Most Info Loaded: RSAF Pilot / WSO Applicants' Tips & Tricks

last SG · 2008-02-24T02:42:57+00:00

Why do you want to be a wso in a UAV? Wrong choice, like Kopi said, SIA.

Gloater SG

There are indeed many urban myths abounding in the SAF and outside of it eg about how SAF views SMS and the pay package and competitiveness of becoming fighter/commercial pilots. In many forums, there are an equal mix of people who haven't stepped into the workforce and working adults who are misled into believing that commercial pilots (in this case SIA, since it's the biggest employer if applicant is Singaporean) get paid more than RSAF pilot or that it's easier to become RSAF pilot than SIA pilot..

The minimal criteria for pilot set by SIA is A level or diploma, minimal 26 yrs old. There are some diploma holders who are SIA pilots, some have a basic degree from degree mills like NUS or Australian universities. Like a number i know studied lit or geog.

The minimal criteria for pilot set by RSAF is also A level or diploma. There are equal mix of diploma holders and degree holder farmers. Academic profile of both sets are about the same (mediocre- either A level, poly or degree mill degree). What sets the other criteria apart though is a different story.

To be RSAF pilot, at least we know they had to qualify and graduate from OCS. There is no OCS hurdle for commercial pilots and a number of commercial pilots were corporate losers doing temp work before they applied to SIA. Physical fitness is also a much great requirement and concern for fighter pilots while many commercial pilots are fat slobs. Military pilots have to handle the Gforce so of course they have to be much fitter than autopilot pilots.

Its also a misconception that commercial pilots are obscenely well paid, or paid better than RSAF pilots. This untruth has been spoken by many in forums because they do NOT actually know the pay that both persons get. They do not have friends or family who work as either. They read someone else say it in a forum, and believe it. And they spread the lie unwittingly the next time round by typing the same thing in another forum without ever coming close to the truth.
http://www.alpas.org/page.php?id=5

After someone gets an offer from SIA to be a pilot, he goes through a 2 year training (usually in Australia and S'pore).

During this period of 26 months, he gets $750, a stupid salary less than many JC/poly students' allowances.. Most of these pilot trainees I know can't even afford to pay for meals for their gfs at Cafe Cartel. But of cos they like to go around boasting that they're SIA pilot trainees which most Tom, Dick or Harry could easily become after a life of utter dismal mediocrity. They boast as though they think they're President's Scholars.

Obviously commercial pilots don't actually do any flying cos the commercial planes are autopilot. The only time they do any flying or utilise any brain cell in the course of their work is 1) during take off 2) during landing.

This is also why they are paid the way they are. Refer to the website I showed. By the time they finish their 26 month training after the earliest age of 26 drawing $750 per month, they would be 28+ or 29.

After 2 years at 29, this poor sod becomes a First Officer (the sidekick in the cockpit).

According to information provided by the association of pilots, they get a salary of S$4,475, which is less than SAF non pilot (say, ok Army) NUS degree holder farmer CPT regular's pay at 27. This is a laughable joke, but it is tragically true, unfortunately.

Let's not even talk about scholars here (SAFOS). Just non scholar regular Joes. A NUS degree holder RSAF farmer pilot at 26 is drawing at least $7K to $8K pilot salary.

Indeed, this is a joke but it gets funnier.

That poor sod's pay remain fairly stagnant UNTIL 10 YEARS LATER from the time he becomes First Officer, before he becomes a Captain (the mainman in the cockpit).

By then, he'd be 29+10= 39 years old.

But of course, you'll expect that his salary gets a big fat adjustment after it's so shitty even WOs earn more than him. But no! His salary at 39 yrs old earliest, and as SIA Captain is ONLY $8500!!!!! A RSAF NUS farmer pilot regular receive that pay before they even hit 30 years old (note only pilots lah, not non pilot regulars).

This means for 10 LONG YEARS after they get First Officer, no matter what, their salary increment is capped until/if they become Captain minimum 10 years later. Most take longer than 10 years to become Captain.

As you can see from the fucked up ridiculous pay that commensurates with no brain-power work in the cockpit (the only 2 perks are you get loose stewardesses throwing themselves at you and there are many ignorant people outside who think you earn big bucks and boost your ego), after you retire from RSAF and go commercial, is when you can expect stupid pay for doing stupid non-flying work.

DON'T BE FOOLED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How long does it take to become a Captain?

