Why NS? [ Pre-Enlist POV ]

last SG · 2008-05-28T13:35:07+00:00

looking at all your posts, i feel so guilty for downgrading temporarily from pes A to C2L1. i was supposed to be enlisting into commandos on 11th july but n...

Fatum SG

Pretty amusing how you twist your words and leave out some details to favour your situation. Your e-pride must be humongous right now.

yes, I suppose so ....

but pray tell anyways ... why would the opinions of foreigners towards NS matter ? ....

wrt to mothers, grandparents, females etc ... do you mean to tell me, your set of family members think the same way as you do too ? ....

red_amoeba SG

Not only SAF needs to do the education, the various organisations and agencies need to have a concerted effort to do so.

domonkassyu SG

But what the heck is this? 'If a country were to attack Singapore, we don't even stand a chance'? What makes you think that? If we ever go to war, we DO have a chance if we stand up and fight. One of the guarantees to Singapore's own independence is the SAF. And the only way we can ever keep the SAF strong is through conscription.

chance? if the invader is kind enough to send in only infantrymen equip with sticks and harsch language den yes we stand a pretty good chance..however,most probably they will send us million dollars worth of missile to chew on...by the time their infantrymen step foot..sg is already a scrap yard..

You've totally lost the concept of National Service. It is not just to prepare for war. It is also to deter others from making war upon us. And the secondary effect of helping our citizens unite is very, very true..... in fact, that was the main reason why the Malaysians decided to come up with their own 'National Service'.

correction..it is only to showcase prospective investors that we have this and that..think of mocca.com the muscle guy showing off his hdb flat..( hi,i have a safe country to invest. its army is clean and green with few big guns. the missile is over there..the tank is over there..check out my matching cannons..)

unitedness??go to any barracks of saf,spf,scdf..chinese 1 side, malay 1 side,indian 1 side if enough..very united..

But boh pian; someone has to do the job. If I don't do the job, you don't do the job, and everyone else feels the same way, then who is going to defend Singapore?

y do we have regulars to sign up again??

If there was no National Service.... would you still have the freedom to sit in front of your computer to whine about it?

thats a opportunity cost question...we never know..

i did my time(sounds like come out from jail) in spf..im lucky im there cuz at least i learnt some stuff..but for the rest of fellow sg males..2 yrs is alot of time to be wastin in meaningless stuff..

NS is for everyone NS is a crime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK3wi2Tt4Pc

watch this for a good laugh..

Fatum SG

NSmen are cannon fodder to by time for famiLEE to escape in times of war

if you live in a block of HDB flats ....

and the unit next to you catches fire .... do you say, fark it, I shall not help, it's not mine anyways, why should I help protect it ? ....

or do you say, damm, it's my block too ... the fire will come to consume mine eventually ? ....

kopiosatu SG

if the country lets everyone knows the truth about having a military, our neighbours would feel stupid.

i wouldn't even bother about commercial propaganda just to boost people's morales

IF there's a war and someone is shooting at you. let's see who won't shoot back just because their morale is low.

kopiosatu SG

NSmen are cannon fodder to by time for famiLEE to escape in times of war

who cares about them.

u don't have friends that u served NS with? u want them to die easily?

i dun give a shit about the Lee empire, i'd like to see them burn in hell.

domonkassyu SG

Dear MS if u still monitor this thread..may i ask u a qn..i posed this qn to my spf regular when he is on stand by for the mas thingy..

HAVE YOU REGRETTED JOINING THE FORCE??hehehe..all the reservists and nsf had a good laugh after the qn...

kilua SG

I disagree Singapore would lose a war wage against our neighbours. Although my knowledge of the military is limited, i would think

1.Singapore has air superiority against our neighbours.

2.Having air superiority would allow control of the sea.

3.Control of the air and sea means you can drop troops anywhere to strike your enemy.Not to mention you can use Air to land strikes.

Numbers may not be as important as quality. Besides Singapore has a larger army than our neighbours.

(Played too much real time strategy games hehehe..)

