Witness relates dunking death of soldier

last SG · 2004-09-25T12:58:18+00:00

Uh, why's this topic unlocked again? Not that I'm complaining - Moxie will just be in for another caning this way!

wuming78 SG

Singapore : Lieutenant Ng Chin Fong, the first of the 4 commandos on trial to take the stand, has told the court that he can't remember dunking 2nd Sergeant Hu En Huai, the trainee who died and he is very sure that he did not dunk Captain Ho Wan Hou, who is the other survival course trainee who nearly drowned.

Lieutenant Ng says he could not have been the one who plunged Captain Ho in a tub of water during the Combat Survival course.

The reason, he argued, is the way he dunked each trainee. He would use one hand to grab the back of the trainee's collar and the other hand to lift the trainee by the back of his waist.

Captain Ho had testified that the trainer dunking him and had used one hand to hold his mouth and nose open.

Captain Ho had also told the court that the trainer who held his mouth and nose open wore half gloves with his fingers exposed.

But Lieutenant Ng says he wore full gloves with his fingers covered.

As for Sergeant Hu, Lieutenant Ng says he can't remember dunking him, nor can he remember any trainee collapsing after the water treatment.

When asked about the CST lesson plan, Lieutenant Ng told the court he made several attempts to obtain the document but was unsuccessful and therefore, has never seen it. Although he admits the lesson plan was accessible, he said there is a difference whether or not it was actually made available to him. - CNA

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pardon me, but i find this rather ludicrous. cannot remember!? what kind of excuse is that?!?! it sounds like hes trying to slimely swindle his way out of this affair.

[email protected] SG

amnesia. how convenient. how come this kind of coward can get into the CDO n be a officer somemore?

LazerLordz SG

Precisely.What a way to dodge responsibility…Such a pansy.

LoVeMeLoVeMenOt SG

Oh dear...what a good execuse Neutral

Xprobe SG

When push comes to shove, how to rely on such a person, at least to speak the truth and stand up to it. Boooo...shame the creed

Moxie SG

Q: Is it Commando SOP - or loophole - that any "qualified" instructor could suka-suka join in a training activity, even if he's not given a specific course appointment prior? That wasn't the culture when I taught my batch of mono-intake recruits (albeit a different context).

[Also, with us I recall the lesson plans were also accessible. Most of us DI's admittedly don't read it, though I did skim through a few (out of curiosity). Our training lecturer, a NSF, was very diligent with his preparation though, to the extent the other training cadre guys jibed him about "bo peng yau si" for carrying the files purposefully all the time.]

To quote from TODAY:

"He also revealed that he wasn't even appointed to conduct his last CST, but had volunteered when WO S Balakrishnan was giving out tasks to other instructors. He explained: 'I volunteered myself because I was not doing anything else & I left that I needed to assist them because the 80th course had the largest number of trainees, as far as I know."

He, Lt Divanandhari Chandrasekharan & Lt Ryan Toh Keng Tiong went to the training site after their reconnaissance exercise was cut short that day."

Xprobe SG

No la...it is their nature to be on-the-ball 24/7 even if it is the wrong ball

[email protected] SG

MUAHAHAHA! wah lau damn funny. i almost spewed my mouthful of milo onto my laptop. Laughing

Ibram Gaunt SG

Latest news from http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/112435/1/.html

Posted: 19 October 2004 2108 hrs

Second trainer denies dunking commando trainees
By Dominique Loh, Channel NewsAsia

SINGAPORE : The second commando officer charged with causing the death of 2nd Sergeant Hu En Huai has taken the stand.

Lieutenant Divanandhari claims he does not remember dunking Sergeant Hu and was not involved in dunking Captain Ho Wan Huo, who nearly drowned

This is exactly the same testimony given by the first commando trainer - Lieutenant Ng Chin Fong.

Lieutenant Divanandhari admits that he escorted Captain Ho Wan Huo to the water tank, but when he reached the water treatment area, the commando said he handed him over to the other instructors.