To reach the rank of Captain takes on average 10 years, clocking over 4,700 hours of flying through a minimum of 1,000 flying sectors as a First Officer. The basic salary range for Captains vary depending on the aircraft type or fleet he belongs to.

What is a pilot’s pay like?

Salaries vary depending on the type of aircraft a pilot is assigned to fly and the number of hours flown. Advancement of a pilot’s salary also depends on his length of service with the company and the fleet he belongs to. A First Officer’s basic salary starts from S$4,475 while a Captain’s starts from S$8,550.

cheeze SG

pilots pay don't only comprise of basic salary. you need to factor in the flying allowance. so for the SIA guys i'm sure they are getting in excess of 4k + the flying allowance. so total salary for 1st officer can be estimated around the 8k or more region? not too bad already lah.

SIA captain is definitely 5 digit total.....

but yes of course. it takes a hell of a long time to get there

Gloater SG

SIA captain is definitely 5 digit total.....

but yes of course. it takes a hell of a long time to get there

You want to back that up? My loser pilot friends revealed to me that the allowance does not constitute more than 10 % to 20% of the total pay on average. The website states that the allowance only constitutes up to AT THE VERY MOST 30% of the total net pay.

Yet the figure you are claiming is that the allowance is MORE THAN DOUBLE of the basic salary, making the basic salary less than 50% of the total net pay which is a tall tale. I have facts and figures, and I know that pilots allowance in good times before all the flight routes are hived off, only constitutes 10 to 20% of total nett pay. With the hiving now taking place (i'm sure you've read the papers), i think allowance is 2 to 5%.

SIA pilot pay is a joke. Don't be fooled and don't think SIA is some dream paradise when the time you finally leave RSAF, you cry your balls out and wish you had carried more balls back in RSAF. Those stupid guys in RSAF waiting to go to SAI (if what one poster here claimed is true lah..) are in for a big shock of their lives when they go to SAI.

What is Pilots’ Productivity Allowance?

The Pilots’ Productivity Allowance (PPA) is an hourly rate paid for every hour flown. Under the prevailing CA, the PPA comprises up to 30% of a pilot’s total income. As this part of the pilot’s salary is based on productivity, it is variable – the more a pilot flies, the more he earns. As such, in cases when flights are cancelled, if he is sent on course, or if he is on medical or annual leave, his salary will be correspondingly affected. Thus, a pilot’s salary can fluctuate – the less he flies, the lower his income.

For example, PPA earned during the height of the SARS period was significantly affected as a result of the large number of cancelled flights. During that period, pilots’ flying hours suffered a very drastic drop to less than half of what they usually flew. Coupled with the cut in their basic salaries, pilots effectively saw their total income reduced by up to about 45%. (This does not include the opportunity costs from compulsory no-pay leave taken during the SARS period.). Under the current prevailing CA, the PPA is $41 per hour for SIA captains and $23 per hour for co-pilots.

The allowance I was told by the SIA autopilots is negligible. If their pay is only $4.5K, that's only $5k tops at 29 yr old. On the same timeline scale, they earn less than most office workers in Shenton Way as well as non-pilot SAF NUS CPT farmer regulars who command that pay by 27-28.

cheeze SG

pay is a sensitive topic for all i am sure and unfortunately i don't have concrete evidence as to what is the exact pay is.so let's just say you're justified in your claim. this is just a discussion topic anyway.

but then again after all the numerous chats that i have with my ex-colleagues who have transitioned over to commercial flying. i'm more inclined to believe the numbers that they have told me. like i said it is ballpark figures. but then again, the figure that they earn as a 1st officer is about the same as an airforce captain as a bench mark figure (including all the allowances). and the salary as an SIA captain is comparable to an airforce LTC.

but think of it this way, if one was a major and earning xxx amount of money, why would they leave the airforce in their mid 30s for a job that gives them lesser pay? and airforce has always benchmarked pilots pay to commercial sector pay and not vice versa.

i mean of course when they are training to be 2nd/1st officers there will be a pay cut, but the eventual pay once they get their captaincy would be around the same ballpark figure again, but of course this is dependant on which fleet they are on. i think the long haul flights will definitely draw a higher pay for those pilots.

rs rs SG

sorry to butt in but, if u're earning more money in rsaf but u drag your feet into the camp usually doing not wad u like, which is flying, of course u'll choose another job which may pay less but at least u get to fly almost everyday?

bloodsucker SG

There are indeed many urban myths abounding in the SAF and outside of it about pay packages and eg about how SAF views SMS and the pay package and competitiveness of becoming fighter/commercial pilots. In many forums, there are an equal mix of people who haven't stepped into the workforce and working adults who are misled into believing that commercial pilots (in this case SIA, since it's the biggest employer if applicant is Singaporean) get paid more than RSAF pilot or that it's easier to become RSAF pilot than SIA pilot..

