Technical Questions About National Service

Uncle_MooMoo SG

Thks for reading guys, need some clarifications here.

1.) How do I get posted to SPF(police) or CD(fire brigade)? Is it my option or is it their choice? And how do I make it more likely to be enlisted in SPF? Thks

2.) Does enlistment batches go by your education lvl? So say I'm a A Level graduation, I get enlisted with the As and that PSLE Ah Bengs would be enlisted together with the PSLE guys?

3.) If you're not highly educated, you're dead right cause you'd be incredibly low-ranked and of course all the dirty job goes to you?

4.) I'm pretty bad with marching and commands in Malay. Is it a common occurance in the Army and how do I practice before hand.

Thks.

octega SG

1.) Up to the Gov to decide where you go. If die die want to go SPF or CD, have to sign on lor Mr. Green

2.) Ususally.

3.) Not necessary. In the SAF, Even you are highly educated, you still can be incredibly low-ranked with alot of "sai gang"

4.) Don't worry, most ppl in the company dunno malay command as well. You will pick up along the way.

chengyu SG

Here is my response within my knowledge.

1) It is up to CMPB's choice. Your posting and vocation might have something to do with a test done before enlistment where there is o-level type maths/physics mcqs, pattern recognition, memory power tests, etc.

2) Likely to be according to be education level. A Levels and Diploma graduates have different enlistment dates due to the different school year. The Hokkien speaking ones seem to be in a platoon itself.

3) Education level does affect promotion. In the past, those with A Levels and diploma would eventually be promoted to Corporal rank (CPL) and serve 2 1/2 years while those with O Levels and below would be promoted to Lance Corporal (LCP) serve 2 years only. Now all serve 2 years with the six month reduction.

4) You can ask your malay friends or those who have been in NCC or NPCC. Basic commands (spellings incorrect) that I can think of are kekiri boh seng (turn left), kekanan boh seng (turn right), keblakang boh seng (turn behind), cepat jalan (start marching), berhenti (stop marching). Marching starts from the left leg.

Moxie SG

1. You have no input, unless you sign on. It's controversial, but Malays are still more likely to be enlisted in the SCDF. The full-time NSF ratio between the services is something like 3:3:40.

2. Before the current modular education system & extra-months BMT, the Tekong recruit training was informally split into "A Levels" (December, March) & "Poly" (June, September) intakes. Dunno about now. The PSLE/N levels/some O Levels Hokkien peng will go through the mono-intake BMT, at the combat unit self. Those who're retained on will form the main body of said outfits. The CDOs also has a mono-intake system, but with higher qualifications.

3. No escaping the fact that the SAF has a military hierarchy, & those who're at the bottom tends to gripe all the time. The Hokkien peng are usually LCPs at most, but NS is more tolerant for them cuz everyone trains together as frontline soldiers. For service-side LCPs, you're usually part of a very-small team providing some sort of combat support, like storemen. No one's gonna boss you unless you screw up, but since it's a subordinate vocation, you're liable to be at the beck & call of others (eg. drawing stores at 5 am or returning them at 3 am).

4. No, it's common enough - esp. with the mono-intakers last time who had problems understanding even English. It's said that Singlish was invented in the army, but its most-spoken language (even nowadays) remains Hokkien! Marching is easy to pick up, since you'll be drilled time & again on it. Familiarizing with the Malay commands is tougher if you lack previous familiarity/background but, not to worry, there'll be downtime oppotunities during BMTs for clarification or exchanging of notes, like during rifle-cleaning or bunk breaks at nights.

Gedanken SG

1) Allow me to introduce you to rule #1 of national service: you go where they want you to, and you do what they want you to. And while you're at it, hurry up and wait.

2) Depends on the unit - last time I checked, 1 CDO took in A-level batches in December and Poly batches in June, but recruits with PSLE, O-Level and other qualifications were pretty much assigned according to opportunity. There may be other instances of this in the SAF, but I'm not sure.

