Most Info Loaded: RSAF Pilot / WSO Applicants' Tips & Tricks

last SG · 2008-02-24T02:42:57+00:00

Why do you want to be a wso in a UAV? Wrong choice, like Kopi said, SIA.

Gloater SG

both are totally different type of flying requirement.

I know they're responsible for human life in a loose way, because the responsibility is sorta only kicked in the event of a plane failure. Commercial planes have more automated stuff because its size is larger so there are more systems. Can enlighten us the extent of flying and control the commercial pilots do on the planes? More automation for more systems. But what does he actually do beyond lobo-ing?

rAspbErryytEa SG

Gloater will you just STFU ?

you have the rights to comment but u don't have the rights to criticise people .Before u even start saying more ... Are you even a PILOT from any organisation urself ?So what if a SIA pilot does this while a RSAF pilot does that .They are still a profession that i believe all of us should at the very least respect.

RSAF pilots who cross-over to the commercial sector are big enough to make their own choices. Why should u bother or not if they make the right or wrong choices ?

u seem to have many friends .. how many of them i don't know.

Maybe u just hate us all pilots so much because u got axed during training or counldn't even qualify for a pilot slot . (Otherwise why would u have so many pilots friends ? RSAF also got , SIA also got )

(Btw , i passed my medical awaiting BMT already )

cheeze SG

Okay. I see your point. Just need to ask more cos i'm curious. Lets say a RSAF pilot starts from 23 and by 31 he should be a Maj (so he joined SAF for 8yrs). Earlier age to become SIA First Officer is 29 (after 2 yr training)+8 yrs experience= 37. Would the 37 yr old autopilot dude make as much as the 31 yr old military dude? Still, we're talking about a very big difference of 6 yrs even if they earn the same. I'd say based on the timeline (salary is compared by an age-based timeline as it presumes to rise with age), the commercial dude is paid less than a military pilot of the same age and paid less than military pilots up to 5-7 yrs younger than him?

to be a major at 31 abit challenging lah, because most guys are A level/poly holders, probably 33 where your contract is about to end is a better estimate. of course the scholars would already be majors by the time they hit 28?? so can't compare there. i would say that the 1st officer can make an equivalent or if not slightly more than the airforce dude. probably only penalised by age but what to do? they start at 26 wor. but a major would earn more than a 1st officer for sure, unless that 1st officer is very senior and about to make captain? maybe on par...

I've 30 yr old military pilot friends who say they make over $10K per mth. Can verify if its true?

.exactly 30? graduate? degree holder? fighter guy? let's say poly/a-level dude right, captain & cat A fighter pilot who should technically draw the highest salary. errrr, i think it's defnitely still shy of 5 digits. even one of my graduate colleagues didn't hit 5 digits before he left. hmmmm. so that 10K mark abit dubious unless they are Majors or even higher? let's not go into exact numbers for salary. anyway civil servants pay usually lower than private sector, excluding those ministers lah.

An experienced military pilot who retires at 45 to go to SIA, can he use the flying hours he clocked in RSAF and become a commercial Captain immediately?

eh, the hours refer to fixed-wing hours and whether you got multi-engine hours. so the transport guys have some advantages and those flying fighters too, especially those fighters with more than 1 engine. hehehee. they can use those hours if i am not wrong but only up to a certain % can be carried over. helicopter pilots, if they wanted to cross over, most of them either go through the whole training process or clock their own fixed wing hours/multi-engine hours privately. but definitely i am very sure that an airforce pilot that crosses over also has to go from 2nd officer to 1st and then to captain, but not sure if they take as long as the non-experienced guys who start at 26... but i think someone in SIA can answer this better. my info is all from coffee chats. hahaha but of course you are right, salary is not one of the main reason that ppl leave. many many factors....let's not go there.

Gloater SG

Gloater will you just STFU ?

RSAF pilots who cross-over to the commercial sector are big enough to make their own choices. Why should u bother or not if they make the right or wrong choices ?

u seem to have many friends .. how many of them i don't know.

