferior they can't do squat.

Its when someone who represents whom they resent, oddly in a very rare instance presents himself to be the same rank as them in a mono intake, that gives them the perfect launchpad and opportunity to MOB. This mobbing is a manifestation of the inferiority complex you so directly and candidly put in words here.Shit is this chim-lish?! Help don't mob me.

insidestory SG

This thread has proven one salient point.

NS does have a role in integrating different classes of people in a society. Without it, individuals might have even less understanding and knowledge of people outside their own comfort zone.

Corporate world mirrors the military in that sense, you're forced to work with diverse individuals and it's up to you to find a common ground where everyone can get along and thrive.

In the military, constant harping about one's educational status is a surefire way to lose friends and make enemies. Respect is garnered through how you can respect others and not let them down in a team environment. Don't nitpick on whether you are brainier than the chap beside you.

Book smarts don't count for everything, that goes for the concrete jungle too.

You made the assumption that TS "constantly harped" on his coming from a JC to his platoon-mates when he might not even have casually said it when introducing himself or said it at all without being asked. Chances are they found out, because a group asked him and word spread, and they mobbed him.

TS has made himself clear that he only stated he's a JC kid in this forum, and not in camp, because he was here soliciting for advice, because it is obvious to him, as it would be to anyone smarter than a one-cell organism, they are mobbing and singling him because of it. How do you expect him to tell his sorrowful tale in an accurate manner to get the best advice here, without telling it like it is? Does it mean he even mentioned he's from JC to the bozos all the time, in a boastful way or like it matters to him? In any case, anyone knows that its only the short people who think that tall people are very pleased with their height. Most tall people generally dun give a shit. thats human psychology for you.

What a leap of logic in one post. No wonder you ended up as a DXO sucking the uniforms' dicks in Mindef as your career. Hope you're out of it now. There's no such thing as 'book smart'. its a term that stupid (aka not smart) people came up with. And the smart people's dicks are the ones in your mouth.

LazerLordz SG

And your equally fanciful leap of logic has jumped canals without much thought either.

TS's complaints are not rare. If you think it's rare, then you have not had the fortune (or misfortune) to have come across them.

A dime a dozen.. many JC kids think they're special and for the rest of us who have left that phase of life behind, we look back and realise that there's nothing special about being from top schools while you're in NS.

Jealousy will always be there. But it's been said that conflict is always a two-way mechanism. No smoke without fire, no wayang without the kulit strings and hell if there's any blowback without a lit match in the first place. Any fellow with common sense would know that the military organisation has different "rules" in effective "socialisation". I'm sure you're smart enough to figure out what comes after that.

Frankly, the world is much larger than this ecology.

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