Airborne Training / School

Joshua1975 SG

SIZE?
how big is the size of SEALS, SBS/SAS
Idea

Joshua1975 SG

Update, Guards Pathfinder platoon no more, Pathfinder Coy. YES. In reserve under BDE orbat. very much active as in call back yearly.

equlus84 SG

wad is pathfinder? Are you referring to the recce coy of BDE and scout platoon of the GDS BN?

Obersturmfuhrer SG

Pathfinders are initial insertion teams sent in to mark out possible landing sites for heli insertions, airborne drops, etc. They do not conduct recon as in enemy despositions as per se.

chanjyj SG

That job is left to the recon and scouts, or commandos on LRRP.

scabstermooch SG

Commando

Commando role is probably...Commando! I think the concept was pioneered by the British Army in WWII - Basically light infantry trained to get in fast, attack and withdraw before the enemy could properly react. US Army rangers are based on British Army Commandos; Infact the first batch of US Army Rangers were trained by British Army commandos. The British Army Commandos are no more now but the role has been taken up by the Royal Marine Commandos.

Our Commando have of course evolved a little in that they do LRRPs - I think in other armies, LRRPs are usually left to SF.

The British Army Equivalent would be the Royal Marine Commandos - New recruits undergo about 8-9 months training to become royal marine commandos. Today though they seem to do very little commando-type things and they are used primarily as elite infantry, much like the parachute regiment.

I suspect that were Singapore to go to war, we would do the same.

SOF

The British Army equivalent would be the SAS though as some have pointed out the SAS has far wider capabilities.

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Btw, it is the Parachute Regiment, not the Royal Parachute Regiment.

chanjyj SG

Btw, it is the Parachute Regiment, not the Royal Parachute Regiment.

My bad. I came to the conclusion that for the UK everything is prefixed with "Royal" Mr. Green

Commando role is probably...Commando! I think the concept was pioneered by the British Army in WWII - Basically light infantry trained to get in fast, attack and withdraw before the enemy could properly react.

Er..... That sounds very much like the guards leh. I always thought that was what the guards did. I am super blur on where the lines is drawn between guards and commandos now.

Anyone here can elaborate what the NDU really does? I haven't the faintest idea what kind of operations they actually do. In fact I think the Royal Marine Commandos would be the better description of the NDU rather than the CDO.

Joshua1975 SG

we conduct local as in LZs and DZs AO recon. A coy of Pathfinders (numbers withhold) to do recon on LZ for 3+1 LS isn't any easy jobs and to add on a DZ for resup. Hell it will be.

enemy heavy activities in and around the AO will put landing OPS in a tied windows. Any single man out of action will add on work loads on the coy.

Pathfinder land blind, hours later follow by Sniper, LRRP and BRC than battalions scout. Day or days later than the landing force,
Hell the top knows what they are doing... ??????? maybe the top CDOs knows.

First In, Last Out.

chanjyj SG

Originally posted by Joshua1975:

Pathfinder land blind, hours later follow by Sniper, LRRP and BRC than battalions scout. Day or days later than the landing force,
Hell the top knows what they are doing... ??????? maybe the top CDOs knows.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Sniper and LRRP are division assets, but I don't think they will be deployed together. I think they act seperately, in different capacities and functions.

Sniper is primarily a front-line unit, aka, they stay ahead of friendly forces to "scout ahead", but remain infront of the enemy's front. However, LRRP will be inserted behind the enemy's front, and may not be involved directly in the emminent attack. They may be monitering the enemy's reaction to the attack and how they redeploy forces, checking if enemy reinforcements/new troops coming in, etc.

The battalion level scouts are a diff matter altogether, they deploy shortly ahead of the battalion only, help to determine method of attack, enemy positions, and do not act idependently of the parent unit.

scabstermooch SG

I dun think Guards specialise in Raids - perhaps some ex-guardsmen can pipe in.

I am also not sure what the NDU really does - probably recce in general and beach recce? The british equivalent however is not the Royal Marine Commandos - the RM is elite infantry under the Navy with a commando role. They also specialise/keep themselves updated on Arctic warfare.