3) Allow me to introduce you to rule #2 of national service: sh*t rolls downhill. That said, the awareness of said rule can create discrimination against the highly-educated by those whose collars are blue. Those familiar with the use of the phrase "toilet paper" in reference to education would know of this effect. Just because you're highly-educated doesn't mean you're home-free - you could still be under the command of a working-class hero.

4) Refer to rule #1: you'll have to do it, so take the time to learn it.

chikopek SG

1) It depends on your luck but most possibly you will be in the army. If you want to go SPF the best way is to sign on to SPF.

2) Yes as in most cases......... But if you sign on with army as a technical spec then you might be going to mono intake in which you will meet all kinds of people.

3) No. Those warrant officiers, although not highly educated, are respectable persons in the army.

4) Slowly you will be used to it and understand the Malay commands.

Uncle_MooMoo SG

Thks for the all response guys. Helps give me a clearer picture.
There are some questions to your reponse though:

Chengyu:
1.) You were saying that there is o-level type maths/physics mcq, so what happens to ppl who dunno O level maths and physics?
3.) O Levels and below will also automatically get promotion? So where do all the Privates come from then if everyone is promoted to LCP and above?

Moxie:
2.) What's mono-intake BMT at the unit itself?

Gedanken:
4.) Hmm, any suggestions as to how to learn it then? I'm guessing I should prolly ask my malay friends or friends who are in NCC/NPCC as suggested but as for marching? I was in Scouts back in primary school but unfortunately there's very little drills. The few times I've marched were all screwed up, especially the technique to get your foot back in rhythm if you lose it. Where you tap your foot again and dunno what. I'm quite garang at these. Thks

Thks all

Uncle_MooMoo SG

2.) Hmm in most cases...so if I don't get a decent cert, I will end up being placed with the Ah Bengs? The issue here is that I may be going on to skip my Os and instead go into a specialize education which I'm thinking won't be recognise or recorded by the government. So in government records I'd prolly be stated as PSLE graduate and even if I stay on and do my Os, it'd still only be a O graduate.
Technical spec? mono intake?

joie SG

2.) actually the army does engage in some kinda discrimination according to edu. level. from what i know, there is a batch of people who are all enlisted on the same day and the common factor in all these people take S papers (ie. scholarship potential) also, most of those with the bad grades enlist in april, though not necessarily the rule.
don't know why this is so though.

Gedanken SG

Well, the guys from the uniformed groups should be able to help you with both the drills and their commands.

With the commands, start with the basic words and put them together, e.g.:
- kenan = right
- kiri = left
- puseng = turn
- therefore kenan puseng = "turn right" and kiri puseng = "turn left"

It's no different from any other language - break the phrase down into its component words and learn what each word means.

As for the drills, you've got two factors: movements and timing. You can easily learn the movements from your friends in NCC or NPCC. As for the timing, you'll have to learn to coordinate your movements with all the other guys around you, so factor that in when your friends are teaching you and see if you can move in time with them.

I'll also pick up on your question to Moxie. Units such as Commandos conduct their own BMT training - recruits enter the unit from day one and stay there for the duration of their national service, barring any downgrades. It's called a mono-intake because each company is comprised of men taken in at one shot, instead of having men join and leave as you go along.

chengyu SG

1) I was just giving a comparision of what types of questions there would be. I don't remember the exact questions but I remember questions on gears linked together, asking you whether a certain gear will turn clockwise or anticlockwise. This could be considered a Physics questions. The difficulty might be closer to PSLE standard instead of O Level.

2) The rank promoted to and time needed for promotion depends on vocation/unit. Recruits would be promoted to Privates after BMT and will stay at that rank until they become LCP. There is no jump from REC to LCP hence there will always be privates.

chengyu SG

Mono-intake BMT means that the recruits do not go to Tekong for BMT but instead have it at the combat unit itself. This is a minority as most go to tekong. They are likely to stay at the same unit after BMT. One of the armour units, an artillery unit and a few others carry out mono-intake.

sidestep1984 SG

mono intake from what i have heard happens to every unit in the SAF
CDO is evergreen and takes as and when they need people...
mono intake generally happens once every 2 years for each unit...(INF, Armour, Guards, Arty)

Gedanken SG

Nope - CDO battalion has two intakes every year, with the occasional regular converting and coming in from other units.

sidestep1984 SG

then the term evergreen shall be defined as 2 intakes every year,

Gedanken SG

First time I've ever heard evergreen defined that way, especially since the "ever" part implies something constant rather than cyclical.

