Rangers orbat

last SG · 2007-12-17T16:15:36+00:00

MINDEF webbie has some info on the course i think. it's 65 days, and it includes very exacting and demanding program - to be trained in small group tactics...

Short Ninja SG

You dont have to be airborne qualified to attend the Ranger course and rapelling is not part of Airborne training.And yes,have to indent tonners because that it usually how trainees are inserted Mr. Green

blitzonic SG

what is the use of going through the course if Rangers are not part of our ORBAT

It's more of a leadership course, like OCS. Ranger training primarily means Ranger school (like the US version) -- you learn the tactics, master the terrains, test your endurance, etc. -- &, after passing out, you adapt the acquired skills according to your unit/formation.

Will your skills come into handy if you are just a regular unit OC, for example?

Why not? The curriculum is traditionally "light" infantry in focus &, in this context, always applicable to paratroopers, Marines, special forces & any other RDF outfit (airmobile, seaborne, Mountain/Ski troops).

We don't need dedicated Ranger units cuz their modern ops can be executed by our specialized units: CDO (covert, recon), GDS (RDF), SAF-SOF, RSN-SWG, PCG-STS (SOC-type missions), et al.

will4 SG

So in other words, passing the ranger course is an important factor n for those red beret never clear ranger course, will they posted out of the red

beret formation? Are reservist eligibel to go for the ranger course?

Icemoon SG

But that is not what is advertised in Pioneer.

According to Pioneer, the guys have to carry the zodiac? boat to pass out. This and other group trainings are quite useless for company commanders.

Will the OC help carry your combat load in the battlefield?
Who is the OC buddy in the battlefield?

In short, what does teamwork mean to the OC?

Icemoon SG

I heard Ranger course is tougher than SOF selection, in fact it is the toughest course in the SAF.

What a waste if some of those guys languish in an armour unit, for example.

edwin3060 SG

The Ranger course not only teaches skills that can be applied at the small unit level but a mindset and mental toughness that is useful anywhere. Also, I think that the Ranger course is becoming more noticed because both COA and Chief Armour are Rangers. I have seen an Infantry Ranger so I know its possible Laughing Hope I get the chance to go.

Short Ninja SG

Ranger course used to be only for regulars but although some NS men have attended so far never heard of reservists intake and never will.There are many opportunites for a regular CDO to clear this course unless he is downgraded permanently .In this case, he might as well not wear the Red Beret anymore.Why I say opportunites given to CDO only because they can go for recourse over and over again until they pass.This course used to be very difficult to pass so there is no shame to say that many old timers have taken it several times.Some of the courses were intentional for old troopers (people already into their 30s) to clear .This is to the best of my knowledge unless they are changes already.People get posted out of formation for all kinds of reasons but I see no reason why a regular Commando shouldnt be without a Ranger tab.

Gedanken SG

You're missing the point, Icemoon. The Ranger course and the Ranger battalions are two related but entirely separate things.

Commando LRRP companies already have LRRP training and all companies are trained in the strike role (I don't know if the distinction exists following the changes in the NS structure, though), so the ORBAT-related issue is already addressed.

On the other hand, as the others have already said, the Ranger course is more of a leadership course. The Commando section leader course can be seen to be a more basic and scaled-down version of the Ranger course, and is in fact conducted by Ranger cadres (or it was the last time I checked).

LazerLordz SG

Not exactly. Sometimes unconventional knowledge can be applied in certain other units too.

It's about changing how you think and react on the battlefield too.

For e.g, Armour OC with Ranger experience may actually have a better idea on how to repel raiding attacks, spec ops intrusion and how to set up force protection for the laager etc.. (as far as I know, though I may be wrong)

Gedanken SG

Asan extension to Lordz’s point, and in answer to Icemoon’s question about OCs being involved in grunt work, it’s not unknown for OCs to get caught up in fights. There are plenty of instances in firefights getting well past the perimeter to the battalion HQ, and not only OCs but COs directly taking part in the action. An officer with Ranger training would be better equipped to handle that sort of situation.

LazerLordz SG

And that reminds me of one incident in the first "Thunder Runs" into Baghdad in 2003.. where a US Army Brigade Commander (COL) had to repel a few suicide bombers in cars attempting to ram themselves into the rear elements of his armoured column.

seancannot SG

Last time my unit condemned MTO wears a red RANGER tab

LazerLordz SG

Perhaps he got stuck after that. Or he was an exception to the rule.

Most Ranger-tabbed officers/WOs I've known are quite competent fellows.

flash9933 SG

You can hardly find an Armour trained Ranger nowadays. Those lao-jiao AI vocation Rangers(mostly WOs) are almost reaching their retirement period, most if not all have spend at least 20-25 years in the force already.

kajagugu SG

It was also pointed out in the article that the course lets you know your true physical and mental limits. The unforgiving chain of missions is to let soldiers have a feel of what it feels like in a real battle. When that day comes(touchwood), at least Ranger-trained guys can be better prepared for it and motivate his own troopers.

My BMT CSM was also a ranger, rumors that he passed only after a few tries, which speaks volumes of how tough the course is. But to be posted to Tekong, dunno whether he suay or kena hentak-kaki.

Airbourne training is part of the training programme, but issit a pre-requisite for Ranger course?

Short Ninja SG

The cruel part about the course is that you are at the mercy of the cadres,they can make you look good or bad in the course and they have the power to pass or fail you just like that,this is something I will not elaborate.The Ranger course in Japan SDF is very siong also but trainees dont get tekan for nothing or simply because the cadre dont like you but because you really Farked Up they dont have the demerit point system,the trainees there quit on their own cuz there is no fix date and time as to when the course ends.Still, if you compare these two I would say the SAF one was/is more jialat.Rapelling is part of the training not Airborne and it wasnt a pre-requisite.
The Ranger course of the past was so respected that if you tell people you did it twice or three times and even 4 times in a row people dont mock at you but they think you are more determined & hardcore .Although I did it only once I could say that I sort of envy these guys.

kajagugu SG

Sorry, just curious...did you pass in the end?

Based on the Pioneer article, there's a pic of a trainee parachuting out. If that trainee wasnt airbourne-trained prior, is he qualified to wear the Airborne badge after he passed Ranger course?

saline SG

there is one OC in 40 SAR (if he is still there) who has the RANGER tab.
Wink

Short Ninja SG

Yes I passed.That trainee has to be airborne trained first.

Icemoon SG

Pioneer magazine also interviewed CPT Lim Han Yong of 40SAR in the course.

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