(Btw , i passed my medical awaiting BMT already )

rAspbErryytEa you just STFU yourself.

Commercial or military pilots are not the only friends I have. I have many others in all sectors in Singapore and overseas. The reason you don't have friends, many or otherwise in different jobs is because you haven't even started your BMT yet and some of your friends are still not legally old enough to drink.

I have every right to comment because this is a forum and there is a freedom of speech. When the F did i 'criticise' people? you can't read? illiterate? I said it is not true that there is such a big disparity between group A and group B contrary to what many believed. I said it's not logically true looking at the criteria needed to become group A and group B, for people to say group B is harder to get in.

Too bad illiterate guys, unlike people with no dicks still have to serve NS. And too bad that while illiteracy can be corrected with age and self study, mental illness cannot.

Gloater SG

Serious ah? whats the proportion of A level/poly holders vs degree holders in RSAF, i'm curious? Afterall the proportion will affect one's entry incentive to go in as diploma holder. if there are 9 dip holder fighter pilot to only 1 degree holder, the incentive for a dip holder is very high. The person who told me is 31 this dec actually, Maj, cat A fighter. So he bluffing a bit? He also said he has very good bonuses up to 5 months the whole yr so his annual package is quite high and he can afford to buy a nice condo by 27, but his car damn beng leh, RX8. he said one drawback of commercial is you'll always not be in SG so it can be tough for those with family and kids like him who just had one now and another one on the way, although his pilot training does always take him to the France or US (i think) frequently.

cheeze SG

majority of people sign on after A levels/ poly, then a small number take a short sponsored study break for uni halfway through. i can't state whats the ratio of degree holders to non-degree holders but probably 1/3 or even 1/4 is a safe estimate. including scholars as part of the whole number. but whether or not you're a degree holder only affects your pay because if you're not a scholar, your route of advancement is the same as anyone else. it may be slightly faster than a non-grad, you may end up retiring at a higher rank also but only main difference is pay i guess. you do have a huge number of people who are A levels and opt not to go to uni and continue and serve til they retire or finish contract.

non-scholar Major at 31 is possible, but rare.. unless you work super hard lah and lucky that people support your promotion. but of course at age 31 barring any mishap, all good-performing scholars would have been major by then. because right up to LTC superscale, the promotions are all based on time and abit of merit involved i am sure.

bonus up to 5 mth!?!? our bonuses are civil service bonus. so whatever is declared by the govt is whatever we get lor. so have we heard any 5 mth bonuses in the recent times? usually you only hear 2 month or something right? but for SQ i have heard about 5 mth bonuses or more.

but of course if you are posted overseas definitely earn more because of the additional overseas allowances? plus smart investments and savings i am sure even someone with a stable income at 27 can afford a condo. i won't go so far as to say he is lying but he must be really doing very well n flying high in my opinion. good for your friend! maybe must get some tips from him. haha

eurofighter SG

777 Captains DO NOT make up SAI Captains. That is not the salary commanded by all SAI CAPTAINS . The bulk of SIA fleet are made of Boeing 747-400s and 30 Airbus A340-300s, not 777. Anyone who has taken SIA a few times knows this[/Quote]

If you can comment so much, I dont even know why you cant get this simple fact right. Yeah, everyone who has taken SQ SHOULD know that above 80% of the fleet is 777s. The rest is the 5 ultra long haul A340-500, A380s and an increasingly dwindling number of 747-400s. Your A340-300s are like what, retired 6 years ago?

Thats why the they used the 777 flight crew pay for comparison in the dispute.

teraexa SG

Thats why the they used the 777 flight crew pay for comparison in the dispute.

SAI 777 Captains DO NOT make up SAI Captains. That is not the salary commanded by all SAI CAPTAINS . The bulk of SIA fleet are made of Boeing 747-400s and 30 Airbus A340-300s, not 777. Anyone who has taken SIA a few times knows this.