The minimal criteria for pilot set by SIA is A level or diploma, minimal 26 yrs old. There are some diploma holders who are SIA pilots, most have a basic degree from degree mills like NUS or Australian universities. Like a number i know studied lit or geog.

The minimal criteria for pilot set by RSAF is also A level or diploma. There are equal mix of diploma holders and degree holder farmers. Academic profile of both sets are about the same (mediecore- either A level, poly or degree mill degree). What sets the other criteria apart though is a different story.

After someone gets an offer from SIA to be a pilot, he goes through a 2 year training (usually in Australia and S'pore).

After 2 years at 29, this poor sod becomes a First Officer (the sidekick in the cockpit).

Let's not even talk about scholars here (SAFOS). Just non scholar regular Joes. A NUS degree holder RSAF farmer pilot at 26 is drawing at least $7K to $8K pilot salary.

Indeed, this is a joke but it gets funnier.

That poor sod's pay remain fairly stagnant UNTIL 10 YEARS LATER from the time he becomes First Officer, before he becomes a Captain (the mainman in the cockpit).

By then, he'd be 29+10= 39 years old.

As you can see from the fucked up ridiculous pay that commensurates with no brain-power work in the cocktail (the only 2 perks are you get loose stewardesses throwing themselves at you and there are many ignorant people outside who think you earn big bucks and boost your ego), after you retire from RSAF and go commercial, is when you can expect stupid pay for doing stupid non-flying work.

DON'T BE FOOLED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude u rock. I have never liked those autopilots, and now u give me even more reason to dislike those fat white clowns.

Well u gotta do what u like. Some people dun like military life, so they leave. But then u can hardly call what the SIA pilots do as flying. They are more of emergency backups to the computer systems rather than purist flyers.

I'm pretty sure u already noe what kinds of superior autopilot tech these big jets have. From the moment after take-off, they can engage the AP until right before landing. And now it gets even more ridiculous. These clowns have something called autolanding, which makes their job even easier. Of course, if u call that flying, I have nothing to say. Taking off an aircraft and taxiing on the ground is not hard at all.

Gloater SG

I don't understand which bit of simple facts spoken in plain normal English you do not get.

Fact: You do NOT know the pay of SIA (or rather I'd prefer to call the company and them- SAI) pilots. Your "facts" are from what your SAI pilot friends tell you in ballpark, What I have are FACTS from the Association of Pilot website to back me up. This comes on top of facts I already know from actual SAI pilots I know. The difference between you and me? You don't seem to have any intel beyond 'ballpark' sketchiness. I have actual figures. You can't back your intel up with verifiable info from official sources. I could and did. The lack of any actual fact on your end you explain as "pay is sensitive topic". When your friends earn so peanuts, of cos their pay is sensitive. Heck if i was earning so little and my salary map is fixed to be so low all the way to 40 yr old, heck my pay will be my sore sensitive spot as well.

Fact: You said that First Officers also get an allowance component in their salary. You tried to inflate that portion. Luckily I have FACTS to counter you, the allowance component is 10 to 20% only. Even with the allowance, their pay at 29 yr old is so much lower than a SAF non pilot personnel's pay!!!!!!

I also forgot to tell you: The allowance portion is negligible it fails to add much more $ to their measley pay. A typical First Officer clocks about 30 to 40 hrs a month. Typically a SAI pilot flies 1 to at most 2 long haul flights and the rest are made up of short flights and turnarounds in the region. A flight to Europe is about 10 hrs so back and forth so at most 20 hrs for one long haul flight, of which they usually station in Europe for a week before they fly back, which means no flying in between. This means according to the figs provided by the website, the allowance is pathetic. First officers are given only $22 per hour when flying. This makes their flying pay less than what many executives in Shenton Way or professionals in PR, advertising or journalism earn. My SPH journalist gf makes $35 per hour (she's 28) when she divides her monthly salary down to per hour. This is the amount SPH pays her when she works on weekends.

