COL Ishak is now COMD 6 Div

last SG · 2008-10-02T00:01:38+00:00

Chan CS better chance of COA... wat u guys think.... ??Anyone noes Chua Chwee koh, Chin Pei Chen, Goh kok Huat, Chan Chun Sing...?Any1 noe their link or conn...

Gloater SG

Another thing. This Lim Teck Yin is from Commando?! it's very true that commando officers very very hard to be general. That's because Commandos are way too specialised, and they're like in their own little world, their own little clique with their own spirit blah blah, totally ostracised and detached from the SAF. They're part of the family but like a branch so different from the rest, similar to that odd eccentric sibling at home that doesn't mix with the rest.To be a general, one has to have a wide horizon view of the organisation. That is why it's called general, right?> to be a generalist hahaha. anyway commando almost impossible to be general this urban legend hor, is true to a certain extent but not 100% true. This just means it decreases chances lor. This is why you will find only commando SAFOS like what? every 5 yrs?? Cos SAFOS sign on to be Generals. In 1997 batch got one Lien Choong Luen. He should be a CO now. I think in early 2000+ there was another one. They are the exceptions I know cos they're even more siao-on than the normal SAFOS siao-on and truly believe in commando pride.

Gloater SG

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Gloater SG

wow my topic generated some interesting discussions indeed.

just a few things i wanna ask... i believe Lim Chuan Poh is from arty? And I agree the COA position will never be in reach of a farmer. The SAF has too many darling SAFOS and SAFOS cum President's scholars to promote to the appt, as such we will almost never (and this I dare say!) see the light of a farmer COA - unless in times of operation/war.

Having been under the command of Hugh Lim, I can't tell you much whether he is a talented general, but I shall always rem him for his moustache.

Oh, and trust me, I would prefer a COA from the Combat Support Arms ( Engineers, Signals, Arty) as their training and tours allow them to see the wider scope of the army from an junior appointment. As compared to a Commando officer, for example, he is perhaps very well trained in small unit combat but is hardly exposed to inter unit or brigade level ops till he reaches a senior rank. of course there will be exceptions, but this is on average.

Lim Chuan Poh is Infantry. Not Arty. Please la I am very sure about that. you can ask him any of the SAFOS who are in their mid 20s now. When they got their scholarship, it was Lim Chuan Poh who gave it to them, if you calculate by timeline. I am super sure lah. This is what the SAFOS tell me. I know at least one that was influenced by him and chose Infantry also. Pls read http://www.a-star.edu.sg/a_star/164-Biography?iid=60

In light/operations of war? You sound jealous. Do you honestly think God made everyone equal? Then you must be as clever as Einstein cos you are both humans? The sooner you face up to you are, the better it is for yourself. Delusions can be deadly for your mental health. Its very simple. you only have to answer me whether you think you are better than a PS. if you dare say you are, then we proceed from there. if you admit you're not as most sane non-shameless people do, I made my point.

Hugh Lim's moustache everyone knows lah not just you. You can't tell whether he is talented cos you never worked with him?? 1) Just because he has a moustache doesn't mean he is not talented. 2) And oh, if i have never worked with him, I'd take it as he is definitely better than I'll ever be. Simply because of what he has achieved and who he is and who I am. A NOBODY. Simply because he's a chief of staff and I am a nobody. But then again, I concede not everyone has so much self-awareness like me lah... sad...

As for your last paragraph, its common knowledge in the army. Even for a SAFOS sign on commando decreases chance of becoming general by about half. This is what I feel. So for farmers, is infinitely many times worse. You can tell simply by the no. of commando BG ever.

This is the order of most ideal arms to be in for career progression of SAFOS to be General

1) Combat arms

2) Sissy combat support

3) Commando/Logistics

This is the order of most ideal arms to be in for career progression for army officers

1) Combat arms

2) Commandos (at least theygarang image, if you do well enough as a CDO, you can be brigade commander)

3) Sissy combat support

4) Logistics

Gloater SG

Gloater: "All I can tell you is that the COA after Lim Neo Chian onwards has never been and will never be a farmer."

Okay lah.......noted.

Sorry I made an English error. It should be ""All I can tell you is that the COA SINCE Lim Neo Chian onwards has never been and will never be a farmer."

Since, not after. Because Lim Neo Chian is a SAFOS.

There was no one born after the 80s who doesn't know this. Even 19 yr old NSFs also know. You didn't know???!

gd4u SG

This is the order of most ideal arms to be in for career progression of SAFOS to be General

1) Combat arms

2) Sissy combat support

3) Commando/Logistics

This is the order of most ideal arms to be in for career progression for army officers

1) Combat arms

2) Commandos (at least theygarang image, if you do well enough as a CDO, you can be brigade commander)

3) Sissy combat support

4) Logistics

OH, Sissy combat support. very well then. If u have the chance, please kill all ur enemies by ur own bullet, never mind the sissy arty fire. And let ur CSS elements ride through the minefield and other obstacles ... it is ok, u know, afterall, it is only a 12% chance that ur CSS elements will get blown up by mines. Heaven will also maintain and protect ur GSM network in war, i believe ... ...

