ICT callups unfair?

smart_idiot SG

I'm studying in SIM now, and I've heard of 3 cases recently where the guys were called up for high-key ICT during their school terms. They were not allowed to defer due to:
1. Having less than 5 days of lessons per week, and
2. Having less than 20 hours of lessons per week.

I find it quite unfair to these people who are called up for ICT during school terms. I don't think this happens to students from NUS, NTU and SMU. I have friends from those uni, and they have less than 5 days of lessons/week and less than 20 hours of lesson/week too. It feels as though students from private uni are being unfairly treated. Now I'm worried about being called up too, for even though the lesson time per week may seem little, but quite alot is covered during the lectures, and the school fees are really ex.

de_middle SG

eh u clone of stupid_idiot ar Laughing

blitzonic SG

Technically speaking, those in govt unis aren't exempted too. What happens instead is that they're grouped together with IHL-designated units as much as possible, with the COs timing the first few ICTs around their school vacations. I guess that means SIM & other private unis aren't deemed IHLs ...

BTW Student-reservists on industrial attachments during term break must be released for ICTs too, if their schedules clash. Interns & part-time workers must also quit to attend the callups.

Some more, units like mine made it an emphasis to arrow undergrads as recall i/cs (area i/c, not detachment i/c) so we must occasionally cut class to go back for mob briefings too.

Suck thumb, lah.

LazerLordz SG

It’s always been a problem.

maggot SG

Why don't make the NSmen book for their ICT like the IPPT system? Idea Very Happy

Like that will be a lot happier right? Mr. Green

dumbdumb! SG

i had no problems with deferment.

yay to scdf.

leddy SG

If you are on industrial attachment can deter la. IA affects your grades coz u are assessed on your attendance and performance, no attendence means no performance means lower grades and lower GPA.

So far all my friends who have IA and clashed with ICT all managed to defer, even for high keys. Your unit will normally let you go if you go down on the day and talk to the CO and show him the certified letters from school and employer. The problem is NS men centre handles deferment poorly.
When I went overseas exchange, I had to apply 2 times for deferment b4 it was approved.

If you want to defer and you have a reasonably valid reason, you really need to make an effort with your deferment, like apply early and apply again if it fails, worst case on the ICT day go down see CO and show letters. NS should understand that as a full-time student, your committment is not to NS but to the country. Education is also important for your country. You should never compromise your grades and education for ICT, it doesnt make sense, govt pay alot directly or indirectly towards your education too.

BrUtUs SG

yes it is unfair... if u wanna escape then overload ur timetable lo...

Spartans SG

Ya, I kanna detachment 2IC for my unit next recall manning. Anyway what is the difference between area IC and detachment IC?

For my reservist unit, some of my unit mates applied for Dec ICT deferment because of final year projects. All applications were being rejected by the CO. My friends were rather pissed off as they find it tough to juggle between FYPs and ICT.

thoreldan SG

i'm from SIM too..

this year my in-camp finish one week before my exam starts.

almost crash with exam man...luckily still got one week to study

smart_idiot SG

But isn't all deferment applications sent to the CO for approval? Hes the one who signs all the rejection letters etc, so I don't think seeing him will make alot of difference.
Sometimes I think its funny how they expect you to contribute/sacriface for your country, yet they don't even extend a small favour to you.

Spartans SG

That is why some people said " Singapore is a better place for Foreign Talents than Singaporeans." How ironic. Confused

smart_idiot SG

you didn't apply for deferment? or did it get rejected? hope your exams weren't too affected. Wink

blitzonic SG

So far all my friends who have IA and clashed with ICT all managed to defer, even for high keys. Your unit will normally let you go if you go down on the day and talk to the CO and show him the certified letters from school and employer. The problem is NS men centre handles deferment poorly.
When I went overseas exchange, I had to apply 2 times for deferment b4 it was approved.

Not convinced. The CO can still say no -- & I believe the law will back him up all the way. Can't find a NTU equivalent, but NUS's stand is clearcut: Point 7(c) in http://www.eng9.nus.edu.sg/ep/IA_intro.jsp

What you're saying is to report for ICT as per normal & then beg your CO to release you on the spot. Sure, I've witnessed these cases before -- even with Hokkien peng who'd turned up with their bosses & they pleaded like crazy in front of everyone during in-processing at the auditorium. The CO can be swayed either way, but I think he retains the authority to say no.

That said, IMO it won't reflect well on the CO's organizational skills, though. The IA schemes have been around a long time & gone through a lot of finetuning to mesh with reservist obligations -- even given the more kiam-chye modular courses these days -- & a CO can always mimic how his predecessor or other IHL units timed their ICTs.

For example, I just had a look at both unis' academic calendars. Both shall end their IAs by 20 June or so, while their regular term breaks extend (from early May) till the the 27 July-1 Aug week. As such, there shall be a 5-week window available for IHL units to conduct their ICTs (typically 3 weeks for high keys). Quite systematic & plenty of time, lah ~lol~ At least no more March lobang like in my time, who'd tio ICT immediately after Feb exams just so my bladdy CO can fit it "last minute" into the extant SAF workyear (April to April).

Ya, I kanna detachment 2IC for my unit next recall manning. Anyway what is the difference between area IC and detachment IC?

Not sure I can reveal all online, but then my experience was a long time ago (the days of pagers & landphones). To approximate in very general terms: an area IC commands detachment ICs living in one part of the island, & they each in turn are accountable for unit reservists living in their particular constituency or HDB estate neighborhoods. Upon silent mobilisation, if he can't contact his detachment ICs, he must do their duties for them & contact the men directly. If they're not contactable either, he must go down to their house & deliver the notice (& stick sticker) personally.

Can't win either way -- If you stay in the East, you may be in charge of 75 men cuz it's so densely populated. If you stay in the West (last time), you may be in charge of only 20 but a lot of them can live in very ulu places (Yew Tee to Neo Tiew, even though they're in the LCK-Ama Keng area, might as well be Batu Pahat-Kola Tinggi ~lol~). At least the unit indented a Land Rover for me during my 1st year. Later on, when I was told to take cabs & then claim expenses, I realized I didn't have $100 ready & resorted to calling my people up pre-manning & bluffing them about likely activation & must thus stay contactable ~lol~

BrUtUs SG

ask them complain lo...

jianfish9 SG

Write letter or see your MP.

Thats what they are so highly paid for right. If you desperate they really work wonders when they shoot letter.

smart_idiot SG

actually not true... my friend asked mp for help, but it still got rejected.

blitzonic SG

Keep in mind organizational needs, from the CO's standpoint. The first 2-3 ICTs are crucial for every ORDing unit (whether IHL or not) since it is self-reliant for the first time. For the commanders, there's no more regulars or farmers/scholars to apprentice behind. For the men, some of them are arrowed departmental i/cs or recall i/cs for the first time.

More often than not, various personnel from elsewhere are posted in too: recycled lao jiaos, holding-list lobos, make-up in-campers, IHL undergrads, etc. A lot of trial & error during this period, & everyone seeks to find out what works best for them.

Correspondingly, the unit has to establish an identity too &, as such, a high standard of regimentation is enforced & the fullest troop stength mustered every time.

shinkansen83 SG

Mr. Green Ha ha don't be silly bro, that's not possible. To plan for the ICTs, there is a lot of preparation to do. Like, Training programmes, indenting of ammo, bidding of training area like: ranges, IMT and live firing area and still got administrative work also.

So you think is easy like what you said?

soulwinner SG

I wish i won’t be called up for ict during the first 5 year after i ord