Eh Mr Gloater, please get this right. You are doing a disservice by pointing to wrong facts. SIA has the world biggest fleet of B777s. 30 A340-300s? Dude, you mixed up A340-300s and A340-500s. Even then, the number of A340-300s SIA ordered is less than 20 and less than 10 were delivered. All were sold prior to 2002. ><

Besides, I do not know what is your problem regarding SIA that you have to make a big hoo-ha about. If you are interested to debate, I can point you to 2 more applicable forums:

Aviation Lounge

Singapore Aviation

Everyone has his or her own right to make certain decisions about their future. Not everyone takes money as seriously as you do. Some people are very interested in flying and I am certain that the money part, to them, is really of a secondary importance.

You have NO RIGHT, i repeat, NO RIGHT, to impose your views on others. I did not bother nailing you really down regarding the issues of SAF scholars. Now you are here to troll about SIA. If you've got grievances, just tell the ALPA-S. I believe they might bother listening to you if you are bored.

If ALPA-S are not making any loud noises recently, I don't see the need for you, a non-SIA pilot, to make noises here.

Really. It's time to stop quoting 'I have friends in... (insert relevant industry)". Unless you are in the industry, else your opinions have pretty much reliability as ours.

CD the pilot SG

Cool it guys, in my opinion, we should join cause of our passion not the money.

SIA is in the process of selling off their 747s. Currently the fleet comprises of A380s, B777s, A345s and the yet to be retired 747s.

On order are A333s (Leases), A350XWB, B787(forgot the actual model).

rAspbErryytEa SG

Besides, I do not know what is your problem regarding SIA that you have to make a big hoo-ha about. If you are interested to debate, I can point you to 2 more applicable forums:

Aviation Lounge

Singapore Aviation

If ALPA-S are not making any loud noises recently, I don't see the need for you, a non-SIA pilot, to make noises here.

Really. It's time to stop quoting 'I have friends in... (insert relevant industry)". Unless you are in the industry, else your opinions have pretty much reliability as ours.

+1+1 i totally argee with this ... GLOATER ! if u don't FLY shut UP!

there are many people out there who enjoy their jobs over money .

so what if he makes lesser money ! as long as they enjoy their jobs !

i have SYFC instructors who could have crossed-over to other places but chosed to stay because they have the passion for teaching us REGARDLESS OF PAY !

so YOU JUST SHUT UP .

bloodsucker SG

+1+1 i totally argee with this ... GLOATER ! if u don't FLY shut UP!

there are many people out there who enjoy their jobs over money .

so what if he makes lesser money ! as long as they enjoy their jobs !

i have SYFC instructors who could have crossed-over to other places but chosed to stay because they have the passion for teaching us REGARDLESS OF PAY !

so YOU JUST SHUT UP .

Actually if they didnt choose to do this, they would either be teaching back in airgrading, or transfer over to SIA or CAAS. My former instructor was an airgrading instructor, then he came over to syfc. He hated commercial flying cos of all the frigging automation, so he chose to do yfc cos he said at least he can get some actual flying. And just so u noe, I think his pay is higher as compared to when he transfer over to SIA.

Gloater SG

I asked him liao. He said he said 5 mths is the year's total (and not just the year end one which can only be 1-2 mths) and apparently SAF gives bonuses give in several different stages like some GLCs, in 3 or 4 components. So it's AWS + performance + fixed bonus.

Gloater SG

Thats why the they used the 777 flight crew pay for comparison in the dispute.

Oh really? " above 80% of the fleet is 777s"?

According to CD pilot, the current SAI fleet is

"A380s, B777s, A345s and the yet to be retired 747s.

On order are A333s (Leases), A350XWB, B787(forgot the actual model)."

So out of these, A380, B777, A345, A333, A350 and B787, you say that 777 makes up OVER 80% of its fleet?

Gloater SG

+1+1 i totally argee with this ... GLOATER ! if u don't FLY shut UP!

there are many people out there who enjoy their jobs over money .

so what if he makes lesser money ! as long as they enjoy their jobs !

i have SYFC instructors who could have crossed-over to other places but chosed to stay because they have the passion for teaching us REGARDLESS OF PAY !

so YOU JUST SHUT UP .