Gloater SG

of cos combat cannot function optimally without combat support. but if you were the CDF and had to choose only 1 between 2 due to constraints (troops dead), obviously you choose combat. combat can still function without support but combat support ceases its meaning of existence without combat arms. they are there to support and aid for optimal.

its the training that makes combat support sissy. haha i mean besides combat engineer, the rest are well known to be slack physically, no need to do route march, run and no need to chiong sua

flash9933 SG

Lim Teck Yin was trained as a Commando. He moved on to be converted as Armour officer about 10 years ago ... as such, he managed to climb further up on his SAF career ladder now ...

skythewood SG

wow. i am a combat engineer. so i was only that close from having a slack combat support vocation? that sucks!

Gloater SG

Lim Teck Yin was trained as a Commando. He moved on to be converted as Armour officer about 10 years ago ... as such, he managed to climb further up on his SAF career ladder now ...

I did ask a combat arms scholar before since he's so siao on why he never sign on with commando like Lien Choong Luen. He said sign on as commando not much different from the rest cos only up to Battalion. No commando brigade. After CO tour, a commando officer is taken out and has to go to non commando units liao in order to proceed. So he said an officer's journey as a commando even if sign on at the start as commando ends by 30 yr old (if he's a scholar). So no different at all. He said : "Lien's not much different from the rest of us. Only first few yrs. chey!"

Gloater SG

wow. i am a combat engineer. so i was only that close from having a slack combat arms vocation? that sucks!

yes its generally understood among combat officers are combat support arms are sissy. such as arty, signals are the two sissiest....

Gedanken SG

First you say:

The previous COAs need not even be chief guards ... The common denominator among them is that they are clever.

Then you say

it's very true that commando officers very very hard to be general. That's because Commandos are way too specialised, and they're like in their own little world, their own little clique with their own spirit blah blah, totally ostracised and detached from the SAF. They're part of the family but like a branch so different from the rest, similar to that odd eccentric sibling at home that doesn't mix with the rest.To be a general, one has to have a wide horizon view of the organisation. That is why it's called general, right?> to be a generalist hahaha.

Then you flip back on yourself and say:

After CO tour, a commando officer is taken out and has to go to non commando units liao in order to proceed. So he said an officer's journey as a commando even if sign on at the start as commando ends by 30 yr old (if he's a scholar). So no different at all.

Can you make up your mind?

Gloater SG

First you say:

Then you say

Then you flip back on yourself and say:

Can you make up your mind?

I do not see anything opposing element. Pls explain. You just quote what i said separately then claim it opposes? i dun see it. Pls explain.

Gedanken SG

If you don't see how you've contradicted yourself, then you're obviously too busy babbling and trying to get on other people's nerves to actually make a sensible point.

Do yourself a favour, read through what you've written and try to understand what you've said. I don't hold a lot of hope that you'll succeed since you're obviously saying things just for the sake of saying something/anything, but at the very least it'll keep you out of the hair of people who actually care about the topic at hand.

Gloater SG

you don't understand something =/= make my opinion wrong. u read carefully again and come back to me.

gd4u SG

I think Gloater has still failed to understand the term "combat support" ... U seems to be telling me that, between a rifleman and between a Gunner/Signaller, u will choose the rilfeman whom is not trained in Arty guns and poorly skilled with signal equipment. Luckily, u are not a regular ... .. Am I safe to say that?

I will take a gunner or signaller whom is 'not as well trained as' the rifleman in terms of firefight. I am no gunner or signaller. But i am pretty sure that for arty, are are certain tatics in defense ... and trust me, without my signaller, means i will go and fight with that darned signal set ??? My CO was so afraid that there weren't enuff signallers with him outfield. We had to even "T-loan" signallers. If u think signallers were suppsoedly so slack ... will such a situation occur? Combat support is vital. While Combat Support are supposedly "not as proficient" in gunfights, without it, any combat arms unit is crippled.

I think u have failed to see how combat support arms function in the 3 stages of pre-ops, ops phase and post-ops phase ... While in ops phase, Arty might seems more relaxed ... but both at post-ops and pre-ops ... there are much more stuff to be done. The same goes for signallers. I think u might not know that signallers go through a 40km route march in FBO with their signal sets and spare batteries ...

I am not sure if this applies to the other comabt arms as well. But there is saying that "When if is only left wiht the CO and the Pioneer Platoon, the CO has to protect the pioneer platoon" ...

Gedanken SG

you don't understand something =/= make my opinion wrong. u read carefully again and come back to me.

Figured as much you'd need to be spoonfed, junior.

The previous COAs need not even be chief guards ... The common denominator among them is that they are clever.

...

Well and good. So a CDO officer, if he's as clever as his contemporaries in the other units, can finish his CO tour, gain a wider view of the rest of the army through rotations in non commando units and down the track have as much of a shot at COA as an Armour, Infantry or Engineer officer who goes through other units to broaden his experience. By your argument, take an officer with the right qualities (being clever in your grossly oversimplified paradigm), rotate him though other units after his CO tour as you already acknowledge takes place, and his being a CDO isn't a hinderance.

