RSN: Naval Ranks

per.ardua SG

I'm not sure if I saw an old topic on the same issue, but since we're on this whole '3G SAF' concept nowadays, I think it would be high time to restore the traditional naval ranks like Commander, Lieutenant-Commander and Ensign back to our own Navy.

Note that I used 'restored' instead of 'changed' because Singapore used to have these ranks before tri-service standardisation.

I mean, the current system is as though our Navy is subordinate to the Army. It is only us and Indonesia which pegs their naval rank system to that of the Army. The current system, in my opinion, is not good practice.

It makes things complicated for international relations. When most navies with a very minute minority have traditional ranking, it makes it confusing during exercises. An RSN Captain would be a Lieutenant in the RN, RAN, RNZN or even the USN for that matter. An RSN Colonel would be a Captain in every other Navy.

In my opinion, restoration of the traditional naval rank titles would give our Navy its own distinct identity that they should be proud of. What should be realised is that the cultures of the Army and Navy are different, and they should be treated as such. The Navy is not the Army. It has its own professional traditions which must be respected and not sacrificed for the sake of standardising all three services. Blending them like what is being done with the current rank system is not giving much thought to the hundreds of years of naval tradition that the world's nations have been brought to respect. It is not a matter of 'copying ang moh navies' when Malaysia and India are using them. We also cannot give the excuse that it would be confusing when every other country in the world (except Indonesia, again) can differentiate Petty Officers from Sergeants and Captains from Colonels without difficulty.

Maybe one day there will be change. Any views on this matter? Would you agree or disagree that our Navy's ranks need reform?

dkcx SG

Since the system has been this way for some time, actually changing it would make things messier for SAF since there is often alot of interactions between the 3 service and changing the ranks might cause more confusion without our own armed forces.

External navies that works with Singapore should already be used to our ranking system already and should not be too much of a problem for them.

SAF usually has the policy that if something is not broken, there is no major reason to revamp things to cause confusion among the people

However i would say regardless how the ranks are called, they are meaningless to me so i am not really bothered nor concern about that.

per.ardua SG

I'm wondering what made the SAF decide to peg the ranks to the army. When Canada standardised its insignias when forming Canadian Forces, the single Service from the existing three and reorganised itself, they let the Navy keep its rank titles even though the insignia was standardised. Why didn't Singapore do something like that? Surely if it works for everyone else, it could work here. Or were we just being over-pragmatic and sacrificing tradition for efficiency?

dkcx SG

Thats something i guess few can answer since the mods here are not high ranking officers, we can't say whats on the minds of the ppl up there.

Sabrotguin SG

i think that all ranks should be pegged the same. But to avoid conflicts, people from navy take orders from their own CO and not the CO from Army or Air Force. Like that would be easier,i doubt it would be implemented anytime soon tho

per.ardua SG

No, the issue here is not with who is commanding who. Army ranks have equivalents in the Navy and Air Force. The issue here is about adhering to time-honoured tradition. The Naval Service is unique, and in my opinion, should be recognised as so. The current system makes it seem as though the Navy is a branch of the Army, which it should never be.

Lokey SG

Note that I used 'restored' instead of 'changed' because Singapore used to have these ranks before tri-service standardisation.

Maybe one day there will be change. Any views on this matter? Would you agree or disagree that our Navy's ranks need reform?

I think we should restore the rank, because when we go out for mission with US navy. It is really confusing for us.

During one of the missions, I went to clubbing with a US captain <--- Did not know he is the COL of our equivalence. But lucky I am save.

We call the ship captain, "captain", but actually it is a COL so it also very confusing.

But the navy officers dont really mind their rank much though.

dkcx SG

I think we should restore the rank, because when we go out for mission with US navy. It is really confusing for us.

During one of the missions, I went to clubbing with a US captain <--- Did not know he is the COL of our equivalence. But lucky I am save.

We call the ship captain, "captain", but actually it is a COL so it also very confusing.

But the navy officers dont really mind their rank much though.

U from navy de ah, didn't know that.

To me, all officers juz greet as sir regardless of their rank so i won't really care how high up he is on the officer hierachy but then i don't meet anyone above my own CO since i hardly go to formation HQ.

Arapahoe SG

perharps it is time to do a review of the merit....RSN expanded so much, frigate, sub, helio and capable of taking expanded international responsibilities in the gulf and somali coast.

Short Ninja SG

TS, I do agree that the Navy has its own tradition and should not be treated as a branch from the Army.Why should SAF be any different from the rest?

Lokey SG

perharps it is time to do a review of the merit....RSN expanded so much, frigate, sub, helio and capable of taking expanded international responsibilities in the gulf and somali coast.

actually the high rank officers never bother much about the ranks. they play soccer with men on. lol.

Acx1688 SG

actually the high rank officers never bother much about the ranks. they play soccer with men on. lol.

that's the uniqueness of the NAvy as there is only one ship n you cant do w/o the other...
Returning of Naval ranks is and should be adopted coz its ridiculous to call the Ship Captain colonel when it is equivalent...

LazerLordz SG

I personally prefer the Navy to adopt naval ranks as well. They have a maritime feel to it.

However, I can see why there are rank commonalities. It might be the result of wanting to maintain ease of command in joint operations, it helps when people don't have to translate different ranks into their equivalents when working with people of a different Service.

insidestory SG

Definitely. It would be confusing for non naval officers at Joint level.

per.ardua SG

Perhaps it might be confusing initially, but when every other navy in the world can get by and function well with traditional rankings, I don't see why we cannot do so as well. I understand where the argument about tri-service confusion is coming from, but this should this understanding be allowed to erode tradition for purely practical reasons? Tradition is at the heart of any armed Service. Since every other navy can get by, is the current policy being overly pragmatic?

What do you guys think?

SBS2601D SG

actually the high rank officers never bother much about the ranks. they play soccer with men on. lol.

The hiearchy still stays no matter how you see it.

The only officers who got their hands dirty with the specs were the attached ones. Typically its because they had just graduated from OCS and they just can't stand back and watch people seat. Things change when they become part of the estab crew. Understandably its partly because they act as supervisors.

Neither do they participate in the funny shit that happens in the bunks of the specs.

Arapahoe SG

actually the high rank officers never bother much about the ranks. they play soccer with men on. lol.

I don't think it is a matter of Officer vs other ranks. It is perharps more of a evolving nature it take into consideration with scope and the size of the fleet too....

RSN has assumed Task force Command in the gulf and will be for somalia coast next year. You are now bringing scope and responsibilities of more than just your own ship. But also foreign shorelines and foreign ships and Helio.

It is something to think about what kind of acquired knowledge and skill for a combine arm "Commander" before you put him/her up there with the same Rank....

sbst275 SG

SAF's rank system is alrdy too complicating, it's not going to be easy to switch back to the actual Navy ranks/ ratings