In any case, it still does not address the issue of "as and when they need people". Intakes are performed on a preplanned schedule, not on an ad hoc basis.

sidestep1984 SG

well my fault on the definition...kept hearing the word evergreen when my cousin was explaining to me the whole concept of mono intakes....guess my first definition was wrong...know what to say...but dunno how to say...my fault...

sidestep1984 SG

well my fault on the definition...kept hearing the word evergreen when my cousin was explaining to me the whole concept of mono intakes and how CDO differs....guess my first definition was wrong...know what to say...but dunno how to say...my fault...

Gedanken SG

No dramas - we got it straight in the end. Smile

I'm not sure why your cousin would say that CDO differs from mono intakes - it is a mono intake unit, and in my day I believe it was the only one around.

Moxie SG

You were saying that there is o-level type maths/physics mcq, so what happens to ppl who dunno O level maths and physics?

I think he's referring to the MAPAS ("Manpower Aptitude Assessment") test, which tests your reasoning skills in a computerized MCQ format. There's no pass-fail standard, & no need to mug for it beforehand either.

Here's a link: http://www.mindef.gov.sg/cyberpioneer/backissues_jan04_02.htm

O Levels and below will also automatically get promotion? So where do all the Privates come from then if everyone is promoted to LCP and above?

All the PTE's should climb to LCP's by ORD time - at worst by the 2nd year of reservist ICT (in-camp training). Otherwise, he's really either a condemned case or a troublemaker who's landed himself in the detention barracks or something.

What's mono-intake BMT at the unit itself?

Around 30% of the annual SAF enlistees (i.e. beyond the SPF or SCDF intakes) do not do their BMT at Tekong. Instead, these recruits are allocated to the SIR, GDS, SA, SAR, SCE or CDO units themselves, where they'll essentially be together for 2 years & then do reservist for 13 years more. Or, like I told my batch of 18-year-olds then: most of them would likely have to co-exist until age 35, & thus had better make an effort to get along early.

The mono-intake training programme is roughly the same as at BMTC, consisting of weapon handling, individual fieldcraft (IFC), marksmanship, standard obstacle course (SOC), hand-grenade throwing, bayonet fighting, swimming, & drill. These basic soldiering skills are taught by a Training Cadre staff.

Mono intakes don't really draw the public's respect, but servicemen know they form the main body of the combat units. Most Tekong-trained troops would wind up joining them sooner or later, following vocational training or leadership-plus-vocational courses. Thus it's the latter newcomers who'll have to assimilate into the unit culture, compared to the Hokkien peng already with the Formation for at least 6 months.

The issue here is that I may be going on to skip my Os and instead go into a specialize education which I'm thinking won't be recognise or recorded by the government.

Is there a recognizable certificate or diploma obtainable? The NSPC will record it, even as the civil service may dismiss it for not being accredited. One of my ex-recruits was an old-style apprentice when he was called up, as I recall, & he ended up with the mono intake.

Hmm, any suggestions as to how to learn it then?

FWIW The SAF used only about 30% of the drill commands I learnt as a NPCC cadet. There's no overt NSF ambitions when it comes to drill, unless you get posted to SAFPU (military police). Today's recruits are also a lot savvier & quick-learners than the '70s counterparts, which in turn had comparatively more uneducated/unmotivated drifters.

The NSF drill emphasis is little more on being "functional"; the bigger task is to get everybody appropriately coordinated in action! ~lol~ FYI There's only something like 10-14 such Malay commands for regular use - pertaining to stance, direction, march/stop & rifle gestures. Hmmm, is there a sticky thread for these?