Sq 117 hijack

last SG · 2006-05-14T22:57:37+00:00

You might be surprised.. but the weapons used at that time was not MP5. They used M16 to storm the plane. Yes, i feel it is abit unwieldy to use M16, but...

Gedanken SG

Ooh. Multiple entry - that was an accident waiting to happen, even though it might have been necessary.

Icemoon SG

opps .. issit?

I'm of the opinion you can't use SQ 117 as a good benchmark for our SOF then. I apologize if I sound contradictory in my reply.

Icemoon SG

It was to laugh at the poster who cited the detachment 81 example. He chose a low profile mission when a high profile one could suffice.

So does it mean he dunno the high profile ones or he wanted to enlighten me about a lower profile one?

Icemoon SG

well .. almost everyone did beside our SOF.

so do you think our one was a good benchmark?

Icemoon SG

what the heck .. they asked cadet to go for ops? Shocked

Gedanken SG

So why wouldn't it be a good benchmark?

will4 SG

The cadet is apparently a CPT. I read in one of the Indonesian paper cause I from Indonesia.

storywolf SG

The mission at that time is rather "Take out all tango, stop any of them before they can take any action to blow up the plane " . If you think that is easy think again !

the team have to charge into a planes from different entrances , with time limit as the stop clock is ticking, before the tangos can recover from the surprise and iginte the explosive ! You got 2 teams charging in , with all the smoke , noise, shock passengers, to shoot, to kill all tangos fast without shooting any passengers or other teams mates , with everyone of them moving, with limited lights , without tripping yourself in the tight walkway.

This is not arcade games, you don't get to practice the whole scene till perfect ! you get to play it once only.

I would say it is a good job done , an a perfect textbook case , as result is what any teacher would be proud of - all tango take down without the chance to hurt anyone or trigger the explosive, no hostage or own team mates hurt !

bcoy SG

You are an Indonesian? Did you serve in the military?

Gedanken SG

Exactly, storywolf.

First and foremost, I've never met a Green Beret or SAS trooper who doesn't like simplicity. The ones I've met have only cared about getting the job done, and none of them have had a problem with SQ117's lack of complexity.

Second, as you've said, it was a textbook execution, all tangos dead and all hostages rescued. 100% of the mission requirements were achieved, so there's no point in going "well, it could have been bettter if ...." - nobody's awarding 110% here.

Third, let's face it - the reality is that faecal matter happens, and it happens to the best of us. Do we wish that things were a lot more complicated so that we can prove that we can handle things going badly wrong? Anybody who does really has no business going anywhere near CT ops - gung-ho Rambo wannabes are only good for one thing, and that one thing's getting friendlies killed.

bcoy SG

Just to clarify - SIA does not use plastic knives in any of their in-flight classes.

The hijackers had used their own knives as well. And at that point of time, it was reported that the hijackers had sticks of dynamic. In addition, they had poured alcohol and threatened to burn the plane from inside.

All of these details/photos and more have been reported and described.

bcoy SG

Senior cadet may mean something else in Indonesia.

will4 SG

Correct but only served NS in 2 PDF Comd. I often read about TNI matter.

bcoy SG

I'm just guessing from the descriptions of the Garuda hijack, some more information from the book

All 3 team went in at the same time rear, middle, and front.
First contact upon entry was made in the middle by the hijacker with the sole pistol. He was shot by Uzis of Sgts. Hidayat and Suwarno. Both Sgts got onto the planes aisle back to back, one facing front, the other facing rear.
At this time, the team at the rear made its entry and was hit by fire from the Uzis as well. PL Tobing was hit in the finger and vest, while senior cadet Kirang was hit below the vest and died a day later.
At the front upon hearing shots from the middle of the aircraft, Sgt Mahmud and senior cadet Slamet fired their Beretta and Uzi into the cabin while still on the ladders, before moving into the plane itself. The planes captain was hit at this point.

Gedanken SG

Damn, that's a mess - who the hell goes blindly firing through a wall when he can't see what the hell he's shooting at? Sounds like a complete Charlie Fox by the front team, and to some extent the middle team.

Sounds like a major coordination screw-up as well if the front team wasn't in the aircraft by the time the other two teams were havign a blue-on-blue.

Well, there you go - such a mission can go badly wrong, and it's a good thing our boys didn't did the job right on 117.

Icemoon SG

I never said it was easy, did I? I said it was comparatively easier than other hijack ops.

The conditions you mentioned, aren't they standard for most hijack ops? Hijack ops always have time limit, whether it is 5 minute 1 life or 30 minutes bomb goes off, for example. And which hijack ops has the cabin orderly enough for you to shoot?

I don't think you guys should make it sound so hard in the case of SQ117. I believe CT units are trained to distinguish tangos from innocents or friends. I believe they can throw president nathan and the cabinet ministers into the killing house, storm the house, and everyone can come out unscathed.

The mission is perfect because they were perfect during their practices. They did practise on a similar plane before the mission right?

Icemoon SG

Because the whole scenario was a standard textbook mission. Was there anything exceptional or sudden change of circumstances that warranted an igenuity on their part?

I don't think there was anything exceptional in the circumstances or anything new to be learned from that mission.

Icemoon SG

It was a well done job, no doubt. But definitely not a good benchmark.

If this is a good benchmark of their abilities, then logic will lead us to admit Detachment 81, GSG and GIGN were below par. Because all three missions had casualties on the CT side.

Theirs were missons not well done. < 100% mission requirements. So they suck?

Gedanken SG

I'm not sure what perspective you're taking on this, but round my neighbourhood, we want the job to be as uneventful as possible.

Let's face it, Detachment 81 messed up for some reason or other. They had a blue-on-blue and shot hostages, botching the entry so one team was still outside when the other two were already shooting, and then shooting through the walls of the aircraft. As far as CT ops are concerned, all those are big no-nos, especially plinking friendlies.

Is D81 a bad unit? I can't say for sure. Was that a bad mission? Definitely. Does such a mission add to the unit's reputation? Decidedly not - at least not in a good way because you don't brag about f*cking up. Do we want to have a mission like that? Definitely not.

The ingenuity's in the training and mission planning, not the execution, and if the job's done right, there's nothing much to be said about it because it'll be pure vanilla.

riken1974 SG

Reminds me of Margaret Thatcher the Iron Lady who is so confident of the SAS that she's willing to sit inside the killing house and let the SAS trooper's live round fly past past her and hit all the targets surronding her. Don't think any of our minister would dare to take that sort of challenge.

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