I never said that there are no "people who enjoy their jobs over money". I also never said that it's not ok to make "lesser money as long as they enjoy their jobs". Once again, the illiteracy issue is in your way. Why should someone who says something that you don't like "shut up"? This is not an actual question. It's rhetorical.

Like it or not, you can glorify SIA all you want. It will always be known nowadays as the airline with ugly stewardesses who think that they are Paris Hilton haha and it's only a matter of time that it goes under when it's already making a loss. thats why now have to charge a pittance of peanuts of USD$100 for exit row seats. Sad... http://www.straitstimes.com/ST+Forum/Story/STIStory_298885.html

cheeze SG

hmm, in that case yeah collectively the bonus is possible to hit that amount.

note that performance bonus is variable ; it ranges from zero to 0.5 to 2 mths if u did super well.

then u got some one time bonuses or market adjustments ....

then your annual bonus. so prob when he told you it was a GOOD year for him when he said 5 mths cause it doesn't happen every year. or unless he super high flyer then every year is a G$$D year.

damn... so lucky. haha.

CD the pilot SG

Oh really? " above 80% of the fleet is 777s"?

According to CD pilot, the current SAI fleet is

"A380s, B777s, A345s and the yet to be retired 747s.

On order are A333s (Leases), A350XWB, B787(forgot the actual model)."

So out of these, A380, B777, A345, A333, A350 and B787, you say that 777 makes up OVER 80% of its fleet?

Yes, the B777 makes up over 80% of the fleet. You can try wiki or SIA's website itself. Please get your facts right before you post.

A333s, A350 & B787 are all not yet delivered.

stellazio SG

31 years old major without degree? its damn hard..

and erm, there is no such thing as a 26 years old degree holder pilot unless you're a scholar.. most pilots less the scholars who decides to take up a degree course only gets to go uni after they get their Cat B which is around 27 years old.

mrblitzer21 SG

someone mentioned that SIA FO makes 4k a month? I believe they make alot more than that. If you refer to cheezers source, the one from airlinepilot.com entry salary is around 5-8k for 777 pilot, and 5-9K for 747 pilots. These are just basic salary. According to the same source from airlinepilots.com, and also from askcaptainlim.com( website is down right now due to hackers) FO makes about 4-6 K of allowances every month. That would add up to approximately 9-14K for SIA pilots. silkair pilots make a little less, while cargo pilots make a little more if im not wrong(due to the time they spend away from home). This would probably be slightly more than the 31 year old major. ( assuming the major makes 4-5k basic salary+ maximum for all 3 allowances) however its quite unlikely for a non scholar to make major at 31. Captain salary is also true from cheezer's source. With allowances, captains can make more than 20k a month.(10-15k basic+approximately 10k allowances) Also, SIA pilots fly more than 20-30 hours i believe, most of them fly around 70-80 hours. This makes sense if you think about it, because the legal limit they can fly is 100 hours a month, it wouldnt make sense to just employ them to fly 20-30.

btw cheezers, can u explain the difference between the pilot allowance, variable alowance and the flying allowance? lol

and also, for a more detailed breakdown of their salary, you can visit http://www.alpas.org/alpas/indcom/CA2005.pdf

this is the 2004 collective agreement between the pilots union and SIA. It has since expired, but the new numbers are definitely going to be approximately equal to the old ones.

oh ya and also, the same guy mentioned his friend got something like 5 months bonus? This is likely as i've read from another source, this one from a famous ex stewardess blog ranting about how her pilot boifriend gets 6 months of bonus. I can find the source and put it up if you want though its up to you to believe it.

and, the collective agreement right, the salary part starts from page 54/230 onwards. it also covers allowances, pay for other duties, promotion reward and alot of stuff. you can ask me if ur lazy to read cos i actually read the whole thing ( dont ask me why).

wonderamazement SG

*buzz sound. wrong answer, they are making money.

wonderamazement SG

Dude u rock. I have never liked those autopilots, and now u give me even more reason to dislike those fat white clowns.

you dislike them cos they can fly on autopilot?

call em clowns if you want but if you're intending on going overseas by rowing a boat, by all means.

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