FACT: Maybe your ex colleagues who became SAI AUTOpilots tried to toot their horn and boast. This is very typical of SAI people anyway (both their AUTOpilots who do jackshit and their air waitresses who serve fish or meat for 5 mins). Your response to me: "why would my friends leave to go become SAI pilots"? has no merit or weight whatsoever. You must ask them why they got hongkan and now got SAI pay. The only way they could earn less in RSAF if they were pilots is if they were condemned for a decade at CPT pilot. Even a CPT pilot at 40 may earn more than a SAI Captain (who must be 40yr if not older) since salary increases yr from yr in SAF without promotion.

Perhaps your SAI autopilot friends too, like millions of deceived people out there thought that SAI AUTOpilots are paid shitloads of money then signed on with SAI by then realised paid like SAI too late liao. Or one step worse, since their teens they laid all their bets on SAI as they plotted to leave SAF, so they screwed around in and screwed SAF, in other words, they played the wrong game and laid the wrong bets. HONG KAN. By then they got hong kan, too late liao. That is entirely possible, given that in this thread I already saw about 4-5 deceived posters agreeing with one another saying go commercial, wah its harder to become SAI, oh they are paid so much more than RSAF pilots, so if you want big bucks SAI commercial is the way to go blah blah.. this shows the general level of ignorance about commercial pilot's pay out there. This is not the only forum I witnessed this. I've seen it many times. It's sad but true. I myself stumbled upon this funny truth about SAI pilot pay incidentally when my SAI pilot friends revealed it to me. had they not told me thinking that their pay is higher than people outside, i wouldn't have found out.

FACT: you're wrong abt and can't prove that the 'eventual pay' of SAI pilots who leave RSAF to join SAI will be at least the same pay they were getting as military pilots after they finish the 26 mth training, (which you don't dare to say) which pays them $750 per mth. Even my 19 yr old cousin in poly gets a higher allowance than that.

Explain this sentence "airforce has always benchmarked pilots pay to commercial sector pay and not vice versa." I don't understand what you said here. If RSAF has benchmarked its pay to "commercial sector" which I guess you meant SAI, then how come SAI pay is so bad?! The thing is: there is no benchmarking. SAI pay can't even meet RSAF pay halfway. There is no benchmarking in any direction. No need to say vice or versa.

I'm sure you also can't prove that SAI Captain (who would be AT LEAST 40 years old as I have shown with facts from the official source) earns the same as an airforce LTC. Also, are you comparing with a NON PILOT RSAF LTC or a Pilot LTC? Let's say 2 non scholars (=non SAFOS) one is pilot LTC, the other is non pilot LTC, the pilot dude will earn more even if they have the same degree and everything else same. So you want to compare a SAI Captain who is at least 40 yr old's salary with a RSAF NON-pilot LTC? It's like someone in university feeling smug he beat a JC kid in maths.

Fact is, a SAI Captain has to be at least 40 and he only earns a miserable $8K in excess. That is pathetic salary. Even NON Pilot COL with farmer degree in the army, navy, wherever earns double of that. So to compare with a pilot COL or LTC, the 40 yr old SAI Autopilot's pay is even more peanuts.

Dude u rock. I have never liked those autopilots, and now u give me even more reason to dislike those fat white clowns.

Dude me too i can't stand them. All the SAI autopilots I know are losers who think they're damn great but really they fly autopilot and now you know they also earn peanuts. When they told me their salaries I was gobsmacked by how low it was so i went to find out more from people I know in that company (not pilots, but their higher level execs) and learnt all this. I was shocked too coz as I said before, so many ppl outside are deceived and think they earn so much and earning power in the league of medical specialist or a full COL but they DO NOT. They earn such shite pay most non specialised professionals friends of mine eg marketing, PR, HR also earn more than them. their pay can't even match to a non pilot LTC, no need to compare with pilot or with a SAFOS scholar who will hit LTC by early 30s. At 40 yr old earning so peanuts. In SAF, by 40 normal farmer officer will be LTC or COL liao and earning much more. Yet I always read in forums clowns going "Oh go commercial. its where the $$ is" or "ohh its sooo hard to become a SAI pilot.. ohh they make such big bucks~" I'd go in my head "seow.."

And yes you're so right to call them fat white clowns. It's so apt....good god.