That's all fine until you come up with drivel like:

That's because Commandos are way too specialised, and they're like in their own little world, their own little clique with their own spirit blah blah, totally ostracised and detached from the SAF. They're part of the family but like a branch so different from the rest, similar to that odd eccentric sibling at home that doesn't mix with the rest.To be a general, one has to have a wide horizon view of the organisation.

So make up their mind - are they rotated through other units (thereby getting a wide view of the overall organisation), or do they stay in their own little CDO world and get "way too specialised"? If a CDO officer completes tours in other units, by definition he can't be too specialised.

Now is that simple enough, or should I draw it in crayon and get your mummy to help you with the big words?

Seems you're too busy calling other folks sissy to realise that you're being stupid. Now the adults want to talk, so run along and play, okay pumpkin? I'm done with you.

Gloater SG

I said being chief guards does not make you a COA contender because only 1 COA so far is from guards. the rest are from other combat arms, and 1 is even from combat support. the common denominator is that they are clever.

i said commando will decrease the chance of becoming a general because generals require helicopte view. commandoes are cloistered for as long as they remain as commando. it is not impossible, but it decreases the chances of someone as opposed to if he didn't go commando at all. Gettit?

only commando is singled out because ONLY they are cloistered from the rest.That's why I said commandos do suffer a disadvantage, but that DOES NOT contradict how BESIDES commandoes (the only exception), the rest of the combat and combat support arms you see many scholars equally distributed. And you see COAs who have come from both combat and combat support arms. Except commando. Gettit?

So besides commando, the rest of the arms pretty much equal chance and pretty much does not make a difference. Clever can liao. Thats wat I said. Want to die die go commando also can. Not impossible, just decrease his own chance against his non CDO SAFOS rivals all things being equal thats all.

I went on to say that for a SAFOS best career by sequence is combat, followed by combat support, followed by commando. Its simple. You have seen most COAs from combat arms, and 1 from combat support. None from Commando.

then i related to you what a combat scholar who did not go to commando said. he's speaking from his perspective as a SAFOS. who normally become CO in their early 30s, so for them even the ones who go CDO only have a different route from their counterparts for the first 5-8 yrs. But of cos you can say that still makes a difference. They may be perceived as having disadvantage compared to a SAFOS who was in armour or infantry all the way from age 23.

I was offering the view point of someone else. To me choosing commando will decrease chance for career advancement for a scholar. It will be harder for him if all things being equal he rival with another scholar who did not go commando. he will lose out. But it is not impossible for him to get 1 star.

I stood by my points and offered the viewpoint of someone else I heard. How is that contradicting? Do you read newspapers?

Or you are one of those who only read the cyberlosers' essays aka myopic, one-sided JOBLESS socio-political bloggers (blogging losers) thus too used to one trick pony and one track propaganda style of writing? Must be lor...

Gedanken SG

Clever can liao.

If clever can liao, how does being a Commando change the guy's chances?

Need me to bring out the crayons for this simple point?

Keep talking shit. You're funny.

Gloater SG

Anyway most of us normal thinking humans know this: to know what's the possibility/impossibility, and if possible, then what probability of something happening, very logical. Just look at HISTORICAL TRENDING.

When you never seen a farmer COA/CNV/CAF before, means farmer got no chance/cannot be COA/CNV/CAF.

When you never saw a commando COA before, means commando got no chance to be COA.

When you see a commando get BG only once every yrs, means commando got the least/poorest chance of getting BG.

When you see 3-4 COA from combat arms, 1 from combat support, zero from commando, means if i am a SAFOS I choose according to this order: combat best chance, combat support second, last commando.

When I see every yr scholars go to equal distribution of arms, 1 scholar in each arm (inf, armour, guards, combat engin, signals, arti) except commando, everyone can draw their own conclusions. it means commando got decrease chance. the rest quite equal IF YOU ARE SMART.

That is life. And thats how people know things and how scientists conduct experiments and statisticians churn analyses and logicians create theories.

For most of us, I don't know about you, we don't need to go far to see the truth cos most of the time it stares at us in our faces.

Gloater SG

If clever can liao, how does being a Commando change the guy's chances?

Need me to bring out the crayons for this simple point?

Keep talking shit. You're funny.

It decreases because it is cloistered!!!! They dun even get to know what the rest of SAF operates. If cdo got all the way up to brigade/div level and CDOs stay in there all the way to DIVs, confirmed dunno anything else about SAF. be what general?? general worker more like it!!!!

Are you so simple you can't understand ah? got study last time or not??

if CDO is super smart IQ 160 president's scholar type vs someone very stupid in armour, then he is still ahead of the person.

if CDO is super smart IQ 160 president's scholar type vs an armour/inf super smart IQ 160 president's scholar type for the COA post, he will be disadvantaged cos he was in CDO and that will be his loss of edge! gettit??

Last time got study, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL?!

No wonder you need crayons.. gosh. I swear some gifted 14 yr old kids in sec schools easily got ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL when it was told to them.

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