Edit: RSN website says:

"NDU is responsible for all diving operations, which include general and combat diving operations, explosive ordnance disposal and mine disposal for the SAF. It comprises the Diving School, Clearance Diving Group, Underwater Demolition Group, and Combat DIving Group..."

riken1974 SG

Let’s not forget NDU’s SWG = SBS in Britain

Short Ninja SG

There was a company of pathfinders in the Guards reserve unit in fact they were the original first batch and perhaps the best.Guardsmen,ex-Cdos,Rangers and some misfits also.I wonder what happened to them.Pvt me if you were one of them.

Gedanken SG

Originally posted by chanjyj:
Nono.. I think I was misunderstood

I know there are some who get those badges (American Wings etc), but the whole group of commandos i.e. 1st CDO Btn is not a special forces group right? It's just highly trained infantry, comparable to maybe the American Rangers.

I'm also a bit confused why most CDOs don't go for ranger sch in the US, when the US Rangers themselves are considered only "[b]special-ops capable" and not special forces.

So can we say that our Singapore commandos are just highly trained infantry/airborne troops who are special-ops capable but aren't special forces themselves, and our only "true" Special forces group will be the SOF (In peace and war)? No offence to any Commando/NDU/Guards. I have friends in there.

Forgive my terrible "lawyers writing". I'm been typing my proposals the past few hours and can't seem to get that "official" tone of voice out of my system. Neutral

Ponders/Gedanken wish to tell this noob here more? (I do surf this forum, only I don't post anything)[/b]

No, you're just about right there, chanjyj.

The role of 1 CDO is about the same as that of the US Rangers, mainly LRRP and small-scale raids. Effectively they are light infantry with airborne capability. Another equivalent unit would be the British Paras. I'll avoid a comparison with the US 82nd Airborne because that unit's huge.

For special forces in the vein of the SAS or Green Berets, Singapore's got the SOF and SWG. That said, SOF is not all that large a unit, forming the rough equivalent of one of the SAS' squadrons.

Short Ninja SG

Your description of 1st CDO is honest and true.The Singapore Ranger course is or should I say was not a learning course unlike the US Rangers but those who went through the sleep deprivation ,mental and physical stress deserve a certain degree of respect.If possible SAF should send soldiers for the US Ranger instead of conducting their own course which is a lot cheaper but the quality of soldiering skill is a lot different also.Were all thick skinned and can go through all kinds of tekan but what we want is good knowledge also.

Joshua1975 SG

what is sniper doing for scout ahead? what role are they in now? scouting or niping?
what is behind enemy front. LRRP to check enemy reinforcement? how far in is LRRP deploy in the 1st place, do you know? reinforcement to where? the new toy, UAV for what? and what are the scout for? what the hack the battalion setting block force? ENEMY REINFORCEMENT???
LRRP have more importance info or i should say role to do than this.

talking about LZ in-ops, your "don't think they will be deployed together" does not apply. just correcting you.

Joshua1975 SG

??? ??? ???

Pvt me??? big shot??? read below

scabstermooch SG

You nasty fella! Smile I think he wanted you to send him a private message if you belong to the afore-mentioned pathfinder platton.

chanjyj SG

what is sniper doing for scout ahead? what role are they in now? scouting or niping?

Confused you so bad mood for what? Laughing Frankly, I have no idea. My friend in HQ Commando didn't tell me what snipers actually did. but from what he said I think he was implying that sniper still stay infront of the enemy. Joshua1975 if you know better can you elaborate?

LRRP to check enemy reinforcement?

I think you misunderstood my meaning. Reinforcement as in general enemy movement in a specific area. Not 1 platoon walking down the road.

UAV for what?

I have no idea what level UAV will be used? Maybe batallion level. When I mentioned LRRP I was talking about Division level.

and what are the scout for?

If I was correct in saying UAV is btn level, then I think the UAV would be aurmenting the scouts.[/i]

Gedanken SG

I agree that the US and Singapore Ranger courses are very different courses. That said, I don't think it's necessary to send large groups of men to the US Ranger course. That would be prohibitively expensive, and besides, the skills could be taught by Singaporean instructors who are themselves properly trained. Under the leadership of then-Captain Ng Heng Chew, my instructors certainly did build in the map-reading, patrolling and other skills that you would find in the US Ranger syllabus.

SpecOps87 SG

Just curious Ged, for those whom have cleared the Ranger course and are awarded the Ranger Tab be it the local or foreign tab, in times of war do they fight as a unit like what the US Army do? Where all the Rangers fight together as a unit?

Thanks in adv.

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