VagueHart SG

You're using the word "hong kan" wrongly.

cheeze SG

yea. i don't have any facts . i don't have the luxury of my ex-colleagues to show their payslips to me. maybe your friends understate their pay, or u've really seen the pay slip i'll give it to you. but like i said the ballpark figure is 6 to 8k for a 1st officer. 5 digits for a captain depending on seniority and fleet on a good month. btw, their pay for SQ is basic pay +flying allowance+travel allowances for the flights. that factors into the total pay also. but like u mentioned, their allowance portion is very flexible based on how much you fly. so maybe 8k is on a good month while your stated 4k+20% on an average month? who knows? probably you know the best already since you have friends and so much evidence.

i'm just being objective here and stating what not just only one ex colleague has mentioned. commercial flying is definitely still huge career switch for airforce guys and defnititely an important decision because of the financial implications.

but then again, i can't possible know much. we're only pilots. we operate machines and let outsiders decide if our pay is shit or not.and let forumers decide if its stupid for a mid-career switch and all.

anyway by your arguments here, are you saying that it is GOOD to stay in airforce. and DUMB to go to SQ? just wondering why you hate SQ so much. but by all your comments just said you pretty much just said most of the airforce pilots who were majors/LTCs were dumb enough to cross over. but then again SQ is a decent paying job company til a much later retirement age right?

btw there is a scheme for military pilots to transition over to SQ, their basic pay while they are training is definitely not $750 a month. and for those with sufficient hours, they'll prob hit 1st/2nd officer about 6 months to a year faster than the ab initio pilot trainees. btw, i'm comparing pay betweein airforce pilot captains/1st officer and LTC/SIA captain. they are quite close enough benchmarks. and if SQ wasn't paying more than RSAF, then RSAF wouldn't need to keep doing market adjustments to the pay to attract pilots to stay on in the organisation right?

just stating the "facts" that i know. :D

i remembered there was a dispute about pilot pay in the airlines sometime ago. this is the link to the article.

http://travel.asiaone.com/Travel/News/Story/A1Story20070609-13259.html

"A SINGAPORE Airlines Boeing 777 captain at the mid-point of his salary bracket makes more than $270,000 a year. This makes him a bigger earner than a vice-president of the company, who makes $233,270."

270k annually in the mid-point range for a captain? so let's assume that a 1st officer earns just 50% of what a captain earns. still not bad already lah. haha.

but then its just a newspaper arcticle, maybe they are lying.......but then again they had to disclose their salary ranges in court. hmmmm

by the way, the alpa-s website http://www.alpas.org/page.php?id=5 was last updated 17th November 2004. i'm pretty sure salary packages have gone up since then. or maybe someone should ask them to update their website eh?

this is from a forum which is still visited quite often now. click on http://www.airlinespilot.com/viewforum.php?f=1 for more info.

http://www.airlinespilot.com/viewtopic.php?t=1073 *on gloater's request*

Singapore Airlines

Second Officers

From S$ 2,035.00 to S$ 3,325.00 per month

First Officers

From S$ 4,925.00/S$ 5,150.00 to S$ 8,500.00 (B777/A340)
From S$ 5,375.00/S$ 5,600.00 to S$ 9,250.00 (B747-400)

Captains

From S$ 8,850.00/S$ 9,300.00 to S$ 15,300.00 (B777/A340)
From S$ 9,550.00/S$ 10,000.00 to S$ 16,500.00(B747-400)

Notes on pilots' allowances in SIA:

Second Officers on line training do not receive productivity allowances except for meal and night stop allowances.
Cargo pilots are paid per diem of S$ 8.00 per hour when away from base.
First Officer and Captain productivity allowances are S$ 36.00 and S$ 55.00 respectively.
Main Fleet pilots get productivity allowance for half the flying hours when they are traveling as a passenger on duty.
A First Officer gets about S$ 4,000.00 to S$ 6,000.00 total allowances (estimate only).
A Captain gets about S$ 5,000.00 to S$ 10,000.00 total allowances (estimate only).
Rates for meal allowances are dependent on the cities.

i'm pretty sure this info is generally quite accurate if people are currently still going into that forum and asking questions. agree?

so assume worst case scenario lah, e.g for a 1st officer.. 4.9K + total allowance of 4k = 8.9K.

around that ball park estimate right?

i'm sure everyone passed their maths here in school.