But if Singapore would lose, I would support Singapore from overseas. One has to be pragmatic =).

comberbache SG

If you abolish NS, what do you propose to replace it? The security of a nation is best entrusted to its people, to its citizens. Not to just an impoverished minority or those of mercenarial intent.

In my very humble opinion, the security of a country should be in the hands of citizen-soldiers. (Out of neccessity there will have to be some professionals, as well). But leaving it entirely in the hands of professionals generates problems, including but not limited to:

1) High cost: Duh.

2) Mercenarial Attitudes: citizen soldiers even though they may b!tch about NS, do it out of a sense of duty. Many professionals do it for the $$$. (IMHO)

3) Abuse of power: More cover ups of incidents. Threatening the public instead of serving it.

4) Etc.

Meanwhile, many of the commonly cited disadvantages of citizen armies are exaggerated. For example, professional armies aren't neccessarily "better." I've worked with the U.S. military for instance, and from what I've seen, soldiers are soldiers. One swinging d!ck is as ugly as another. Just because a 18 year old kid signs a 2-3 year contract in order to get money for college and reap nice benefits, doesn't automatically make him "better" than a conscript who enters NS out of a sense of duty (even if the conscript does cuss at his government).

Of course the system in SIngapore is not perfect. But you have to admit it is still better than many other countries that use consciption (Russia, Korea, etc).

red_amoeba SG

I disagree with that Singapore would lose a war if wage against the neighbours. Although my knowledge of the military is limited, i would think Singapore has air superiority against our neighbours.

Having air superiority would allow the control of the sea.

Control of the air and sea means you can drop troops anywhere to strike your enemy.

Numbers may not be as important as quality. Besides Singapore has a larger army than our neighbours.

But if Singapore would lose, I would support Singapore from overseas. One has to be pragmatic =).

why don't you come back and take up arms to protect the country instead of supporting it overseas?

domonkassyu SG

if you live in a block of HDB flats ....

and the unit next to you catches fire .... do you say, fark it, I shall not help, it's not mine anyways, why should I help protect it ? ....

or do you say, damm, it's my block too ... the fire will come to consume mine eventually ? ....

very interesting scenario that harmonize with my idea..

if the neighbour unit is on fire..most likely burnin fast n furious and spreading.we have to keep it down and with a concerted effort,we keep it under control..(the invaders with sticks and harsh languages is like the fire)

however, if your hdb block is hit by a meteorite BAMM..and any remaining part is already burning and melting..would you be able to put the flames under control?

(the case where we are showered by million dollars worth missles)

domonkassyu SG

If you abolish NS, what do you propose to replace it? The security of a nation is best entrusted to its people, to its citizens. Not to just an impoverished minority or those of mercenarial intent.

In my very humble opinion, the security of a country should be in the hands of citizen-soldiers. (Out of neccessity there will have to be some professionals, as well).

suddenly makes me wanna mass town peasants and on militia and take on the other unit in WC3...

our saf is but a huge scale militia in truth..soldiers fight for gold..militia fight for homeland..

Fatum SG

if you live in a block of HDB flats ....

and the unit next to you catches fire .... do you say, fark it, I shall not help, it's not mine anyways, why should I help protect it ? ....

or do you say, damm, it's my block too ... the fire will come to consume mine eventually ? ....

very interesting scenario that harmonize with my idea..

however, if your hdb block is hit by a meteorite BAMM..and any remaining part is already burning and melting..would you be able to put the flames under control?

(the case where we are showered by million dollars worth missles)

let me put it in another way ...

you live in a village in ancient china ... periodically, the bandits will come down from the hills and rape and plunder at will .... you see them plundering your farthest neighbour's house and dragging away his wife and daughters ....

do you say, fark it, that's lau lee's house .... that's not mine and I hate him anways, I'm not going to help him defend him and his women's asses ..... and wait for your turn ...

or do you round up the other men in your neighbourhood and have a go at them with sickles and pitchforks ? ....

or you're saying, like the TS, that you'll wait for your turn and let your wife and daughters be dragged away into the barn ? ...

red_amoeba SG

If you abolish NS, what do you propose to replace it? The security of a nation is best entrusted to its people, to its citizens. Not to just an impoverished minority or those of mercenarial intent.