He did not dunk the captain, who nearly drowned.

He claims he only helped to dunk trainees later to speed things up - when the training fell behind schedule.

He said he dunked around 10 trainees, but cannot recall if Sergeant Hu was among them.

He told the court: "If I had dipped Captain Ho or 2nd Sergeant Hu, I believe Captain Ho would have been okay and Sergeant Hu would be alive today. If I am tasked to do the same water treatment with the same water tub tomorrow, I would have the experience and knowledge as a professional instructor to conduct a safe prisoner of war water treatment training."

Lieutenant Diva learned the ropes at the Commando Training Wing by watching and learning from other senior instructors.

Since his posting in 1998, he had undergone 27 CST and three Ranger courses as an instructor.

During that time, he had never witnessed a serious casualty that needed a medical evacuation.

He had also seen the CST lesson plan, he said infact it was adapted from the Ranger course. - CNA
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Another commando trainer "cannot remember" whether he dunked Sgt Hu.
How convenient.....

[email protected] SG

Originally posted by Ibram Gaunt:
[b]Latest news from http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/112435/1/.html

Posted: 19 October 2004 2108 hrs

Second trainer denies dunking commando trainees
By Dominique Loh, Channel NewsAsia

SINGAPORE : The second commando officer charged with causing the death of 2nd Sergeant Hu En Huai has taken the stand.

Lieutenant Divanandhari claims he does not remember dunking Sergeant Hu and was not involved in dunking Captain Ho Wan Huo, who nearly drowned

This is exactly the same testimony given by the first commando trainer - Lieutenant Ng Chin Fong.

Lieutenant Divanandhari admits that he escorted Captain Ho Wan Huo to the water tank, but when he reached the water treatment area, the commando said he handed him over to the other instructors.

He did not dunk the captain, who nearly drowned.

He claims he only helped to dunk trainees later to speed things up - when the training fell behind schedule.

He said he dunked around 10 trainees, but cannot recall if Sergeant Hu was among them.

He told the court: "If I had dipped Captain Ho or 2nd Sergeant Hu, I believe Captain Ho would have been okay and Sergeant Hu would be alive today. If I am tasked to do the same water treatment with the same water tub tomorrow, I would have the experience and knowledge as a professional instructor to conduct a safe prisoner of war water treatment training."

Lieutenant Diva learned the ropes at the Commando Training Wing by watching and learning from other senior instructors.

Since his posting in 1998, he had undergone 27 CST and three Ranger courses as an instructor.

During that time, he had never witnessed a serious casualty that needed a medical evacuation.

He had also seen the CST lesson plan, he said infact it was adapted from the Ranger course. - CNA
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Another commando trainer "cannot remember" whether he dunked Sgt Hu.
How convenient.....
[/b]

whooo! hey check it out! commandos turn choirboys! its a wee bit late to get castrated to join the vienna boys' choir ain't it Ng & Diva? like... about 20 years too late?

*SNORT*

Ibram Gaunt SG

It seems to me that none of the commando trainers are willing to step forward to take responsibility for the tragedy.

And I thought that commandos are gung-ho, brave and fearless. The best of the best.

Sadly, when it comes to the crunch, their courage to admit responsibility FAILS them. A real officer will never duck responsibility for the men under his charge.

Moxie SG

So both trainers deny responsibility for the dunking? ~scarcasm~

Gee, where's the bunch of Teo Chee Hean-conspiracy chest thumpers from 2 months back ....

Icemoon SG

ACCUSED Lieutenant Divanandhari Ambat Chandrasekharan, 28, was emotional in court yesterday as he addressed eyewitness claims that he removed the epaulette from Capt Ho Wan Huo's uniform, threw it on the ground and stepped on it.

This was his response:

'I have been a disciplined officer for the last eight years in the Singapore Armed Forces.