FACT: gloater will probably dismiss all this unofficial sources like forums,news articles and word-of mouth as not accurate information and thus insist that the outdated alpa-s website is the official evidence. okay lor. gloater is right then!! everybody can read and judge for themself okay? :D friendly discussion anyways. :)

Gloater SG

i remembered there was a dispute about pilot pay in the airlines sometime ago. this is the link to the article.

http://travel.asiaone.com/Travel/News/Story/A1Story20070609-13259.html

270k annually in the mid-point range for a captain? so let's assume that a 1st officer earns just 50% of what a captain earns. still not bad already lah. haha.

but then its just a newspaper arcticle, maybe they are lying.......but then again they had to disclose their salary ranges in court. hmmmm

this is from a forum which is still visited quite often now. click on http://www.airlinespilot.com/viewforum.php?f=1 for more info.

i'm pretty sure this info is generally quite accurate if people are currently still going into that forum and asking questions. agree?

so assume worst case scenario lah, e.g for a 1st officer.. 4.9K + total allowance of 4k = 8.9K.

around that ball park estimate right?

i'm sure everyone passed their maths here in school.

SAI pilots are paid shit + peanuts. What do I call that? shit laced peanuts? Your wall of text does not change a fact.

SAI 777 Captains DO NOT make up SAI Captains. That is not the salary commanded by all SAI CAPTAINS . The bulk of SIA fleet are made of Boeing 747-400s and 30 Airbus A340-300s, not 777. Anyone who has taken SIA a few times knows this.

Anyone can only become a SAI CAPTAIN at 40yrs EARLIEST. Their pay at 40 is PATHETIC. How can you even claim that they earn SO MUCH MORE than RSAF pilot when their pay is not even comparable to a NON RSAF pilot at 40? A 40 yr old COL

A SAI pilot's pay is CAPPED at $8K at 40 yrs old. This means that 40 is the earliest age for a SAI pilot to make $7K plus. Do you know how many people in Singapore make $7K+ before 30. Plenty. ALL RSAF pilots make $7k by 26. A 26 year old Army SAFOS makes $8K+ at 26.

Do you know how many non pilots in SAF I can find for you before 40 who make double of that? Do i even need to pull in pilots?

It's a lost cause, you're fighting a losing battle and I can see your SAI bubble you nursed for decades since you put all your eggs in a rotten basket bursting even from here.

Haha the 'updated' First Office allowance is only $3 more than the one I listed from the Association of Pilot. Show me proof that the additional $3 per hour, and when the productivity component of the allowance only takes up UP TO 30% of a pilot's nett pay, and that is the MAXIMUM you know? On average during GOOD TIMES it's 10 to 20%. That was BEFORE THE FLIGHTS WERE HIVED. i can't believe since 2004 till now is 2008, I feel sorry that they're worth $3 more per hour. Can't even combat yearly inflation.

I clicked the link you provided, and it didn't turn up the page you claimed. Maybe you can give us a correct link?The page that turned up is main forum interface. I could very well post a link here that doesn't check out, then type in fabricated text in this forum. Which thread and post did you get that from?

The person posting the information is from Association of Pilot or SIA? Otherwise, I can also go in and start an account and post information that is not verified.

The additional measley $3 per hours doesn't turn the salary of a pilot at 29 yrs old from $4k to $8k. You 'gave' them a 100% pay rise without any proof and substantiation. You pasted a wall of text from somewhere that only shows a $3 per hour increment, and you wrote some nonsense on your own to double the salary.When I clicked on the link, it shows a forum page, not credible info from an official source like SIA or the Association of Pilot. Heck it doesn't even show the info you pasted. You randomly showed us a link to a main forum page and came up with a wall of text here. if you can, go create an account now in that forum and type all that info you typed here. I'd like to see when the post was entered in the forum.

Like that I also can paste a link to the main page of the SAF forum and say, General's pay is actually $100K a month. I know for a fact that it's about 1/2 of that, but I think add this, add that, blah blah, it's $100k a month. Taxi driver's pay is $5K a month.

You're not the only one who can paste news links

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_296430.html

SINGAPORE Airlines (SIA) will cut the number of flights to a several Asian cities in response to falling demand.

The airline said in a statement on Wednesday that it would reduce the number of flights between Singapore and several cities in Asia including Penang, Ho Chi Minh City, Seoul, Osaka, Bangalore and Chennai. It will stop flights to Amritsar in India.

'Other changes will be made on an ad-hoc basis where demand requires,' it said, adding capacity adjustments will be made quickly where demand falls.

The airline said the changes, which are being implemented progressively throughout the five-month-long Northern winter schedule from Sunday, will 'better match capacity with demand.'

Services to Penang and Ho Chi Minh will be gradually reduced to 18 and 17 weekly flights respectively, while one service to Seoul will be first reduced and scrapped completely from Feb 2 to March 28 next year when the winter season ends.

But SIA's 17 weekly services to and from Seoul during winter remain unchanged.