1) High cost: Duh.

2) Mercenarial Attitudes: citizen soldiers even though they may b!tch about NS, do it out of a sense of duty. Many professionals do it for the $$$. (IMHO)

3) Abuse of power: More cover ups of incidents. Threatening the public instead of serving it.

4) Etc.

Of course the system in SIngapore is not perfect. But you have to admit it is still better than many other countries that use consciption (Russia, Korea, etc).

I have no issues regarding conscriptions especially if you need to gather enough bodies to form the deterrant force. Perfectly, the security of the country lies in no one else but the citizens. But the big issue is, if the citizens are to be sweating and shedding blood for the security and well being of the country, the citizens must first believe in doing so. Probabaly our fathers and forefathers see this and feel this but my generation and those further down? But look at today environment, we see growing resentment that foreigners coming here to compete on all fronts. We are facing high costs and pressured wages. The need is to make Singaporeans feel Singaporeans - greater emphasis and favoritism be shown to Singaporeans. There need to have concerted effort from all around to do so, just a few of us writing in this forum is not sufficient.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

There will be some jokers who simply don't want to serve and no amount of talking to them will convince them otherwise, this is just part and parcel of conscription.

Unfortunately Singapore's current state did not simply arise because we are rich and capable, it arose because we had a credible armed force to make sure we are a stable and viable place for investors and companies to set foot in here. Politics aside there is the very real issue of security and believe me if it wasn't for the deterrance provided by a credible military we would have been arm-twisted into making a lot of deals not favourable to us.

Simply put, at the end of the day when all the bullets start flying your money isn't going to be worth squat, what matters will be the ability to show your attacker a bad time and that has to be covered first before you can really say what you have achieved is yours.

I don't really see what's so bad about NS seriously. I mean yes it was a really crappy experience and times and we did a lot of pointless things, but at the end of the day it made me a tougher person and taught me to take care of myself. Two years behind the girls? So what? You're still with the guys. Suck it up soldier.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

double

Fatum SG

that I agree perfectly too ..... but that's a question of politics, which, of course, is up to us to change, really .... but that's another story ...

regardless, we all have to understand that NS is really about us ....

when war comes, we are not really defending the million other foreigners that happens to be here too .... but defending what's ours .... see my analogy above ...

domonkassyu SG

let me put it in another way ...

do you say, fark it, that's lau lee's house .... that's not mine and I hate him anways, I'm not going to help him defend him and his women's asses ..... and wait for your turn ...

or do you round up the other men in your neighbourhood and have a go at them with sickles and pitchforks ? ....

or you're saying, like the TS, that you'll wait for your turn and let your wife and daughters be dragged away into the barn ? ...

again harmonize if you understand...if the bandits come in,militia is well trained and equipped..got fight to enjoy liao.(again the harsh language n stick thingy)

when the bandits come plunder using ranged attacks..burning u up before u gt the chance to say "huh"? no matter how well trained or well equipped ur militia is,nothing can be done when they are already a part of scorched earth..

kilua SG

why don't you come back and take up arms to protect the country instead of supporting it overseas?

I am trying to be pragmatic. The country is pragmatic in treating its citzens so it ought to be repaid with pragmatism. Its better to contribute money from abroad if Singapore is going to lose. If i stay and be captured, who is going to contribute funds from abroad? =)

Fatum SG

let me put it in another way ...

do you say, fark it, that's lau lee's house .... that's not mine and I hate him anways, I'm not going to help him defend him and his women's asses ..... and wait for your turn ...

or do you round up the other men in your neighbourhood and have a go at them with sickles and pitchforks ? ....

or you're saying, like the TS, that you'll wait for your turn and let your wife and daughters be dragged away into the barn ? ...

again harmonize if you understand...if the bandits come in,militia is well trained and equipped..got fight to enjoy liao.(again the harsh language n stick thingy)

this holds true for any country neh ? ... remember the cold war ? .... with mutually assured destruction on both sides of the fence ... thousands of missiles pointed at each other ... did any party say, fark it, why bother with having an army, it's pointless anyways ? ...

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