Can WO take up commission officer appointments?

last SG · 2004-12-15T16:35:07+00:00

nay... if the CPT is a degree holder most likely he only has one yr job experience in his service

LazerLordz SG

Maintenance units operate slightly differently in terms of unit culture and mission statement.They are just that slightly more oriented towards a customer-first culture and behave somewhat as a military-run entity with commercial-like goals.Productivity and efficiency is championed but the biggest stumbling block to lofty ideals is the fact that you cannot expect private-sector performance from “employees” who are paid peanuts.NSF officers are closer to the WOSEs because they are often of the same age as the guys.Rank and hierarchy closer to the WOs than the PSOs, plus the fact that they are new and need mentoring.

Shrapnel SG

yah, peacetime means no way of benchmarking... without actual war the benchmark now is only ISO, competition among various units, and up the image in local regions. SAF always highly regarded by analysts from other countries so in a way, the image portrayal is successful...

but outsourcing is risky business.... i suppose the only partner would be ST (SG technologies). Their passion is in profits, not in defending. so when actual war comes, can they be depended to provide the highest readiness in logistics support?

i pray hope no war too.. and unlikely in these days when war is waged on the economic front Smile

LazerLordz SG

You've hit the nail on the head.Outsourcing is good for peacetime, but when war comes, do we have the critical mass required to sustain the supporting operations we have to give to the warm bodies in the field so that they might remain warm and not turn stiff an cold?Best way to balance both demands might be to create a partnership with our military engineers and their commercial equivalent.Or improve the instructional methods and up the educational requirements of regulars so that each person can subsume more than one role and be a "hub" from which OMers in the field can turn to and learn instead of having too many junior SMES running around with nothing to do in peacetime.

Master -_- SG

So many OC estab is filled up by WOs. My upperstudy's upperstudy is a MWO. Everyday kena tekan sia by him. Sometimes become kopi kia for him. But he really taught him well. When it was time for him to leave, i heard he ask the then TRADOC commander and his PSOs to witness the handover and saluted my 2 x upperstudy(a fresh 3 months old 2LT) at the end of it all. So cute Embarassed

Shrapnel SG

i dun understand... what upperstudy's upperstudy... ?

actually up to MWO is quite a respectable rank. should be about CPT equivalent, although officially a SWO rank is still of lower rank than 2LT. I guess that is why the MWO saluted the 2LT then..

I saw before during a NO.1 parade the SWO typically yell and screw the 2LTs who were marching with the colors... no give face.. things should change. i mean its time specs WOs and Officers work collaboratively in a parallel partnership fashion rather than top down.

All are human beings... if treated properly I sincerely believe everyone will put in their best. Even if a spec decides to leave the service, the commitment and drive to excel will prepare him for the outside world, so nothing to lose at all. I knew a spec then who was a highly motivated person and was well liked by his peers and officers. even though he planned to leave the service, his commander was willing to make an effort to land him a job via his personal contacts! cool Very Happy

Einstein99 SG

WOs with degree?

What kind of degree they get? I think a distance learning degree is of no value in the SAF, sometimes in part of the pte sector as well.

In my opinion, WOs are BTC ppl who stay on cos they can't find another job which pay them as well.

Imagine a BTC WO who earns 4-5k per month by backstabbing and angkat bolla? Pui!

I still prefer to take orders from experienced and good WOs and officers.

one-niner SG

you said Colors Party what,in the parade square the RSM and the sergeant majors are the biggest fxxks....especially those Colors ppl, tekan left right center from July till August for SAF Day and NDP...dame stress..

if any one have witnessed a sublatern parade conducted by the Unit's RSM for the units junior officers, its more like a defaulters parade. Laughing

LazerLordz SG

2LTs who think their 9 months of OCS training beats 30 years of operational experience of a MWO and above are not fit to wear the rank and hold the responsibility of a commissioned officer, let alone lead men and answer for their life or death situation.This should be drilled into cadets from the very first day.An officer is a leader who walks the talk, goes in first and leaves not until the last man has gotten out.He will go down fighting and protecting his force, but will not act recklessly in endangering his life or the lives of his men.He will act above what is required of him in work and be an exemplary soldier for his subordinates to respect.An officer who uses his rank and position to empower his troops and inspire them to better work performance is more adualted than one who seeks to control and bend his men to his stubborn will.

Haha.My two cents worth.Sounds like a oath right? Very Happy

deathscythe99 SG

Well... Rolling Eyes Sounds like Mr. Green I think it was taken outta some where.....cant remember where Confused

deathscythe99 SG

Just a qn...are you or Sharpnel in the maintenance field by any chance? Mr. Green

Shrapnel SG

LOL... alomost... i was a clerk in a maintenance unit Very Happy

laurence82 SG

mechanic here... Mr. Green

Shrapnel SG

true... esp part time degree from informatics LOL Very Happy

what i mean is... if the WO has put in hard work and got himself a recognised degree... eg an engineering degree from NTU and it is related to his vocation, then he should be able to command a better pay or a higher appt, or an appt that is reserved for engineering officers.

for now, my guess is probably his boss will say "Good! Keep up the good work! with a degree u have proven urself to have an aptitude for time management, analytical skills etc etc! thus u will have a faster promotion than ur peers"

there is just no room for degree holder WOs, or WOs who aspire to attain something more in life. of cos, he can go get a degree and hang the paper by his bed for self gratification LOL... but then... eventually it is still a dollars and cents issue..

lagi better, maybe SAF should start to think of allowing degree scolarships for potential WOs.

Shrapnel SG

agree!

i think its quite a paradox... SWO rank lower than 2LT but SWO is definitely more experienced than the 2LT. perhaps there should be a rank overlap... like 2LT equivalent to 2WO and so on, so an SWO is about a MAJ equivalent... like what deathscythe mention... and IN paper... that should clear any doubts about 2LTs trying to wield his sword of honor over any baton.

LazerLordz SG

The British Army views capable WOs as leaders and SMEs in their field and givs them appointments which allow their capabilities to shine through.Most officers would defer to a WO in an area where the latter is more qualified.

cornyfish2000 SG

Erm... if so then what for retain the WO ranks? Might as well promote MSG directly to 2LT rite?

But i certainly agree that the WOs deserve respect for their experience in their particular fields and i believe the majority of officers feel the same way too. Personally I have always felt very awkward to be saluted and called sir by someone who's probably as old as my dad and so laojiao, though thankfully that didn't happen very often.

Of course there's always the occasional power-hungry 'one bar general' trying to turn the tables on his former superiors. But these are black sheeps lar.. Wink

LazerLordz SG

Nice to hear that Very Happy

laurence82 SG

I cringed once when i heard my 2IC, a CPT, calling a SWO in my unit by his name, while my OC, a much senior CPT, calls him Encik..

In anyway, that 2IC cmi one.... Laughing

chikopek SG

Yes warrant officiers might be lowly educated compared to those comissioned ones but i believes their educational standards are improving also so in the future we might see a wo with a degree.

LazerLordz SG

Precisely.It's about respecting those more senior than you in many aspects except the cloth on your shoulders.

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