Frequencies to Bangalore and Chennai will also be reduced, while the service to Amritsar will be dropped from February. Passengers who have booked on flights to the northern Indian city will be transferred to SIA's New Delhi service.

But SIA has increased services to the Middle East, with flights to Istanbul, via Dubai, raised from four to six. SIA will also fly to Riyadh soon.

These changes come two weeks after the carrier reported that it had been hit by its first fall in passenger numbers in three years.

The airline's passenger numbers in raw terms fell 1.6 per cent to 1.51 million in September from a year ago.

The passenger load factor also declined 4.1 per cent to 76.9 per cent last month.

'In the current operating environment, Singapore Airlines remains committed to providing customers the highest standard of service, while ensuring capacity is allocated carefully to match demand,' said SIA.

'Where demand falls, capacity adjustments will be made quickly.'

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Money/Story/STIStory_296491.html

cheeze SG

okay la. gloater u know the best.

even i myself as a military pilot dunno how much i am earning or possibly earn. damn sad lah. to be told by an outsider i earn peanuts. heh.

rylche SG

Troll troll troll alert!

I'm relieved to see that not many have replied to the inane postings of a certain poster above, proving that sweeping generalizations of salary being the most important part of the job is definitely not on the forefront of your average Singaporean's agenda.

Gloater SG

Look the jig is up. And no matter how you try to twist or conjure info from nowhere to sway public knowledge of the truth, no matter how you insist without any proof that SAI First Officer pay at 30, 31, 32 is not $4, but it's $4.5k, $5k or $5.5k or even $6, all without proof, it doesn't matter.

You know why? Cos the crux of this is, the bubble is burst. You see, what's important is that the long and falsely held fallacy that commercial pilots are "so damn well paid" or that they're "paid many times more than military pilots in SG" or "its where the big bucks are at" is gone. The jig is up.

Even if you wanna add a few measley hundreds or thousands to what was public declared by an official source like the Association of Pilots, the fact is commercial pilots make peanuts once they start their career at 26. The peanut continues on to a slightly bigger peanut in their 30s compared to people in the corporate world or SAF officers. The peanut remains under the cap of $8k all the way till they're at least 40 yrs and older.

Fact is, I've shown everyone that a SAI Captain can only make an entry level pay of $8K. To be a SAI Captain the sod would be at least 40 if not at the mouldy end of 40s. Beoing 777 pilots are in their 50s. You can pull in miscellaneous benefits common to all professionals in SG all you want. SAI pilots aren't the only ones given allowances. We haven't even gone into the annual package. If a SAI pilot needs his allowance just to be equivalent to the basic pay of a RSAF pilot, it means his annual package is vastly lower because bonuses are tallied with basic pay, and never with basic pay + allowances. Fact is, i've burst the bubble and the false notion that you hold so dearly to your heart. It sucks but now everyone (at least here) knows.

Where the big bucks are at? Paid many times more or so much better than RSAF pilots? NOT.

Gloater SG

Troll troll troll alert!

I said that its not true that SAI pilots earn more than military pilots, certainly not in Singapore. I gave information contrary to what so many people in this thread did not know because they were saying without prior knowledge of SAI pilots' pay how they were making big bucks and it's where the $$ is at. It's not. That's all I said.

Now, don't put words in my mouth. I never once that salary is the "most important part of one's job" and I'll be impressed if you could show me when I did.

Why.... you accuse others of being a troll when they tell you things you don't like to hear

Gloater SG

okay la. gloater u know the best.

even i myself as a military pilot dunno how much i am earning or possibly earn. damn sad lah. to be told by an outsider i earn peanuts. heh.

why damn sad? I said you don't know the SAI commercial pay. I didn't say you don't know military pilot's pay.

Fat white clowns on autopilot are paid peanuts. Not military pilots.

Miltary pilots= OCS selected. fat white clowns= No OCS.

Both types of pilots are trained to handle emergency situations but the military pilot actually flies the damn plane. cheeze, if you're a military pilot you should know the fitness requirement of military pilots. Do you think it is more selective getting a place in a program where the pilot actually flies the plane, contends with Gforce or fly autopilot?