'Having gone through the premier school for officer training, being a platoon commander, leading my men by example, training boys to be men, making men to be officers, I would never, and will never, step on an epaulette that signifies a fellow officer and has the Singapura word, which is my country, to be stepped upon under my feet, or would allow anybody to insult that rank.'

Divanandhari said that after removing the epaulette - worn to show an officer's rank - to question Capt Ho, he put it back in the trainee's right trouser pocket.

HAHAHAHAHA .. you all read his response? Damn funny man! Really wayang words of the highest level liao!

Premier school for officer training .. lead by example .. *I am so touched*

chikopek SG

If he is such a good officier he will have promoted to CPT then

kwlee SG

SINGAPORE : The second commando officer charged with causing the death of Second Sergeant Hu En Huai has explained to the court how he interrogated the combat survival trainees.
Lieutenant Divanandhari is also facing a second charge for nearly drowning Captain Ho Wan Huo.
Lieutenant Diva testified that commando Captain Pandiaraj, who faces charges of instigating the drowning and near drowning, had indicated to him that one of the trainees was an officer -- Captain Ho.
When asked if Captain Pandiaraj had done that so he could confront the trainee, Lieutenant Diva said no.
The commando trainer claims asking a trainee his rank is part and parcel of the interrogation.
Lieutenant Diva also denied testimony from other witnesses that he had thrown Captain Ho's rank on the ground and stepped on it.
He said he would never insult a fellow officer in that manner.
Lieutenant Diva clarified that when he removed Captain Ho's rank, it wasn't to disrespect Captain Ho or his rank.
If that was the case, when the trainees' uniforms are worn inside-out during the prisoner of war training, it would also be a sign of disrespect to the Army.
He said it is all part of the training. At the end of the day, they are all fellow soldiers in the same army. - CNA

duajia SG

Correct me if I am wrong. I think the debate going on 2 months ago was mainly about the charging of CPT Pandiaraj and Warrant Bala. In no way did any of the "chest thumpers" then, supported the trainers who had currently denied responsibility for the dunking.

[email protected] SG

ya loh. so i suppose they are gonna say my fren slipped on a banana skin n slipped n fell head 1st into the tub n drowned himself? and that the other trainees also did the same thing but din drown? hey want to lie lie better right? sheesh do they have a brain? oh wait! they don't! if they did this Shit wouldn't have happend in the 1st place!

*SNORT*

[email protected] SG

pui. more choir practice. big manyl commandos become sissy choirboys singing the nicest, and most well rehersed tunes in court. what balls what courage. They aren't facing death here, just couple of years in jail and maybe a screw up to their career and yet they already have no guts to admit like MEN that they Fucked up. Depend on THESE 2 jokers to die for their fellow comrade in arms? pah. but can depend on them to KILL their fellow comrade in arms wor...

some "brotherhood" the involved ones show. at the 1st sign of Shit they start throwing the black pot around. U'd wonder if they bribed to get into CDO and OCS in the 1st place or not. or maybe they licked some 3 Star balls.

[email protected] SG

Fuck la can we stop calling these few pieces of trash commandos? U wanna know what a real commando is, we’ve a few good examples here in the forums. Gedanken for one.

Moxie SG

Nah, there's been a running battle within this sgforums network for quite a while, even before I showed up. Basically, I sensed the CDO posters/sympathizers to have close ranks, claiming other soldiers don't understand their values & the unconventional nature of their training.

That's fine by me, but I took exception to the wilder claims that the investigations & legal proceedings were an insidious fault-finding conspiracy by MINDEF, with the Defence Minister as the figurehead.

Well, the court proceedings have revealed a lot, eh? Aside from the actual alleged lawbreakers, that is. There's a lot of flawed institutional SOPs & execution when it comes to how the CST course was supposed to be conducted. Maybe some (misguided) posters went through the same training & thought it was accepted stuff, when they were in reality victimized by unauthorized practices. That or they wanna still claim legitimacy over it simply cuz they've survived it.

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