SAR21 and M16

Gackt247 SG

Wat’s TS’ hidden agenda?

blitzonic SG

mmm what is ur appointment?

~lol~ Nothing extraordinary, lah. I was a FO or FSO TA, depending on attachment. Mostly involved carrying signal set for the officer to call for artillery fire, though my FSO also informally taught me fire-mission tactics & sometimes allowed me to execute it on the fly (registrations, H&I's, TOTs, adjustment fires, FFEs) while trekking towards the "firefight". All simulations, of course. In the real thing, there's always a trainer following you & insisting on SOPs.

I was just in a unique position cuz my unit issued Carbines, unlike other Arty outfits & their FO/FSO teams with their ubiquitous M16s. Very cool-looking weapon for those unfamiliar with it: much shorter, different handguard design & with a collapsible butt. Some more, I'd always slung it "barrel down", even for SOC, which was the opposite recommendation for the M16 (too long to do the same).

BrUtUs SG

Laughing
then women get wat?

VagueHart SG

BATON! Laughing Embarassed

Icemoon SG

Don't understand.

Aren't you guys attached to us combat companies in guards, infantry or armour battalion? So ultimately you draw your weapon from that unit.

LazerLordz SG

Same way I slung my AR-15 all the time, front of SBO. Laughing

I always believe that having the barrel face down is safer, and also allows for easier access to the handgrip in case you are contacted.

SBS3625D SG

Honestly, I like the carbine cos it looks cool, the barrel grip is better, and it is shorter and hence makes it easier for movement.The SAR-21 is too heavy for my liking.

Unfortunately, the carbine is rather more fragile, I've lost count of the number times I had to use Locktite. Mr. Green

blitzonic SG

Aren't you guys attached to us combat companies in guards, infantry or armour battalion? So ultimately you draw your weapon from that unit.

Rarely, in my time. We were expected to bring our own rifles too, as I recall. Sometimes it's out of convenience, esp. when with my FSO cuz he has his own car & we would head back "home" immediately after debusing from the 3-tonner.

Same way I slung my AR-15 all the time, front of SBO

Steady pom peep peep, as they say. What's memorable all these years is the occasional question asking me whether my weapon was the fabled SAR-80 (or was it SAR-88?), then still under development & never issued out on a mass scale. Ultimately that rifle-upgrading project was abandaned, until the SAR-21 in the next decade.

Icemoon SG

Then your native unit armskote cannot close shop until you go back. You take car also no use. Must wait for company armskote cleared then can book out right? Laughing

I think this FSO system is very silly. Why can't combat units have their own FSOs under Battalion HQ or Support Company? Furthermore, the FSO assistant is ultimately a signaller first an arti man second.

specialOps SG

i had used the carbine for a year, it was the best weapon to carry around and it looks cool...until we went range....haha....really jialat at 300m.

SAR-21 turned things around....

PointBlue SG

My FN MAG aka GPMG owns all.

Twisted Evil

Icemoon SG

yeah .. owns all in the amount of time needed to clean it! Laughing

blitzonic SG

Then your native unit armskote cannot close shop until you go back. You take car also no use. Must wait for company armskote cleared then can book out right?

Nope, & I suppose I've better clarify. 21SA operated the SP mortar then (mounted inside M113s) & I believe it "bao"-ed all the local Arty live-firing attachments since, obviously, the 155mm units cannot fire real rounds here. Some SAR units also had the same weapons but I don't think they had FO teams.

So I could be attached out for various missions. The most frequent involved live firing, usually 2 days' dry-runs & one day live, quite rigidly conducted with a lot of controllers in attendence. But the embedded Arty BTY & FO team would return to our own unit each night & then move out again next morn. The other common version was their one-day BN-level EXs (no live rounds), so again the FO team could head back after the debrief. The hassle was, rather, ensuring our indented Land Rover knew where to find us! ~lol~ In both instances, must sent arms after each RTU.

Yes, there were times when we didn't return for a few days but it only involved the forward teams (2-3 soldiers) &, I guess, the DOs would clear arms accordingly once they saw the absent personnel included officers (either the FSO who's also the BTY commander, or the FO).

Travel by car was quite uncomfortable, I tell you ~lol~ It was a more innocent time then, but still an amazing feeling whenever we could clear the guardroom (with rifles & signal sets in the car boot). Thankfully, we did it only once or twice, sticking more with the Land Rover option. Also, outfield FSO attachments were quite few; most of them had involved wargamings instead (no combat gear).

I think this FSO system is very silly.

Yeah, I questioned it too, vis-a-via how the FOs operated in Vietnam. Furthermore, IMO it's impracticable that the Arty units shall fire at the BN level (18 mortars or 12 guns) in wartime, as per training. (In Vietnam, they fired at the BTY level via forward bases). Then, after my ORD, I saw how the Arty elements were co-opted into the combat-arms DIVs during the Army restructurings & wondered if the SAF bureaucrats had overdid themselves. But ~shrug~ they're professionals, & Lee Hsien Loong was also an ex-gunner, so hopefully they know what they're doing.

Why can't combat units have their own FSOs under Battalion HQ or Support Company?

IMO Cuz they're historically combat support & not combat arms, in our context. Ditto the ADA BNs, which some other armed forces notably view as more frontline. In any case, the SIR units have their own mortar platoons for heavier fire support, more significantly on an ad-hoc basis too cuz the rear Arty guns need to be properly coordinated & climatic conditions factored in.

Why can't combat units have their own FSOs under Battalion HQ or Support Company?

According to my "heirs" at the recent AOH, the unit no longer has FOs. (Cuz the SSSH Primus is 155mm, presumably.) So maybe they're now fully under infantry strength, or perhaps with SAR outfits & their ATTC Broncos. Neither make operational sense though, since the FOs won't get live training on the one hand, & armoured troops are too frontline to support the infantry on the other.

Okay, back to topic ....

SBS3625D SG

You should try my .5 MG. Evil or Very Mad

Icemoon SG

try what?

try to scrap carbon out with my fingers?

Oh .. that's easy! Laughing

LazerLordz SG

Have you tried to strip the M242 Bushmaster and maintain it? Laughing

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