It is common sense to non pilots that it's easier to be selected for a job where you don't do anything vs a job that requires you to do what you're paid for.

cheeze, if you could come up with the info written just now on allowances, it must have been taken from somewhere in the pilot forum. can you show me? i am really interested to see. i'm open to correction if its valid cos life is an ever learning curve.

bloodsucker SG

Dude ur getting a little hostile here. No need to start a war over something as minor as pilot pay. Some RSAF pilots who switch over switch not becos of the pay, but maybe cos they are fed up with the military life, or prefer a workplace full of ladies. haha. No need to blast cheeze over here for something that he didnt do wrong in the 1st place alright?

cheeze SG

http://www.airlinespilot.com/viewtopic.php?t=1073

try this link. look towards the bottom it talks about SIA pay. the guy who started the forum is from SQ. hope this helps your quest. i'm not about to argue the point already i think we've beaten this issue to death.

well, like i mentioned before. if SQ pilot pay = peanuts. therefore, military pilot pay which is slightly less = what?? how not to be sad? haha.

anyway. sg males join SQ at 26, so say 7 yrs to a mid-range 1st officer. they get that amount of pay. its equivalent to a 26/7 year old captain pilot who has spent 7 years in the airforce. they are only penalised because of the minimum age, else all being equal at the same age they are actually earning slightly more.

the lucky ones are the m'sian guys who get to join SQ early like 20s, by the time they hit early 30s they already get their captaincy.

anyway this is all just a relative comparison of pilot salaries in military and commercial. you can choose to hold on to the fact the SQ pilots earn peanuts, i reckon you be part of airforce recruitment, they would certainly hold you as a prized asset for denoucing SIA pilots and maybe we could curb the turnover of military pilots that cross over to SQ?

airforce pilots are paid that amount cause it justifies the dangerous work and the responsibility of operating million dollar aircraft.

airline pilots are also commensurated a significant amount because they are responsible for the safety of all the passengers as well as the multimillion dollar aircraft. they may have more automated stuff but there is alot of systems monitoring throughout the flight because there is simply a bigger jet, more systems- more gauges and longer hours. its just there to help their job become easier.

both are totally different type of flying requirement.

Gloater SG

hey look dudes really not hostile or anything. hmmm, the thing is, if no one in sg said things all the time like "commercial is where the big bucks are, oh they pay so MUCH better than RSAF" to that exaggerated and hyperbolic levels,it won't elicit a reaction to people who know how much they are paid. The thing is, it's very far from the exaggeration and the hyperbole displayed everywhere. My point is, even if you add a few deviations from the figures thrown, they are a far cry from the hyperbole believed by many all this while. no, RSAF pilots do not earn less than commercial pilots. I'm also pretty sure that just as not all RSAF pilots become Generals, the Boeing 777 pilot pay is not representative of SQ pilot pay. cheers.

Gloater SG

Nah cheeze i'm not interested in recruitment work. I responded with info I know and believe to be true, because I reacted towards long time passing comments that are a far cry from the truth. That's all.

In your words, "the turnover of military pilots that cross to become fat white clowns" i reckon exists because they dislike SAF and military life, dislike the politicking shenanigans that I know SAF can have in significance, and not because of their pay's being allegedly so much lower in RSAF. I venture this much you can agree. All the comments about big bucks and what not.. far from the truth.

I never once said that RSAF's culture or the military was perfect, I am very clear about the points I wanted to make and made- they were about the misconceptions about remuneration and selectivity; And commercial pilots in Singapore do not hit some pay hike paradise compared to military. In fact they make less on mean average of start to end and when you compare 2 same age dudes, am I right? And I said it's easier to get into a program that doesn't have an OCS hurdle, doesn't require gruelling physical fitness.

there are many jobs that I would never take with salary higher than what I chose to do eg top insurance sales that earn millions of dollars cos I hate sales. I do think commercial pilots are poorly paid compared to military pilots, but i don't think RSAF pilots have a perfect life.

Gloater SG

Okay. I see your point. Just need to ask more cos i'm curious. Lets say a RSAF pilot starts from 23 and by 31 he should be a Maj (so he joined SAF for 8yrs). Earlier age to become SIA First Officer is 29 (after 2 yr training)+8 yrs experience= 37. Would the 37 yr old autopilot dude make as much as the 31 yr old military dude? Still, we're talking about a very big difference of 6 yrs even if they earn the same. I'd say based on the timeline (salary is compared by an age-based timeline as it presumes to rise with age), the commercial dude is paid less than a military pilot of the same age and paid less than military pilots up to 5-7 yrs younger than him?

I've 30 yr old military pilot friends who say they make over $10K per mth. Can verify if its true?

An experienced military pilot who retires at 45 to go to SIA, can he use the flying hours he clocked in RSAF and become a commercial Captain immediately?

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